Author Topic: Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar barrel  (Read 767 times)

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Offline entsminger

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Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar barrel
« on: October 21, 2005, 03:18:08 AM »
Hi, I'm back again with more questions. I'm trying to understand how 8 or 10 inch 1861 mortar barrels are poured and machined. From what I hear there are at least 2 ways it has been done. One way, they pour the barrel at the foundry in a solid hunk and then bore/ream out the bore and mill the trunions on huge milling machines etc. Like Arron Frederickson of Wisconsin did with their 8 and 10 inch mortar .The other way they pour the barrel so that the bore and trunions are pretty much there with just some minor machining left to do to make things smooth like I think Hern Iron works does? I could be wrong on either process ? Can anyone elaborate on these processes for me as I'd like to understand the differing processes and learn more about which way is better or cheaper, easier etc etc...
  PS. I'm still wotking on my 13 inch propane tank mortar. I hope to have a 10 inch mortar some day in the distant future as well If I live long enough.

 Scott

Offline GGaskill

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Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2005, 08:36:14 AM »
I don't know what Hern does; best to contact them for a definitive answer.  

In the beginning, the old guys cast their barrels with cores (the term for the piece that makes the hole.)   They always had problems with the cores shifting during the pour; sometimes they would put wires at the inside end to help keep the core in position and the wires would become part of the barrel.  Once someone figured out how to drill the bores, casting solid became the universally accepted method with post-casting drilling of the bore.  Both straightness and surface finish are better with a drilled-from-solid bore.

Consider that the original M1861 barrels were made in a factory situation where many of the same thing were being made.  Consequently, they would have specialized machines and jigs and fixtures to maximize the ease of doing the work.  Making one at a time now doesn't justify making all of the fixtures so it would be better to make alterations of the casting by including, for example, holding points that would allow the use of a standard engine lathe for the drilling/boring process, yet they could be ground off in the finishing process after they were no longer needed.

The easiest way to get a M1861 mortar is to throw money at it.  Doing it yourself requires a big lathe at a minimum (it could be all done on a big lathe.)  I think in one of the previous posts on this subject, I guessed that you would need at least a 25" swing lathe to make a 10" M1861 (and a hoist of some kind to move the casting.)  The machining processes are actually pretty simple and few in number but would take a while because of the size of the casting.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline guardsgunner

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Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2005, 09:10:07 AM »
construction of civil war guns, Gibons Manual around page 62 actual( 74 in pdf file or there abouts. http://www.civilwarartillery.com/books/GIBBON.PDF

GG
The 8" cast was around $950 6 yrs ago when it was cast.Tube only. Quite a deal.I thought about making one but the work of getting it from range to range change my mind. Not to mention transportation for 2350 lbs.

Offline entsminger

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8 inch cast 6 years ago??
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2005, 02:26:43 AM »
So somebody cast an 8 inch 1861 barrel 6 years ago for $950? Boy that seems cheap? Isn't iron around $1.50 a pound not to mention the labor etc? I'm sure even 6 years ago it wouldn't have been that much cheaper for iron? That would be 1200 lb.s x $1.50. Wouldn't a barrel/tube cost a lot more to cast today?
   As crazy at this seems one thing that attracts me to the big mortars is their huge weight and the work that would be involved in moving them. I look forward to the idea of moving them with a large tripod and ball and tackle or whatever could be used to move them like they did back then. To me that seems almost as much a part of the fun as shooting it. Nothing against golf ball mortars but most anyone can pick them up and move them about, not just anyone can move a big mortar. To me that would be a fun challange. Of course I'll never know for sure untill I ever get one and right now I don't have the 5 or 10 thousand dollars needed to put towards a cannon when raising taxes, gas prices, etc ,etc are taking every spare cent I earn.I guess that's why I have been enquiring to see if making one could be done substantly cheaper? It doesn't sound like it though.

  Scott

Offline guardsgunner

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Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2005, 08:28:33 AM »
The tube was cast in Sarnia(sp?), Ontario  Canada (aabout 40miles from here)
and we are still getting a pretty good rate on exchange on cash.( was .52/$100 then now around .78/1.00)

 I will see if I can get a hold of the Gentleman who had them poured and get the name of the Co.    I made be Interested in an 8" as well.
  May take a bit to get  a hold of him, always gone somewhere.

Offline entsminger

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Mabey a 10 as well?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2005, 01:38:01 AM »
Thanks! It would be great if you could get me the number of the people who poured the barrel . I would be interested in seeing if they could pour a 10 inch 1861 mortar barrel as well?
  Just to make sure I understood you well, are you saying someone paid only $950 for the barrel to be poured? I assume they milled/bored it them selves?

  Scott Springston
  sdakss@aol.com

Offline GGaskill

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Questions on foundry work for 8 inch mortar
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2005, 07:49:20 AM »
Be surprised if they can do a 10" for anywhere near the cost of an 8".  Unless they already have a pattern for the 10", they will have to make one and that will run the labor cost way up from just ramming and pouring a mold from an existing pattern.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill