Thoughts on .243 bullets for deer hunting

[gt2003]

My 9 year old is going deer hunting with me tomorrow.  He's been shooting a borrowed NEF .243 single shot rifle with scope and shooting it quite well.  I hear differing opinions on what type of bullet to shoot, some say the PSP's are fine, others say you better go with some type of polymer/plastic tipped bullet.  I did go out and buy a box of the winchester ballistic silvertips for the hunt.  Was this a wise choice or did I just give into the hype?  I want to do everything I can to ensure this hunt is successful.  I can't imagine having my son place a qulaity shot on a deer and then not be able to find it.  Please give me your thoughts.  Thanks, Greg

[tvc15]

Go with the 100 grn. nosler partition. Hard to beat. good luck, TVC15

[Mac11700]

My 9 year old is going deer hunting with me tomorrow.  He's been shooting a borrowed NEF .243 single shot rifle with scope and shooting it quite well.  I hear differing opinions on what type of bullet to shoot, some say the PSP's are fine, others say you better go with some type of polymer/plastic tipped bullet. I did go out and buy a box of the winchester ballistic silvertips for the hunt.  Was this a wise choice or did I just give into the hype?  I want to do everything I can to ensure this hunt is successful.  I can't imagine having my son place a qulaity shot on a deer and then not be able to find it.  Please give me your thoughts.  Thanks, Greg

I am assuming(and hate to do this) ..you bought some of the factory Winchester Supreme Ammo..so..I'm curious if you bought the heavier 95 grain bullets...if so..the bullet will work just fine for whitetails the lighter weight bullets are for varmints...and state this on the box......if you are reloading..I would try the 95gr. CT Ballistic tip..or if you wanted a stonger bullet...buy some of the 95 grain Partitions and try them....I have gotten my best accuracy with the Winchesters black Lubalox bullets from a perfectly clean bore...and it took a couple shots to settle down..Another good choice...would be some of the Federal Fusion ammo with the 95 grain bullet..they have gotten some good results from it as well..

Mac

[Fred M]

Assuming a 9 year old would not try to shoot anything at long ranges,
and you looking for a bullet you are a hand loader.

Under these conditions I would choose a 105 gr Speer R.N. at a reduced velocity with about 41.0gr of H4831 at about 2600 ft.

This will be more than adequate for deer out to 150 yards aimed to brake
the shoulder bones to drop the deer. This bullet provides great expansion with minimal meat destruction.

[muzzleblast525]

Let us know how the hunt went.....

By the way, several guys load 95 grain bullets for the .243, and get excellent results....I shot a deer last year with a .243, using the 100 PSP and she dropped like a rock....DRT.....

[quickdtoo]

I think the choice of bullets and shot placement for the .243 is a little more critical, non premium unbonded bullets shouldn't be placed thru the shoulder, they should be placed just behind the shoulder thru the lungs....bonded bullets probably work best thru the shoulder. This is just my opinion based on a lot of reading of those that have actually used the .243 on deer, I've never shot any game with mine yet. Lightly constructed bullets in the .243 tend to blow up and I've seen that happen myself when my hunting partner shot a small buck straight on in the brisket from 30yds, it knocked the deer right over backwards, then it got up and ran off never to be found with no blood trail. We looked for it for 2 days and never found it. :? I don't know for sure what ammo he was using, seems to me it was winchester, but I know it wasn't a premium load since it was many years ago and there weren't many around then and he isn't one to spend lots on factory ammo and didn't handload.

[Fred M]

Quick.
The 105gr Speer RN is not a lightly constructed bullet. I has been around for a long time. It stays together and punch through a deer shoulder. Ideal for short ranges and in the woods.

It is specifically designed for the HV of the 243 and does not fragment. I used that bullet myself years ago. Speer makes very good conventional bullets. Give them a try, and they shoot well in most 243's.

Like you said the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I really don't care what kind of bullet the man is using. My opinion is just what I would use, it is based on peronal use of this bullet. I feel the kid has the best chance with that bullet at short range. I have nothing against bonded bullets. But as you know I have no use for a 243 for myself.

[Mac11700]

I didn't know Speer ever made a 105 grain round nose for the 243 ? Where can a person get these at?

All the different talk on handloads...and we don't even know if that is what he's using for it...like I said earlier...I hate assuming anything...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

Fred, all I found was the #1229 105gr SP Spitzer, no RN....

[Fred M]

Mac
 Speer #1223 105gr  RN
 Speer #1229 105 gr SP

Have not used any for a long time and doubt I will ever again.. You have to check with Speer.

I told the man what I would use, what he does is his own baby. My advise is unsolicited. I said so in my post. See if I can ring them up on the net.

[Fred M]

Looks like they quit making this bullet, what a shame. Never used the 105 Spitzer.

[Mac11700]

What a bummer...looks like it would have been a good one..

Mac

[Fred M]

Well the Speer 105 Spitzer @ 1.084 L would not work in the Handi 1-10 twist.
To use this bullet you would need a 1-9 twist at 2850 ft/sec minimum speed. 3000 ft be better. While 105 RN at 0.953 length works well in a 1-10 twist at 2600 ft/sec.

