More on Boom factor

[Squire Robin]

Hi Cannoneers

I'm down on the south coast of England where I'm fixing up a brace of 6 pounders made by Carron of Falkirk Scotland some time between 1780 and 1830 for a merchantman out in the South China Seas. I have provenance, carriages, the lot barring a few wheels. I am one happy bunny.

They are too heavy to move but November the fifth is Guy Fawkes night and a few bangs are expected in back gardens. If I can have them ready in time, I just happen to have a pound of Nobel NPMG medium cannon powder.

How much can I put in to get good flash and bang pictures without breaking the windows or reaching over the back fence 50 yads away?

How would you rate grass clippings as a short range load to get the pressure up a bit?

best regards

Squire Robn

[Double D]

Welcome to our board. Glad to have you.

Do post some pictures of your cannons. I saw them over on the MLA  board. They are fabulous.  

Look around the sticky's posted at the top of this forum for additional guidance on cannons shooting.  Here is quidance on load determination from our FAQ's posted at the top of this forum.  

National Safety Rules and Procedures
for Shooting Muzzleloading Artillery, as adapted by the American Artillery Association[/color]

From the "Ten Basic Safety Regulations"

1. Powder charges should not exceed 2 oz. of Fg or 3 oz. FFA or Cannon Grade Goex powder per inch of bore diameter. No excessive charges. Use black powder only.  This is by weight-avoirdupois-16 oounces per pound, 480 grains to the ounce.

Moderator note:  his rule applies only to guns over 2 inch bore. For guns smaller than 2 inch see THE MORE COMPLETE CANNONEER compiled Agreeably to the Regulations of the War Department as published in "Artillery Drill" by George Patten, 1861 and Containing Other Observations on Antique Cannon By M.C. Switlik with selected excerts from other artillery manuals Appendix I.

Addendum For mortars the the diameter of the powder chamber is the considered the bore diameter.

As far as wads  they are not recommended.  Remember when fire your wad of grass clippings it will come out as a smoldering  solid mass that may  only partially come apart.  Depending on how large a quantity  or how tightly packed the clippings are they may act as a blockage and burst your gun.

[Squire Robin]

This is good stuff, but all I want a good lick of flame and lots of smoke so maybe 2oz/inch (7 ounces) is more than I want.

That formula is for a maximum load.  Always reduce the load a great deal to start and work up.  Do not exceed that load.

Don't want the wife to say, "Never again".  That's about half a pound (I just checked and I actually have a kilo of powder so there's plenty there).

After 39 years of marriage I have had mixed results in the proper techniques for dealing with a wife.  The best approach with these type is issue is to let her fire it first.  This is not with out its dangers.  I have had more than one firearm that the wife has interpreted the right of first shot as conveyence of ownership.  You will have to deal with this issue on you own.

I don't think there's any risk, as one was fired within living memory. They got in to trouble because they didn't reckon the load of golf balls would reach 3/4 of a mile to the house they were pointing at :grin:

Golf ball Cannister and grape,, we have some here who can relate to the practice.

I'm electrolysing the bores to remove the rust right now, but I did put one on it's carriage when I got it home and took this picture.

 

A full description and explanation of the process you are using for this would be most welcome.  How about a making a ne spearate posting on this.

Click on this link to be taken to the post on loading cannon cartridges

Loading Cannon Cartridges

[Squire Robin]

Oops! I've been edited, was I too controversial? Gosh your moderators are strict

I don't get to practice and work up a load, I just get two pops on Guy Fawkes night if I'm ready. In fact I plan to light both fuses together so nobody can tell me to stop after the first :grin:

What I really need is a load that impresses but stops short of horrifying. I tried blank firing a 3" at an ECW re-enactment and the load was incredibly light, I've put that much in a 10 bore Lantaka.

Might be better to describe de-rusting a cannon after I've actually done one, but I will say that electrolysis seems very easy and extremely effective...

[GGaskill]

Loose, dry grass clippings are probably OK; but there is an issue of them burning.  As long as the receiving area is not fire prone, I think you're OK.  
 
It's going to take a lot of powder to get a boom from a 3.62" bore and the boom is going to be big.  My suggestion is to make a sub-caliber insert that could be fired with a much smaller charge yet produce a satisfying boom and blast.  It wouldn't even have to be the length of the 6 pdr bore; just place a filler behind it so the muzzles are even.  Fire it electrically; run the wires alongside the insert and out the muzzle or thread them through the existing vent.
 
Too bad you can't resurrect Guy for today.

[Squire Robin]

It's going to take a lot of powder to get a boom from a 3.62" bore and the boom is going to be big.  My suggestion is to make a sub-caliber insert

Making an insert would involve all kinds of police form filling. I can get away with most anything so long as I stick with pressure components made before 1939.

Would a smaller quantity of hot powder be better than a larger quantity of coarse? I have lots of top grade sporting powder.

[CU_Cannon]

I too have been watching your progress.  I can't wait to see them fully restored.

It doesn't take all that much powder to get a good boom.  My beer can mortar makes a satisfying boom off an ice tea scoop of ffg goex.  It is had to get much of a report from a mortar because of there short barrel.  A cannon should be easer to get some noise out of.  I think you will need to do some experimentation to get a good load.  

I am of the school of thought that if you are firing a blank that is what it should be.  Anything else in the barrel becomes a projectile.  Since you have a limited range in which to fire I would stick with a foil wrapped charge only.  Even then 50 yards in front of the muzzle should be considered a minimum safe distance.

[GGaskill]

The problem is that a small amount of powder is going to expand many times over in that relatively large bore and reach the muzzle with little pressure and little velocity, both of which are required for a good boom.  Maybe make a solid full-bore insert about 3/4 bore length so the burnt charge gets to the muzzle while there is still some pressure left.  You would have to squib the charge from the front but it would fire.

Maybe make the insert and stamp it MCMXXXVIII, or earlier.  How are they going to prove its date of origin?

Guy Fawkes, where are you when we need you?

[Cat Whisperer]

Oops! I've been edited, was I too controversial? Gosh your moderators are strict
....

DD will steer you right.  AND keep within the safe limits.  

When WE make reference to loads, it is usually from one of three sources:
American artillery Assn, North-South Skirmish Association or M.C. Switlick's reference - The More Complete Cannoneer.

These have proven track records.  They have a LONG track record and have made rules based on EXPERIENCE - both good and bad.

I do not think that you find any of them recommending using anything for a filler (although I have used newspaper - which burns - and I have seen a cannon such loaded explode).

If you find folks here recommending charges, see if THEY USE those charges (or are just hypothesizing) and compare them with the above recommended sources.

Good luck and WELCOME to the board!    It is a pleasure to celebrate common holidays in a traditional fashion.

(Does Graybeard provide a spell-check with a dictionary of the King's English?)

[Artilleryman]

Trying to catch up on all the posts I've missed.  I have found that the noise of the report is louder if you elevate the muzzle.  In mortars you can increase the report by placing one layer of paste board over the powder charge that just fits the bore.