Poll

Hunting practice for general rifle

Practice with near to life size animal targets at your known hunting yardage
11 (42.3%)
Only practice with bullseye targets at 100 or less yards regardless of known hunting yardage
14 (53.8%)
Only practice with 1 gal milk jugs at 50 yards and call it good
0 (0%)
Just don't care, I'll risk the long shot anyway
1 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Voting closed: October 17, 2005, 06:05:58 PM

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Offline Cottonwood

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« on: October 17, 2005, 06:05:58 PM »
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 06:19:14 PM »
None of the above..

I'll shoot at grid targets and full size animal targets at various ranges out to 600 yards to see and adjust for bullet drop and wind drift,then to practice on the game at the same distances....

Mac
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Offline tcman

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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 06:38:29 PM »
None of the above either.

I do quite a bit of target practice at a know 100 yards, then pick small light colored rocks out at various distances, as well as shooting Prairie Dogs off hand and varied distances.

That's why I also carry a 25-06 with 100 grain bullets for all my big game hunting....fast and flat
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Offline mt3030

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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 09:03:13 PM »
None of the above.
I use grid type targets at 100 yds to test and chose my load. I then adjust my scope to move the POI to when I want it, usually 2 to 2.5 high, depending on caliber, load and intended game. When happy with this, I place targets at 200 and 300 yds to recheck my load performance. If happy, now I practice with shooting positions until I'm comfotable with my gear and load. At this point, I quite tinkering and go kill something.
I think that if your know where your bullet is going and your are acquainted with the games anatomy, there is no need for life sized targets, steel, cardboard or paper. But it is a fine exercise for those that want to invest the time.

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Offline tallyho

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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 10:23:58 PM »
I can only concur with, and ditto mt3030 except for the ...
Quote
... and go kill something


I haven't hunted for the last 4 years, but when I did (and do again) I'll be quite willing to re-insert as appropriate. I still tend to sight in and 'practice' the same way, even without actually going hunting.

Cheers
Kerry
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Offline NONYA

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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 11:10:30 PM »
I zero at 100 yards and then shoot 100 yard incriments out to 600 to learn the rifles drop.If you learn your rifle and shoot one load long range shooting isnt a guessing game.
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Offline MtJerry

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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2005, 04:27:08 AM »
None of the above ....

The article by Marshal Stanton is a good one!

I used to own a Ruger M77 bolt gun (.270) that would shoot consistent .5" groups at 100 and 1" groups at 200 yards.  Most of my shots on deer and elk were at 200 to 300 yards.

Year before last I decided to put the "hunt" back into my hunting and sold that fine bolt gun and now only hunt with single shots.  My personal max ranges are below.  These have been selected due to my confidence with each and the handloads that I create for them.

45-70  -  200 yards
.270   -  300 yards
445 Super Mag  -  not currently used for hunting.  Still in load development.
44mag (Blackhawk)  -  75 yards

I think this topic is a good one to discuss.  Every huntere should know what his limits are with his firearm.
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2005, 04:39:41 AM »
Most people don't understand.  What you do at the bench means nothing when your in the field... in most cases, your getting one cold shot.

MtJerry, I fully agree with you.  My hunting rifle is an un-scoped single shot rifle.  Although not an H&R Handi-Rifle, it is still a single shot and my maximum range will be at 200 yards.

Many can not understand putting the real hunt back into hunting.  I don't hold everyone to my standard of hunting, but I feel I get alot more out of the way I do hunt.

Quote
Only practice with bullseye targets at 100 or less yards regardless of known hunting yardage


Okay so I forgot to put "grid" with the bullseye.  Actually I ment this type of bullseye target.  Don't be so technical.... bullseye, grid target with red dot in the center.  

I don't shoot at bullseyes or grids for hunting practice.
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Offline NONYA

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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2005, 04:48:03 AM »
I hear lots of people using that term very loosly,if you really want to put the hunt back in hunting and you feel like long range shooters are unsporting why not put that rifle or pistol away and pick up a bow,is your 100 yard gun any more sporting than one that shoots 400?No and anyone who thinks they are more of a sportsman by limiting themselves to short range firearms needs to give bowhunting a try and find out what its reall y like to challenge yourself,take my word for it you wont regret it!It not only adds a whole new aspect to your hunting but it doubles the amount of time you can spend in the field!
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Offline bajabill

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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2005, 04:59:51 AM »
none of the above

I just dont care, I cant see deer more than 100 yds away anyway.  I shoot deer at 30-60 yards and dont consider any of my shooting to be practice for field service.