Yes that 105grRN was a good bullet, I still got a few sitting around somewhere.

[Norseman112]

I wish handi would make barrels for .243 and .223 in 1 and 9 twist  :?
even though my rifles shoot lighter bullets good.


Norse

[35Rem]

I'm not a big fan of Winchester's Ballistic Silvertip for big game.  I've heard of lost deer with the 243.  I had a 168gr in 308 Win Blow Up on a smallish doe at 100 yards.  I quit using them.  
I would recommend anything around 100 grains (95, 100 or 105).  The Pointed Soft Points seem to work fine.  
Like Quick said, go for the lungs.  You really want an exit wound with the 6mm caliber bullets, so you have ANY kind of blood trail.  Don't expect much blood to come out of a 6mm hole, if it didn't exit.  Can be a real bummer for a new hunter to lose a deer because you couldn't find it.

Most of all, GOOD LUCK!

[cntryboy1289]

First off, this is my first post here, wanted to say hey to everyone.  I like this particular bullet and I load it and shoot it all the time except I have loaded the barnes bullets as well.

I load these bullets for me and my son to use.  They hold up very well and do what is asked of them.  We have taken 5 deer with them over the last two years.  I also load the 85 gr Barnes TSX and they do quite well also.  Using the 100 gr bullets is fine if that is what you want to use, but the 85 and 95 grain bullets as long as you shoot the lungs does quite well.  I have taken shoulder shots using both bullets and the bullet doesn't make it out the far shoulder, but what is in between them is jellied up and you can run your hand into it.  

I would tell your son to make sure he lines up behind the front shoulder with these loads, but even if he hits the shoulder, I wouldn't think the deer would go very far, mine sure haven't.  Good luck to you and your son.  I don't think you will have a problem with these.

[superhornet]

If one is handloading for the .243, the Hornady Interlock 100 grain Round Nose bullet  on top of Varget is ideal for whitetail.  Venison steak, grits and gravy on time every time.....IMHO

[Fred M]

superhornet.
Yes I agree with the 100 gr RN Hornady Interlock, I never tried them but the should be very close to the now discontinued Speer 105 gr RN. A good bullet for the woods and short range.

[songdog]

as for my personal experience, i have taken at least six deer, two whitetail in texas and four mulies here in colorado, and the winchester silvertip ballistic 95 grain has proven itself over and over.  i do aim just behind the shoulder and buck or doe, i have yet to have one run more than thirty yards.  you have heard some great input from alot of guys on this forum that have been around much longer than i, so i'm only telling you how these bullets have performed for me.  good luck.

[gt2003]

Thanks to everyone for their input.  Unfortunately we saw no deer last night.  However, I did instruct my son to shoot just behind the front shoulder, not into it.  And, as someone asked, I did buy the 95 grain ballistic silvertips.  It's a while until rifle season but I'm assuming that my kiddo will want to muzzleload hunt also.  I'm continuing to preach double lung shots and I'm continuing to have him practice to where he is comfortable.  I will post results of muzzleloader and rifle season if he is able to connect.  Thanks everyone for all the great input.  I really appreciate it.  Thanks, Greg

[youngbdv]

gt2003                   You could do a web search for ultimate .243 or udarrell.com lots of info.  Bump

[Paul5388]

Fred,

I thought the main purpose for the 105 RN was to get a heavier bullet to shoot in the .244 Rem with its slow twist ( 1 in 12") barrel.  Of course, I don't even find it listed until Speer #10 and one would think it would have been available in Speer #7 and #8 if my thought was correct.  :roll:

[Fred M]

Paul
You are absolutely right. But they also shot well in any 243.  I used them in the 240 PSP. Yes they are listed in #5 #7 and #8 Speer manuals. Only old timers like me would have any manuals like that. I was looking for them in my shop. I thought I had some left. I did not know they quit making them.

They were good to shoot at close range in a blind on a runway. But out here in the west I had no more use for them.  Its been a long time since I shot a deer with a 6mm bullet. The last one was a 243AI which made a big mess on a deer.

[PEPAW]

My .243 barrel simply would not group.   But my old bolt 700 has accounted for lots of deer and hogs with 100 soft points.   No problem on simple lung shots.

pepaw

[FirstFreedom]

Quick, what is an example of a "non-premium un-bonded bullet"?  For example, I plan on using the 95 gr federal fusion - are you calling something like this non-premium, and thus I'm better off not shooting at the shoulder bone?  Thanks.

[quickdtoo]

Dunno about the Fusion yet, it's untested by hunters. It falls in the non-premium class as far as price goes, and for all intents and purposes is a "plated" bullet which has a dim track record in the Rainier bullet line. But reports are that it will work as well as any bonded bullet and they shoot excellent in my .30-30 and .243 Ultra and Mac's '06. Give em a shot and see what happens, they're supposed to be a great bullet according to Federal and one review I've read on them. :wink:

As far as unbonded bullets, the Rem Core-lokt, Sierra Game King, Nosler Ballistic Tip are all non-premium unbonded.

