250 grainers in the whelen?

[jhalcott]

I need some 35 whelen loads using 250 grain cast (lyman 358318) and IMR 4831, Imr 4064 and IMR3031.I have these powders on hand. I have this mold and the 359315(205). I'm going to Maine deer hunting in November and really want to use the 250 gr bullet.  TIA

[Sky C.]

Just pulled and re-read an article from the July 2000 issue of "Rifle" magazine by J. Haviland.  He worked with the LY 358318 in the Whelen & got best results using 42 grs. BL-C(2) for 1955 fps with AC WW alloy, bullet dropped at .3585 inch & he used SPG lube.  Got groups running 1.6" at 100 with his Reminton 700 (16 twist bbl).  Took a nice bull elk with the load.  

He also noted that he'd not had a chance to chrono the load but 40 grs. Varget was giving very good accuracy too.  Other powders had grouped at 4"+ range so there was definitely a preference for what load worked in his rifle.

I've had good luch with the .348 Winchester using H-4831, AA-3100, and RL-19 for full power CB loads with a 245gr. gc bullet.  Loads for the .348 & the .35 Whelen are very nearly the same in terms of charge weights, velocities, and pressures.  I'd expect these powders to do well in the .35 Whelen as well.


Best regards-

Sky C.

[jhalcott]

thanks Sky. I went to the range today and tried some 4064 and 3031 loads.Could only use the 50 yard range because of on going work. The 4064 loads were ok but had some fliers groups of 2" and less excluding fliers. The 3031 loads were stout and groups? were 4" plus. The brass was old and I used my last box of ww STAYNLESS primers. So I'm going to try again with fresh brass and new primers. 40-41 & 42 gr /imr 4064 and hope I find the secret load.

[Sky C.]

I've been putting together a spreadsheet of loads for the .35 Whelen gathered from various loading manuals with all the pertinent data as well as comments about what loads have shown best accuracy etc.  It's in MS Excel format.  If you want - I can e-mail a copy for your reference.

Best regards-

Sky C.

[Lee S. Forsberg]

I shoot the 35 WIMP and the 375 IMPW and have had good results with H380 in the 375 with 270 gr. Just about to try it in the 35 with a 250 gr. bullet. Has anyone tried H380 in 35W? Thanks

[jhalcott]

i woud appreciate the info Sky. I thought I posted this on saturday, but don't see it?
  jhalcott@comcast.net

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

.35 WIMP...

What an unfortunate acronym for the Whelen Improved.

[Lee S. Forsberg]

.35 WIMP...

What an unfortunate acronym for the Whelen Improved.

You are absolutely right! I will have to be more careful about what I write. Sorry about that.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Can any of you folks tell me about using RL-19 in the .35 Whelen?

I find data for powders with similar burn rates in the Whelen and heavy bullets.  And I hear great things said about RL-15 used in the Whelen.  But I can't find data using RL-19 in the Whelen.

I've been playing with a 280 cast bullet and RL-15, the combination also has little data.  I worked up from 52 to 55 grains.  The 52 grain load showed the most promise.  By the time I got to 55 grains of RL-15 the groups were continually growing bigger, so I shot the first of the 55 grain charges over a chronograph (my set-up at the time did not allow me to shoot at the paper target and over the chronograph at the same time).  My jaw dropped when I saw 2606 fps!  I quit for the day and pulled those bullets.  

Next I loaded up some with 52 grains again and shot those over the chronograph.  The 52 grain charge averaged 2426 fps!  There were no visible signs in the brass of excessive pressure.  Extraction was easy.  Primers are rounded.  The group at 100 yards with the 52 grain charge was 1.6".  I think it can do better than that since my rest was far from ideal.

