New savage! but what caliber??

[Rimfirekid1022]

im really thinkin about gettin a Savage model 12 varminter low profile single shot but i cant decide what caliber to get it in!! the calibers for this rifle are .204 ruger, .22-250, and .223.  i will mainly be using it as a target rifle from 100 to 300 yards, secondly as a coyote and bobcat gun with a max range of probably 350 yards, and last i will take it on some prairie dog hunts.  i will mainly be shootin factory ammo but will use some handloads for serious 100-300 yard groups.  I like the .204 ruger but ive heard that with such light bullet weights it doesnt buck the winds very well out past 300 yards.  the .22-250 has more choices for factory ammo and is cheaper than the .204.  ive heard also that it bucks the wind better cause its loaded with heavier bullets.  i dont think i would really want it in .223 because i aready have an AR-15 in it, so ill just leave it out. ill set up a poll so you guys can vote on which one you think would be the best for me in how i would use it. but please also tell me any experiences with this particular rifle or these calibers in these uses. Thanks,
joseph

[Ramrod]

Although I can't think of a good reason to buy a Savage rifle (get something you would be proud to give to your kids), I can think of plenty of reasons to own a .22-250. I have been shooting this round on everything from crows to deer for over 30 years, and it is always the same story. Put them in the crosshairs, squeeze the trigger, and watch them die. The little ones blow up. The bigger ones just drop. If it is under 300 pounds and under 300 yards, I don't see why anyone needs anything else.

[Redhawk1]

With out a doubt, the 22-250.  

[nomosendero]

Oh, I can think of a good reason to buy a Savage, ACCURACY!!!

This is one of the best regular production varmit rifles available today &
the low profile version is more attractive than the other Savages, not
pretty, but not bad. It depends on whether you want to shoot or look.
I have a very good Rem. Var. Syn. in 22-250, but your chance of getting
a tack driver is a little better in the Savage when looking at these 2
particular models.

When comparing the 22-250 & 204, if you shoot factory ammo, I would
lean toward the 22-250 due to far more good choices.

If PD shooting will be a big part of your shooting, the 22-250 is NOT a high
volume round, the barrel wear will be excessive, but occasional, careful
PD shooting is OK. Any volume PD shooters that I am aware of use .223
or 204 type rounds.

For Coyotes/Bobcats, the 204 will do fine with the 39 GR. Sierra or Berger
Bullets if you handload at the maximum yardage you stated. If you want
to shoot further, the 22-250 would pull ahead, but it appears you are not
considering that.

It seems that my 22-250 shooting is decreasing as I now use a super
accurate RRA 24" Var. .223 out to 350-400 yards & I have a fast .25
that literally smokes the 22-250 for over 400 yard shots, especially in the wind!

[Ramrod]

I have a couple of .223s, a sweet little CZ 527, and an old shorty Colt AR-15 I bought new with original Colt scope. (Pretty scary to me, it's alot older than many of the posters here). They do everything I will ever expect the .223 to do for me, but when the range gets long, or the wind is blowing, I will put my 25 year old Remington 700 Varmint Rifle in .22-250 up against anything made today.
P.S. After actually using the guns I currently own, my kids would puke if I were to leave them Savage rifles when I croak.

[Crudders32]

I have a savage 111 in 22-250 that I bought about 10 years ago.  I was thinking about trading it in for a model 12 varminter low profile also in 22-250.  My savage has a sporter weight barrel, synthetic stock, and a standard trigger.  It also has a long action since I bought it before savage offered the shot action.  I wanted to trade it in just for an upgrade to the laminate stock, accu-trigger, short action, and the heavy stainless fluted barrel.  I took my savage to the range to see how it still shot and after a 5 shot group within the size of a quarter at 100 yrds.  I couldn't bring myself to get rid of it; it just shot too good.  I really didn't think that I need both of the guns and I don't get too shoot enough to justify even the modest cost of the savage.  I found a good deal on a H&R handi rifle with 3 barrels and 2 scopes on gunbroker so I scooped that up.  2 of the barrels were .223 and the third was a .204 Ruger.  I got the gun mainly for the .204 ruger since I had heard so much about it.  I took it to the range and I really wasn't impressed with the cartridge.  I decided since I had a 22-250 and the .223 barrels that I really didn't have a need for the .204 barrel, so I ended up trading it for a .270 barrel.  The .204 ruger seemed like more of a hassel to me than it was worth.  It was hard to find reloading dies, brass, bullets, and a cleaning rod that would fit the 20 caliber bore.  So I guess that the point of my story is that I would guess that the savage 12 low profile will be even more accurate and look better than my old savage 110 because of all the improvements savage has made.  Also I personally think that these savages look great and aren't even close to as ugly as other people say they are.  So if you want a real good shooter and a good looking gun (IMO) then the savage 12 low profile is an excellent choice.  As far as the caliber goes, like I said before everything for the 22-250 is much more available and cheaper than anything for the .204 ruger.  There is also alot more bullet selection for .224 diameter than the 20 caliber bullets.  I think all the excitement about the .204 ruger is a bunch of hype and is only a fad.  The 22-250 is time tested and can do everything the .204 ruger can do and more.  Also from my own experience the savage 22-250 is very accurate with 55gr nosler ballistic tips with IMR4064.  It is also extremely deadly for groundhogs and even killed a doe with them once.  Sorry for the long post, but thought this would help with your decision.

