41-44 Mag.?

[Joe Kool]

I was just wondering what kind of a velocity gain could be had by necking a 44 magnum case to 41 caliber? A 25 or 30 degree shoulder could be used, so one pass through the full length sizing die would form the case, no need for a special form die. A 41mag. contender barrel could easily be reamed to the 41-44 mag. Does anyone know if such a cartridge exists? I've never heard of one.  

[Javelina]

Joe Kool,

You are describing the excellent and hard-hitting 41 GNR by Gary Reeder (the 44 Mag necked down to 41 caliber).  I shoot the next version up which is the 41 GNR #2 which is the 445 SuperMag necked down to 41 caliber (13" Braked SS Contender Barrel).  Gary says that the 41 GNR puts out the Sierra 170 grain bullet at 2,100 fps from an eight inch test barrel.  

Check the following URL for more details:  http://www.reedercustomguns.com/tc/cartridges.htm

Be prepared to wait for your barrel, but it's worth every minute of time spent agonizing over your new purchase.  Dies for his wildcats are a bit pricey, but again, worth every penny in my opinion.  I hope this helps.

Good shooting,

Javelina

[Joe Kool]

Javelina, thanks for the info. I like the looks of the 41 GRN #2. The longer neck would be better for cast bullets, because the gas check would be contained in the neck, not hanging in the powder space. Cast bullets will lose accuracy if the gas check is seated completly in the powder space. Gary Reeder seems to push the idea of light bullets at high velocity. I've tried light bullets at high velocity in various calibers, on white tail deer, and found they don't kill as well as a standard weight or a heavy weight bullet at lower velocity. I think in the 41GRN #2, an 250-280 gr. cast bullet, in a 10" barrel, would be the ticket. What loads do you use in your 41GRN #2?  

[Javelina]

Joe Kool,

I have no personal experience with other GNR calibers, but I can testify that a 41 GNR #2 throwing a 170 grain Sierra bullet out at 2,350 fps (and I load down three grains from Gary Reeder's suggested max loads) will absolutely devastate anything you shoot with it.  The hydrostatic shock is tremendous and has to be seen to be believed.  I haven't even bothered to work up loads based on 210 grain 41 caliber bullets having seen what happens with the Sierra 170's.  My current 41 GNR #2 is a 13" Reeder barrel with his patented brake.  I have a good friend who's eight year old son loves to shoot it since it's so tame with the brake.

The only thing I will do now as far as load development is increase the powder charge a grain at a time from 33.0 grains of W296 with Sierra 170's (safe in my gun only - use good and widely accepted load development practices, logic and good judgment for your own load development).  I estimate that I will end up some where between 2,500 and 2,600 fps when I increase to Gary Reeder's published load data of 36.0 grains of W296 which is MAXIMUM in his test barrel.  Do the math computations for both energy figures and the Taylor Knockdown Index (TKI), you will be amazed!  The 41 GNR #2 delivers about 50" higher TKI than a 270 Winchester from my 13" barreled Contender!  My current SS barrel is a real fire-breather the way it is in my Contender, but I am ordering a 15" SS Encore version of the 41 GNR #2 - I expect it to reach around 2,700 to 2,800 fps with Sierra 41 caliber 170's - that's what I call KNOCKDOWN!

I can highly recommend the 41 GNR #2 to you, but Gary Reeder also has the 410 GNR which is based on the 454 Casull case, which fits better into revolvers, as well as the 41 GNR which is the 44 Magnum case necked down to 41 caliber.  Reeder told me that the 41 GNR #2 has the velocity advantage in the longer barrels over the 410 GNR by about 100 fps even though the case volumes are virtually the same (just different shapes).

I hope this information is helpful.  Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Javelina

[Joe Kool]

Javelina, Have you shot any deer or other game with this load? What concerns me is that the 170 gr Sierra is a hollow point bullet designed for velocities up to 1500 fps.. In my experince, hollow point pistol bullets at 2300 fps act like varmint bullets, disintegrating on contact. I once loaded Winchester 158 gr. .357" hollow points in a 35 Remington to about 2150 fps, to shoot ground hogs. The resaults were spectacular. My friend shot a ground hog at about 80 yds. that was standing, facing us. There was a gaint red explosion. When we got to the spot where the ground hog was, only his rear feet and tail were left. There was little bits of flesh and bone in a 50 circle around where the ground hog once stood. Great for varmints, but I wouldn't want to use this load on deer. I think a 220-250 gr. cast bullet would be better then the 170 gr. Sierra hollow point on deer and larger game. The 210 gr. XTP Hornady may be a good bullet to try.

[Javelina]

Joe Kool,

I have not shot large game with the 41 GNR #2, but I have fired 170 grain Sierras going 2,350 fps at a large piece of 3/8" iron plating at about 20 yards.  The result was complete penetration, the bullet did not come apart.

The bullet's terminal performance on iron plating is most probably somewhat different than what might be expected on a larger game animal.  I would suggest shooting your intended bullet into wet newsprint to approximate terminal bullet performance - beyond that, until one of us tries it on a larger game animal, we're probably going to just be wondering.  My personal opinion is that I would not hesitate to use the Sierra 170 on animals to 1,000 pounds or so.

An excellent resource would be Gary Reeder himself - he's a heck of a nice guy and will give you the straight answers you want.  He has used all of his wildcats extensively with a full range of bullet weights in Africa on many occasions.  My feeling is that he would know more about what you want to know than anyone, and he is certainly willing to share his knowledge and experience for the price of a phone call or the time taken for an email message.  Also, the folks in his shop are highly experienced in shooting the Reeder wildcats and could help you out a lot. You can email him a question at "Ask Reeder Custom Guns," http://disc.server.com/Indices/183178.html (he generally answers in 24-48 hours in a public forum) or you can call him at 928-527-4100 or 928-526-3313 at his shop.

I hope this helps.

Javelina