If I wanted to "practice", I would climb into my stand and shoot various items within my range, and even some moving targets.  With winter coats, gloves,
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Offline mt3030

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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2005, 05:11:47 AM »
Montanan,
I think you don't understand the nature of your poll. Your 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices are somewhat condesending and insulting to other shooters and hunters. Your further comments are insinuating that your way is somehow superior to others. Most shooters, I think, would feel that what they do at the bench is very important. Lets be practical. If you don't test and carefully choose you load, either factory or handload, and properly sight in you rifle first, you have no business in the field. Let's not start this "My way is the only way" game. We've had those threads before. (about turkey hunting was a good one). Yes, I'm sure we all know that the first shot from a cold barrel is the most important, and probably most of us on this forum use a single shoot.

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Offline NONYA

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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2005, 05:55:37 AM »
mt3030 you are absolutly right,I get sick of hearing people preaching about how much more sportsman like thier method of hunting is,if you are hunting free ranging animals its a challenge with any weapon,I bow hunt right up until I can pick up a rifle and I dont consider a 400 yard shot any less sporting than a 50 yard shot,it takes alot more dedication and practice to make clean killing shots at long ranges than it does short ones.Its all a matter of personal preference,if you enjoy it and it feels right to you its great,dont look down at others with some kind of superior complex.Any method of hunting free ranging animals is OK in my book,as long as I can go along..
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2005, 06:43:36 AM »
Quote from: mt3030
Montanan,
I think you don't understand the nature of your poll. Your 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices are somewhat condesending and insulting to other shooters and hunters. Your further comments are insinuating that your way is somehow superior to others.


Re-read what I said here:  I don't hold everyone to my standard of hunting, but I feel I get alot more out of the way I do hunt.

And that is what I mean, I'm sorry if you feel it was condensating... too many here carry their feelings out on their keyboards.

Last year I took a extremely long shot at an elk, I was admonished by Tim for taking such a such and called un-ethical.  Un-ethical by whos standards?  If Nanya wants to take a 400 yard shot at an elk, that is fine as I'm sure he has practiced for that shot many times.

The poll was not designed to be critical of anyone here.  Actually I thought of it, when thinking about someone I personally know who only sights his guns in at 25 yds and calls it good, and then wonders why he misses game.

The question poll was not ment to be insulting as neither were my comments.
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Offline NONYA

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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2005, 07:04:30 AM »
6" over the tip of the shoulder,with the drop it will hit center shoulder and brake one or bolth shoulders,if its a little low it will be a vital shot,if its a bit high it will break the spine and drop him in his tracks...
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Offline bajabill

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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2005, 07:17:02 AM »
Is your guess as to why your friend misses his target from his lack of practice or equipment that is not properly sighted in.

My feeling about hunting is that the average hunter has sufficent marksmanship skills to take game, without constant practice.  Or, perhaps, I am around a more talented pool of individuals than other people who frequent hunting/gun forums.  The average hunter however, is not as good as they can be if they truly practiced, but they are good enough.  Now, for those groups of hunters who routinely take shots over 150 yards, I may change my statement. One other qualification, Im not talking about the typical 15 year old, they are not the average.
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2005, 07:17:43 AM »
Jon, my admonishment was tempered after you explained a little more in detail on the long shot you attempted... :wink:

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=48010&highlight=#48010

As far as the poll is concerned, I'm with most of the other fellas here in that I sight-in at 100yds to give me an expected MPBR for the caliber I'm shooting, then shoot at 200yds and 300yds to see where the impacts occur just so I know for sure. Shooting at the longer ranges also gives me an idea of what the wind is going to do with the POI with the longer shots since field conditions are rarely ideal. In almost 50yrs of hunting, I've only taken a couple shots at big game over 125yds, the longest and only one at about 350yds in a clearcut at a buck with a scoped .308 win BLR. Most have been 50-125yds.
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Offline bigE

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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2005, 07:42:44 AM »
My opinion is that practically, there is no comparison between practice and hunting.  I only hunt whitetail deer, that's all we have other than hogs, but the same applies to them or any game.  "Practice" will help you familiarize yourself with your gun, but there are so many variables that are different between the two sports.