[Rimfirekid1022]

In my opinion i love the look of the savage and think its probably the most accurate FACTORY  varmint rifle in production.  ive read posts on other forums with people shooting 1/4 inch five shot groups at 100 yards and 1/2 to 3/4 at 2 and 300 hundred yards!!  i could be wrong but i bet it is the most accurate factory varmint rifle out there and if you like the looks of it then i think you should jump on this thing. because with the accuracy it has and the accu trigger for around $550 on gunbroker its an amazing deal!!  i think its pretty obvious that the .22-250 would be a much better choice. i think this is what ill get!! also ive never been sure about this so i thought id ask yall. is a .22-250 a 250 savage necked down to a 22 caliber bullet?? thanks for yalls opinions!!
joseph

[nomosendero]

Rimfirekid1022
I think you would be making a great choice in the 22-250. As stated in my
previous post, the only drawback is volume shooting at PD's. This is not
an issue if you take along a .223 or something to alternate & give
your 22-250 time to cool a bit! Most people don't have a bigger case 6mm
or .25 for windy days and longer ranges so the 22-250 would be better
than a smaller .22 or .20 for this.

You are right about the looks of a Savage Low Profile, it looks much, much
better than all other Savages. The only unattractive feature left is the barrel nut, which by itself is no big deal. If anyone can look at that particular model & get sick, then they are too sickly to be in the Varmit fields anyway. Can you imagine what a red mist would do to them!!!

[Rimfirekid1022]

thanks for all youre advice nomosendero!! i definately will be gettin it in the .22-250!  i know it would get hot so when i go on my p dog hunts i will bring a long my AR-15 in .223 for those shorter 100 to 300 yard shots and then pull out the .22-250 for those longer shots!!  the only reason why i can think of why somebody would think this rifle is ugly and couldnt shoot for s@#t is because #1 they are confusing it with the model 12 bvss which i will say the stock is not very attractive! and #2 they've never shot a savage varmint rifle or any savage rifle before!! here is a link to a pic of a 12 bvss-http://www.garysgunshop.com/store/images/12bvss_sala.gif

and here is a link to the 12 vlp-http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sav_12VLP-S.jpg

and here is a link to a 3 shot group shot by the exact same rifle im lookin at. the guy that shot it was shooting it with no aftermarket parts or anything. just a good handload-http://www.savageshooters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161

if you read through the thread he told me the load data that he used to shoot the group.  maybe this will change yall disbelievers minds!! sorry, yall will just have to copy and paste these links cause i wasnt sure how to post a web adress onto the post! oh well, itll just give yalls hands and trigger finger a little extra workout!! thanks,
joseph

[mountainview]

Rfire, I have the 12FV in 223 and it is my family's fav rifle. Looks good, excellent trigger, and shoots great though it is a tad heavy to lug around over any appreciable distance. Get it in 22-250 and you can reach out at touch the distant varmints/targets. If you are not handloading, the 223 would get the job done and ammo costs would be minimal. I've not shot the 204 so can't comment on it but since my 223 works so well, I don't have sufficient motivation (yet) to consider it.

If you are still torn between calibers, get both. An acquaintance of mine has a different varminter for each day of the week which seems like sound logic to a gun enthusiast.

[bajabill]

P.S. After actually using the guns I currently own, my kids would puke if I were to leave them Savage rifles when I croak.

those apples have not fallen far from the tree   :noway:

[aulrich]

Just in case you have not bought the gun. Let me throw in a vote for 204 for these reasons

1 Damn accurate (inherently more accurate than 22-250 can't say for sure but I lean to yes)
2. Cheaper to run it burns ~1/3 less powder per round
3. Better barrel life
4. Easier on fur, (the upside of having less power than the 22-250) I don't want to imagine what a 22-250 would do to a bobcat.
5. Does not give anything up trajectory wise to 22-250 combined with #2 it makes for a real interesting package.
6. In a varmint weight gun you see your hits (self spotting while PD shooting)

There is nothing really wrong with the 22-250 it will do what you ask, but it is definitely second place for the criteria you described. No matter what the fossils  :-D  are telling you

We won't even go to the reason why some guys can't come to grips that thier remingtons are just really expensive tomato stakes. :-D  :grin:  :lol:    :roll:

One more thing here is a nice litte write-up comparing 204 - to the fast 22's

http://www.rugerhunting.com/204_overview.php

[Rimfirekid1022]

thanks for the info aulrich!!  the things you listed and the article you posted have somew good points but i think i still am leaning towards the 22-250 here are my reasons:
1. in this gun i think the accuracy is gonna be the same for all 3 calibers. did you look at the group that guy shot with the .22-250 i posted earlier. i could be wrong though.