EDIT:

Here's a link to a review of Fusion ammo, thanks go to Mac for finding it....

http://www.gunsandhunting.com/newmonthly.html

[Joel]

I've shot 18 deer with the 6mm in my Ruger #1 over the years, before switching over mostly to the 45/70....17 were shot with either Nosler's old 100 gr semi-spitzer partions or the newer 100 gr partitions.  All were shot at 100 yds or less with the bullets starting out at 3200 fps....all were lung shot, and none ever hardly moved.  Meat destruction was pretty well non-existant.  The 18th deer was a huge 10 point that was shot two years ago.The cartridge was a Remington factory loaded 100 gr corelockt.  First bullet hit him at 25 yds; going first through his front knee joint and then into his lungs.  Took off running, and I sort of relaxed figuring, based on previous performance of the Nosler's he wouldn't go far.  Walked down to where I'd shot him, and couldn't even find a speck of blood....I knew I'd hit him, 'cause he did that sort of hump thing they do when hit.  Start walking in the direction he'd run, and saw him sitting with his head up, about 150 yds from where he'd been shot.  I flat HATE that!!.  Walked up to him, and he got to his feet and he tried to run...shot him in the lungs again.  He lay down and continued to breathe.  Walked up to him and shot him in the head...he finally gave up.  Not ONE of those bullets expanded.  Personal lesson learned:  (a) he was the first deer I ever shot with factory ammo...never again.(b) Buy the best performing components out there....I'd rather pay the price of a Nosler, than the price of watching a grand animal suffer and die slow.  I'm taking one of the young guys from work out hunting for his first time(dad doesn't hunt).  He'll be carrying the Ruger with the Nosler Handloads.  I'll stick to my 45/70 with 400 gr Speers at 1750 fps.  As a postscript, I did load those 105's years ago when I first got the rifle, but only shot them at the range.  They were quite accurate in my Ruger.  Always meant to try them on game, but never got to it.

[Thebear_78]

I have shot a truckload of michigan whitetails from 70-280 yards that weighed from 110-175lbs dressed with the Sierra Gameking 100gr SBT either in handloads or federal premium loadings.  Always worked like a charm.  It broke both shoulders on several of them.

[lgm270]

Joel: Your experience with Nosler bullets mirrors my own.  They never let me down and I never use anything else on game. My load of choice is the 130 Nosler Part in my .270 WCF.  Much as I admire your choice of bullets and much as I respect your experience, sportsmanship and obvious skill, I have no use for the .243 Win for deer hunting.  

I have never used one, in large part because of the dismal failures I've seen from this overrated underpowered round when used by other guys who hunted with me over the years.  I can recall half a dozen or so really bad experiences of other hunters who used the .243 on mule deer.  One of these hunters was my life long friend and compadre who was an incorrigible gun trader. Over his long hunting career, he used just about every  modern caliber including  the .243 Win, 257 Robts, 25-06 Rem, 7x57 Mauser,  7mm Rem Mag, 30-06 Springfield, .308 Win, and finally he settled on the .300 Win Mag.  He got a deal on a beautiful custom rifle in  .300 Win Mag and settled on that round because he loved that rifle so much.  He was also impressed with the fact that he never had to chase cripples when he used it.

Unfortunately,  he also went through the .243 Winchester phase too.   Thank God he got over  his .243 fever after only one hunting season.  We hunted several states together that year.  Every deer he shot on three hunts ran off wounded and we spent days tracking them down, sometimes without success.  After days of that, I told him to either get a better rifle or find someone else to hunt with. Thank God he took me seriously.  He swapped off his .243 at the next gun show. I forget what he got, but it was one of the other, more powerful rounds that he used with such success that left no cripples.   This guy was a handloader, an expert hunter, and a great shot.  He could (and did) shoot circles around me as a general rule.  The only thing I ever had over him was the fact that he never had to help me chase down a cripple because I always used my .270 WCF with Nosler partitions and never succumbed to the temptation to use a .243 Win for mule deer.

The .243 is simply not a reliable deer round.  I know there are a cult of guys who love it and who are successful with it, but  I have seen too many failures with it to ever rely on it myself.  I have noticed that the guys who are successful with the .243 are handloaders who use Nosler partitions and who are expert hunters and shots.  Well to each his own.

[Paul5388]

I suppose "the best" is always in the eye of the beholder and I don't know that 1940's technology, like the partition, is best.  It may well be that 1970's technology, like the solid based bullet, is actually better.  

Of course, we will always have to wonder why Nosler makes a .243" partition, if they can't and don't work.  That's the conclusion that has to be reached, if the .243 Win is always a failure and only wounds deer sized game.

One never knows until someone gets out of the "if it works, don't fix it" mentality, or is it the "it can't work, so don't try to fix it" mentality?

The Nosler 90 gr or 95 gr solid base .243" should work just fine on deer sized game.

The cut away American Rifleman just published of the Fusion sure looks like some heavy duty plating.  :roll:

BTW, did I mention that the only reason I have a .243 Win is because NEF doesn't make the Handi in 6mm Rem?