Paper is paper no mater where you hang it.  It will give you the same presentation time and time again.  I happen to live in a state that enjoys one of the longest hunting seasons in the country.   If I only hunted half of the days allowed and only saw 25 deer a day, I could see about 800 deer in a season.  Every one of them presents itself different,  angles,  ranges, sizes............

So I propose, the only practice for hunting is hunting.

Most of my "Practice" is at long range because thats where I like to shoot.
Most of my hunting is done at less than 200 yards.  In the past 15 years, I have only killed 2 deer over 200 yards. The terrain in my area, most of the time, will not let me hunt at long range.

FWIW

E
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Offline R.W.Dale

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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2005, 07:43:41 AM »
None of the above. I get a rifle well sighted in off the bench then I "practice" by shooting 100yd clay pigeons offhanded. I pass on shots over 300yds so for me extended range shooting practice isn't neccacary. I think offhanded shooting practice is much more important than a lot of people realize.
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2005, 08:06:31 AM »
Quote
Most people don't understand. What you do at the bench means nothing when your in the field... in most cases, your getting one cold shot.
 
 
While I understand you sentiment on this..I do not agree on your wording..to some..it means everything...because your statement is not true for everyone...while some may be able to site their rifles in for their limited ranges of hunting with an open sited or scoped rifle from a feild position.. others can't..and the best way to do this is off a study shooting bench..this should take the guess work out of " who's at fault...me or the rifle"...provided that person has the capability of sighting in their weapon.Then they should continue their benchshooting untill they have learned how to shoot accurately with their rifle.Rushing out to shoot from various feild positions before learning how the rifle shoots to begin with isn't really a good teaching tool...they need to know what to expect from their choosen rifle/load combination without guessing if they were at fault or not...
 
Learning to shoot long ranges off hand or unsupported..is a challenge unto itself..and best done with an accurately sighted in rifle either open sited or scoped...and if one practices enough from the bench correctly...then this person has still learned(or at least should have) learned his weapon...where it's shooting...trigger pull,site aquisition,scope movement...and so on..to have become a somewhat better marksman than just starting out...this is from the familiarity of using his weapon..Granted...not all bench shooters are great field shots...but I would wager they are more accurate in most type hunting scenarios than those who don't shoot from the bench a-lot...they have at least practiced for a purpose and have a good idea of what their rifle is capable of..and I don't know of any bench shooter who wants to shoot large groups...and yes...I know some great shots who seldom shoot off the bench...but when it comes time to sight in...they do.....
 
Becoming a good shooter...requires practice...and lots of it...no-matter what discipline one uses..and from those I've taught to shoot..it's easier to teach someone who has already mastered their bench skills than those who aren't any good at it..they can at least take a position to steady their sites...and with their prior knowledge know where their bullets are most likely going to go... This is by no-means taking anything away from those great shooters who seldom see a shooting bench...they have taken years developing their skills...and they deserve a good level of praise...but for the average Joe...bench shooting is a quicker way to build confidence and to learn how to shoot long range...  
 
Mac
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Offline NONYA

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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2005, 08:23:43 AM »
Every rifle i own has a Harris bi-pod on it and I wouldnt hunt withiout one,I wont attempt a long shot without a solid rest and my favorite position is prone with a bi-pod,i can shoot just as accuratly this way as I can over a bench and I do all my practicing this way.
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2005, 08:28:39 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Jon, my admonishment was tempered after you explained a little more in detail on the long shot you attempted... :wink:

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=48010&highlight=#48010



And Tim, I took your admonishment to heart because in reality, I was very sick and at that range should not have even considered the shot that I took.  And to this day still think about what you said.

Quote
As far as the poll is concerned, I'm with most of the other fellas here in that I sight-in at 100yds to give me an expected MPBR for the caliber I'm shooting, then shoot at 200yds and 300yds to see where the impacts occur just so I know for sure. Shooting at the longer ranges also gives me an idea of what the wind is going to do with the POI with the longer shots since field conditions are rarely ideal. In almost 50yrs of hunting, I've only taken a couple shots at big game over 125yds, the longest and only one at about 350yds in a clearcut at a buck with a scoped .308 win BLR. Most have been 50-125yds.


This year for mulies in the centeral highline area (Hwy 2) between Shelby and Chester, I am hunting in entirely differant region than that of NW Montana with its dark timber.  Unlike the haunts that elk west of Bannack, Mt wonder in and out of.  Mulies like coolies, low spots and on the prairie will present themselves quite differantly than timbered whitetail.