2. the few handloads i will be shootin will be from stuff that my friend has since i dont reload myself. and factory ammo is cheaper and more available also.

3. wouldnt the barrel life be shorter for the .204 since the bullet is goin at what 4500 fps at the muzzle??

4. i dont mind if the pelt damage is more with the 22-250 than the .204 because i wont be sellin the bplts. and i dont think it would do much to a bobcat because ive shot a bobcats with a 270 and a 25-06 and the damage was minimal.

5. im not really worried about the trajectory of the bullets although i do know that the .204 shoots flatter.

6. the guy in the article said that with a varmint weight gun like the one im gonna be gettin you can see your hits with the .22-250 also.

i thank you for postin that article and helpin the .204 not feel too bad but im pretty much sold on the .22-250 right now.
joseph

[aulrich]

Given you reasons, I have no doubt that you'll be happy with the gun. In reality you were choosing between two right answers so you just have to figure out which one is most right for you.

It was once thought that speed was the main culprit in barrel wear and it does factor in but. But the main component seems to be the ratio of bore to powder capacity and just plain old a barrel can burn x pounds of powder before it is worn out.

the few handloads i will be shootin will be from stuff that my friend has

Carefull about this, more than one gun has been blown-up by using someone else's reloads.

[Rimfirekid1022]

i never woulda known that about barrel wear aulrich. i always thought that it was how fast the bullet was. learn somethin new everyday i guess!!  I think im makin the right decision with the .22-250 but i still like the .204 so i might one day get a barrel in it for my contender or somethin like that.  when i said id be usin a friends reloads i meant id be loading them for me, but with him at his house cause i dont reload so i dont know how but would someday like to learn and do it myself. sorry for the misunderstanding.
joseph

[Coyote Hunter]

Although I can't think of a good reason to buy a Savage rifle (get something you would be proud to give to your kids), I can think of plenty of reasons to own a .22-250… If it is under 300 pounds and under 300 yards, I don't see why anyone needs anything else.

The one Savage I owned was a 110E in .22-250.  It was the embodiment of ugly, but it shot like a dream until the barrel went south.  Many of the new Savages are quite good in the looks department and the Accu-Trigger is excellent.  More importantly, however, every Savage I have seen at the range was a shooter.  I would be quite proud to give my kids such a gun.

As to not needing anything bigger than a .22-250 for game under 300 pounds, you obviously don’t live in Colorado where a .22-250 wouldn’t be legal for anything bigger than coyotes or lions.

[Coyote Hunter]

Rimfire –

I don’t have anything against the .204 but would definitely get a .223 before I got a .204.  Since you already have a .223, I’d get the .22-250.

When prairie doggin’ just shoot slowly so as not to heat up the barrel and it will last a LOT longer regardless of the cartridge it is chambered for.  When shooting handloads, back off from max a bit and that will increase barrel life significantly too.

When I take my .22-250 out for the critters I also take my Browning .22 semi-auto rifle and my Browning .22 Buckmark.  They take a lot of critters while the .22-250 is cooling.  Wish I had a .223 for that purpose.

[Rimfirekid1022]

Thanks coyote hunter! i think the 22-250 is the best choice for me! when i go p dog huntin with it im gonna take my AR-15 thats tricked out for varmints to shoot while the 22-250 is coolin down!! well gotta go get some guns and ammo out for tomorrow mornin!! its gonna be an early mornin but hopefully that big buck will walk out for me!!
joseph

[kombi1976]

I'm sure these have already been mentioned but here are some reasons why the 22-250 is your best bet:

- Easily available components
- Easily available factory ammo(should you need it)
- Capability to fire significantly heavier projectiles at serious velocities....important for predator work
- Bigger range of bullet choice

The .204 is a great round but it's yet to become a mainstream round and the 22-250 has an excellent reputation for good reason.

[Ramrod]

As to not needing anything bigger than a .22-250 for game under 300 pounds, you obviously don’t live in Colorado where a .22-250 wouldn’t be legal for anything bigger than coyotes or lions.

Lions? As in mountain lions? Don't they weigh about the same as a small deer, but have the ability to eat people? Colorado game laws are pretty strange, just like most states. :-D

[tcman]

:eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[Coyote Hunter]

Lions? As in mountain lions? Don't they weigh about the same as a small deer, but have the ability to eat people? Colorado game laws are pretty strange, just like most states. :-D

Yeah, I was surprised, too.  Here it is, straight from the 2005 Mountain Lion brochure, near the top of page 3:

LEGAL METHODS OF TAKE
1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES OR HANDGUNS: Bullets must weigh min.
45 grains; must produce min. 400-foot lbs. of energy at muzzle.

Have never taken a mountain lion and have only seen one "on the paw" so to speak.  They are nowhere near as big as mulies, with adults weighing anywhere from 100-200 pounds.  A centerfire .22 would certainly NOT be my first choice if hunting these animals.

[kombi1976]

So, Rimfirekid1022, what did you buy?
Or haven't you bought yet?

[jnclement]