Bullet Casting

[mam40k]

Although I've been reloading for 20 years I'm new to BPCR. It seems the only way to do it at a reasonable cost is to cast your own bullets. I've been reading quite a bit on the subject but I'm still a little confused so I have a couple of questions.

1. Nose pour vs bottom pour? People have some very strong feelings about this but this forum seems to be a good place to ask the question.

2. Laddle vs bottom pour for pouring?

3. Is there a heck of a difference between a $45 Lyman mould and a $200 Bob Jones?

4. A powder question. Is Swiss really that good or is it like every other shooting sport. If the guy who wins shoots it everybody has to have it.

Sorry to ask such stupid questions but I need a little advise.

[Ray Newman]

QUERY: "1. Nose pour vs bottom pour? ...."

RESPONSE: I have never been able to pour a consistently well filled out bullet w/ a bottom pour furnace.

I have had much better & consistent success when I poured w/ a dipper from a plumbers pot atop a propane camp stove fired by/ a 5 gallon tank hooked to it.

I firmly believe that the problem is that the BPCR bullets are very big & the Caster needs a very hot alloy flowing @ a very heavy rate of flow to completely fill out the mould & maintain a consistent bullet weight. If the flow rate is not very strong, my experience tells me that the melt & the mould are starting to cool before the cavity if completely filled out.

Also w/ the Lee & the RCBS pots that I previously had, I was unable to keep the melt temp w/ in a reasonable range. One of the factors in casting is rhythm or cadence & once it is interrupted, the quality of the bullet will suffer. W/ some electric pots, the am't of time it takes the thermostat to cycle on/off is way too long & some are not that well insulated to hold the heat in.


QUERY: "2. Laddle vs bottom pour for pouring?"

RESPONSE: See above.

I also found that by drilling out the laddle spout to 'bout 3/16", the mould fills faster & the melt retains more heat as it fills the mould quicker.



QUERY: "3. Is there a heck of a difference between a $45 Lyman mould and a $200 Bob Jones?"

RESPONSE: Yup. The am't. of metal in the body of the mould & the sprue plate is much thicker. Also w/ a custom mould, you'll more often than not have a mould w/ 3 pins instead of the normal two, a much thicker & flatter sprue plate, a round cavity--make a round bullet base,  a mould cut to fit your rifle’s chamber, a mould cut to cast a bullet of a specific dia. w/ a specific alloy, etc.

Also a custom mould might/will allow you dispense w/ the bullet sizing operation.


QUERY: "4. A powder question. Is Swiss really that good or is it like every other shooting sport. If the guy who wins shoots it everybody has to have it."

RESPONSE: I shoot GOEX. For my eyes & shooting skills, I can’t justify the cost of SWISS. Last year, I bought a case (25 pounds) of mixed granulation GOEX from Powder, Inc., for approx US $260.00, inc delivery & HAZ MAT. A case of SWISS would have set me back ‘bout US $425.00.

Both are good powder & both have thier pros & cons.

http://www.powderinc.com/

I also strongly urge you to visit the Shiloh-Sharps web site & do a search on casting, bullet casting, etc. Also do as search for WAAGE --it is the latest &best furnace to melt lead for bullet making.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/index.php

Also below is a link to a thread that has links to on-line casting & reloading primers. Reloading & casting for a BPCR is not like reloading w/ White powder.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=72361&sid=e712 b227f8f7c1be4d47d5f0ee5eef37

Heed particular attention to these two links: for reloading 'n' casting:
http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading. pdf
http://www.longrangebpcr.com/8Phases.htm

By casting your own, you have total control over the finished bullet, the alloy content, & you exercise your own quality control standards.

You can remelt the rejects bullets. To become proficient @ casting, it does take some time & effort, but you can remelt the bullets @ the end of ea. practice session.  You are also not @ commercial casters mercy & the UPS delivery schedule.

[mam40k]

Thanks Ray,

That's a lot of good information. I will do some more research as you suggest. It has been quite confusing but that's probably do to all the new information I've been looking at on this subject.

Mark

[cooper]

1  Base pour.
2  Ladle.
3  No.
4  Maybe.


1.  I assume here you’re talking about nose pour vs bottom pour MOULDS (since your second question is the one about furnaces).  Some like the nose pour mould because they give you a perfect base.  And that’s probably true.  But does it make any difference?  It doesn’t seem as if the nose-pour moulds have taken over, so my conclusion is that it makes no practical difference, at least as long as you cull your bullets properly, and don’t shoot any with bad bases.  

2.  Ladle, definitely.  You can get more bullets by bottom-pouring, but your reject rate will be so high, that the ladle will actually be the better bet.