You all have a good one.
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2005, 08:42:25 AM »
Montanan:

Please don't think I am advocating not shooting in field positions..or at life sized targets..because I am not..there are to many benifits to doing so...I only meant what I said about your paticular wording in the statement..

Shooting at a full sized target is also a good idea for the scoped rifle hunter..namely to be able to judge distance with their reticle..and for those without the aid of a rangefinder...this is the best way to know your distances in the field short of having them pre-marked...and practicing with them at all ranges is a must..if you expect to shoot at any animal at those ranges...

Mac
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2005, 08:45:32 AM »
:toast:  :wink:
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2005, 09:51:05 AM »
Come on in and have a drink.....  8)
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Offline DanielWGriggs

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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2005, 10:09:50 AM »
Most hunting in Il is limited to shotguns. So practice is kind of limited to the restricted range of the weapon.  Muzzle loaders are also allowed during shotgun season. again a self imposed limit 200yds.
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Offline aulrich

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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2005, 02:28:25 PM »
Montanan thanks for the article it was a good read and it had some real valid points about saftey. As for the poll  I am not sure i would say "none of the above" , "a +b + c"  a+b+ others.

I have been know to take shots at 25 and call it good, but that was checking a rife after a tumble or double checking a new batch of standard reloads.

I also don't shoot my big game guns lots with my 338 mayby 10-20 times a year not counting hunting.  But i'll try always to test the at longer range a quick test @ 100 then 200 more if there is space but mostly just 200.

I love shooting milk jugs though not at 50 yards I like streching it out or scatering it at various ranges and shooting from field positions, I always fill them with water the splash makes it fun.

I am also a big fan of shooting at pie plates or animal target posters (especially with new shooters that want to be hunters), A person needs to learn how to shoot somthing that does not have a bullseye. Gong or plate shooting would come in here too but the closest I have come to that is a self re-setting rimfire flipper target.

And yes there is no replacement for hunting so varmint and predator hunting is invaluable, nothing like actual field shooting. Just way more volume than big game hunting, like for me last year was a busy year but I still only shot 6 times in the field (5 deer one took 2 shots).

But you know it all starts at the range shooting groups if you cant do it there you can't do it in the field ether.  It does not have to be one ragged hole but decent for the gun.

The craziest thing I have heard re- shooting skills is one guy said he did not like to practice too much, he wanted to give the deer a chance to get away :eek:
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2005, 03:24:04 PM »
Here's what my son and I did today.

He took 6 of my cardboard 40" high at the hump bison cutouts.  Placed them in differant areas around the outside of the pasture.  I didn't see where he had placed them as there is a mound in the center of the pasture that obscures the area beyond.

After these 6 bison targets were placed... I began my walk with my iron sighted 32" barreled Rolling Block in 45-90.  7 rounds only.

AS I started out, I saw the first one out there at approx 200 yards.  Took an off hand shot with the rear buckhorn sight raised up and the ladder set into the first setting.  Then I began looking for the others.. they all seemed to blend in with the range pasture tall grass.

As I began to make out each bison target I shot in off hand position, with each one at a differant distance than the other.  I was loosing daylight and each shot had to count.  The closest target was approx 75 yards and shaded under a pine tree.

Well I finally aimed and fired at all 6 bison targets, each one was then checked.  I was very pleased with my one shot hits right where they would need to be on a live animal if I were there to harvest them.

My son did his turn, with his 30-30 Marlin 336 and the results were very pleasing to him as well.

I'd say, were ready for the hunt.
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2005, 03:29:45 PM »
Heh heh, now if'n you can just find some 40" bison!!!!! :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2005, 03:35:30 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Heh heh, now if'n you can just find some 40" bison!!!!! :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D


Hey now... I could go into ranching pigmy bison  :-D
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Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2005, 04:24:01 PM »
I don't practice much at all.  Most of my shooting is contained in what I need to do to work up a load.  My range is 60yds to the bank at the back of my property.  When I hunt (2 or 3 times a season at most) I do it from a tree stand.  When I place that stand, I go up with my rifle and see what I will have for a rest in the direction that I expect the deer to come from.  For the last couple years I have been hunting in close woods along game trails so I have a pretty good idea where they are going to come from.  Shots don't exceed 50yds and most times they will be within 35.
If I was bean field hunting, naturally there would have to be more thought process going on.... as it is, no need... thankfully.  :-)

Ian
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