[ron haralson]

I shot a 350 rem mag for 15 yrs or so with 358318, a very heavy rifle for cast bullet bench rest. THe best load I found was 43gr 4320 which produced 2000fps and 100yd 5 shot groups under 1" most of the time. 358315 wasn't as good. I used linotype for bullets(you could get it then) Hornaday gas checks and lubricated with Esso Unirex grease.
There were no pressure indicaters, and I would expect 35 Whelan loads to be very close to the same.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Ron,

Was your 43 grain load a max load or near max?  Or was that a reduced load to work specifically for cast bullets?

The reason I ask is because I'm doing things a little different in that I'm paper-patching these cast bullets (they're .350" as-cast and without lube grooves).  The paper prevents the leading that limits velocity in typical cast bullets, and also allows the use of softer alloys making them practical game-getters.  

I would not expect 43 grains of IMR4320 to be max charge for a 250 grain bullet, since the burn rate is comparable to RL-15 which has a 59.5 grain max for 250 grainers in the Whelen.  Unless the powder capacity of the .350 RM is that much less than the Whelen.

[ron haralson]

It was a reduced load - max for cast bullets was 47gr and for jacketted was 57gr from Lyman manual 45th edition.

[jhalcott]

the IMR3031 loads I tried today were NOT the ones I want to hunt with! hundred yard 3 shot groups were in the 5 to 8 inch range,many shots either keyholed or were off the paper! At least the 14" 35 rem with 358315's and 34.5 /3031 shot great.3 shots in 2 1/4 ".

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

jhalcott,

I'm wondering with that 1:16" pitch if you don't get enough spin at cast bullet velocities.

If you're interested in taking deer with a home-made bullet you might try paper-patching the same bullet you're working with.

People who are really into paper-patching get special molds that are a little smaller diameter to make room for paper.  But, if you just want to try it out, the good news is you don't need ANY special equipment except paper that is 25% cotton.

Go to an office supply store and look for drafter's vellum, it's thin and strong (25% cotton).  Next cast up a bunch of bullets with the softest alloy you can find.  If using WW, just anneal them in the oven don't quench 'em.  Cut out a bunch of patches from the vellum using a jig made from an old phone card (shaped like a parallelogram).  Dampen the patches on a sponge, roll 'em round a bullet, twist the excess paper at the base, set aside to dry.  Run dried bullets through sizer (you can size bullets prior to patching, then size 'em again with patches, this reduces torn patches).  Clip off twisted paper tails.  Load using regular jacketed bullet data, but bell case mouth, and use only enough crimp to take out the bell or crimp on crimp groove only.

With pure lead, you are limited to about 2200 fps max velocity as the atmosphere and twist can tear apart the bullet.  Slightly harder alloys can be taken up much higher.  

The advantage of paper-patching is you can use soft, pure lead at linotype velocities and beyond without leading.  This might get you the spin necessary to stabilize the bullets.

[jhalcott]

hey black jack,paper patching is way down on my favorites to do list! Did I mention that I'm basically lazy?? This barrel is a 1/14 twist from E R shaw. It groups jacketed bullets into an inch IF I do my part.and use correct loads. I'm going to try the 200 gr 358315 bullet that shoots so well in my 14" 35 rem t/c. Once i have 1 good hunting load, I will look for a better one. I was hoping to use the heavier bullet for the big deer in Maine,but I think a 200 grain .35 will do fine. I've used 140's in the 260 REM!? They WERE jacketed though. I'm looking for the big lyman 358009(280-290 grain), thinking bigger is better, also.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I realize paper-patching sounds like a royal pain.  But hey, the other weekend it was a beautiful sunny day.  I sat at the picnic table wrapping bullets, drinking beer, and watching my son shoot the pellet gun.  I had a wonderful time.

The other thing is, with 280 grain Whelens, I don't have to patch that many.  Less than a box a week is about all I can stand.

Now paper-patching for a .357 magnum (to be shot out of a lever action) that was crazy.  All that work wrapping bullets, and "ffft" they're shot up just like that, and my shoulder didn't even know it shot a gun.