BTW – I’ve had my Lee 20-lb. pot for 8 years, have cast about 11,000 bullets through it, and have had no trouble whatsoever keeping the temperature constant.  Save your money, get the Lee along with a lead thermometer, learn the quirks of your pot, if there are any, and you should be fine.

And I agree with Ray – cadence is very important.  

3.  I’m not a big fan of custom moulds.  It is true that custom moulds will usually have a thicker sprue plate – but if you want one, you can get an aftermarket one for your mould for $15.  Bullets will drop out of a custom mould easier than from a std factory mould, but you can very easily lap your mould, not to increase its diameter, but to smooth-off any rough edges, and then the bullets will drop out a lot easier.

Custom moulds will usually cast a rounder bullet, but how important is that?  I orient all my bullets for shooting (both custom and factory).  I can tell you in my 40/65, I have been unable to get my PJ Creedmoor to shoot any better than my Lyman Snover.

A couple years ago, I asked a similar question about custom moulds on the old shooterstalk board.  Of all the answers I got (better workmanship, rounder bullets, etc.) NOT ONE PERSON mentioned that the custom mould produced bullets which were any more accurate than the RCBS or Lyman!

If you need a particular shape or weight, or a special diameter that no one makes, then you’ll need a custom mould.  Or if you just want one, because of the top level of workmanship, then go for it.  But otherwise, I just can’t justify the cost difference of $45 vs $220.

4.  I like Swiss.  In an important match, I’ll shoot Swiss.  Also, for 1,000 yd, Swiss 3Fg in my 40/65 or 40/70 will give me enough velocity so that I don’t have to duplex.  But I also shoot Goex, and it does fine.  If you’re a beginner at this, I’d suggest starting off with a case of Goex.  After you get used to what it can do, then try some Swiss.  

So my advice:  Lyman 535 gr. Postell 45 cal bullet, Lee 20-lb. pot, a thermometer, a ladle (Lyman), and a case of Goex.

[mam40k]

Thanks guys this has been most informative. I was leaning towards the Lyman mould but was wondering if I was missing something with the customs. Since I've never cast bullets before I couldn't understand why a ladle would be any better than a bottom pour. After you comments and some more reading it looks like 90% of the serious shooters use a ladle.

Thanks again

Mark

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Mam
Well here goes my 2 cents worth.
I started with a Lee bottom pour pot could only keep my bullet weight
down to 6 or 7gr spread, then I started using a ladle,bingo 2to3gr. spread.
Now I use a Magma Caster Bottom pour 2to3gr. spread,but like that other feller said it has a very heavy flow.
Now I've read where there are fellers that cast in 1/2gr. but I could never do it ,I've tried fluxing turning the temp. up and down ,spraying the moulds with different fallout compounds , drilling out the sprue plates,timing it ,59 other things still 2or 3gr.spread.
I have a bunch made by magma all pistol cal.bullets.but I have several
custom made moulds for BPCR and Lyman and RCBS and they are all
Round right out of the mould ,if then weren't I would send them back for a replacement.
Lyman and RCBS come through with heavy sprue plates.
For the Powder, I have bought a few pounds SWISS $18.00 a pound
I just bought a 25 pound bag of Goex 2F at $7.00 a pound.
I can't see any differents in accuracy out to 350yds about 100 fps faster.
Dusty Ed :wink:

[rk4570]

Thats a lot of real good info the only thing I would add is to try a Saeco mould instead of a #%$@&*** Lyman!
I think you are very lucky to get a good mould from them, but for a few $ more you can get a Saeco Mould & not have to worry about the bullets being out of round & trying  to get them out of the mould.
Just m h o   Have Fun!!

[cooper]

Dusty Ed  -  where did you get Goex in a bag for $7/lb?

I'm low on powder and will need to order by early next year.

[TopperT]

Thank You for your responce to the above.  I read your posting and followed your listing of web-sites....thank you very much.  Now maybe I will not be asking so many stupid questions/comments.  Man do I have a lot to learn as well.  Thanks again this was VERY helpful to a lot of us I am sure.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Pard
I buy Goex 2f From J+J Pyro, Moosic Pa.
The Phone # 570-842-3411
Dusty Ed :wink:

[dodd3]

i use a lee bottom pore production pot 220 volt model and a lee 500r bullet mould. i get 2 grn spread from my mould and the bullets drop out every time .i have had my lee pot for over 20 years never had any problems with it or my lee moulds i think with any bottom pore  pots you must keep them clean. i always get very good pore rate maybe its because it is an export model which i have to have here in australia,mite be the extra volts don't no for sure.my bullets come out good all the time.
bernie