Author Topic: 30-30 vs 7-30 waters (Read 2462 times)

Smokin54 · « **on:** March 03, 2003, 03:08:23 PM »

Ok I know this horse has probally been beaten to death , Can we give it a couple more of wacks ? At the end of this week I will have the dough for another barrel and accessorys and am trying to decide between the 30-30 and 7-30 waters in a 14 inch hunter barrel.
Whats the best and worst of each ??

Tommyt · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2003, 03:54:04 PM »

I can tell you the worst in both HUNTER you don't need it
JMHO

Brakes are for cars and freight train rounds and the one's you have chosen are niether

thomas · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:01:57 PM »

consult your favorite reloading manuals.
Then you can make a real decision based on FACT not opinion.
Makes it easy right?
tom

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:36:28 PM »

I have both. The essence of it is that the 7x30 has it in performance and the 30/30 has it in availability of bullets and moulds. If you are going to shoot cast, go with the 30/30.

Either way stay away from the muzzle tamers and go with a super 14, lot of unnecessary noise with the hunter barrels. I would not mind swapping off my matte blue 14" Hunter in 7x30 for a stainless super 14 for that same cartridge.

Smokin54 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2003, 05:58:26 PM »

I thought the whole idea of these forums was for an exchange of ideas and opinions, if its not then I am here for the wrong reasons . This forum is not picking my barrels for me and I am the one that is going to do the loading and shooting and then live with the results.
I gather many of you dont like the tamers on barrels in this class , Why ??is it the noise level ?
The only barrel I have shot with a tamer was a 45-70 and I havent shot a 45-70 without one so I cant compare.
I read the manuals and the 7-30 appears to be superior ballitically but if the brass is hard to get or splits easy and suitable hunting bulles cant be found then it makes the 30-30 a better choice because the components are all over.

contendernut · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2003, 06:32:00 PM »

Both are good rounds. The 30-30 has inexpensive factory loads and are available almost anywhere. 7-30 stamped brass is expensive and hard to find. Forming 7-30 from 30-30 is a snap though. Only one big name factory load for the 7-30, which is a very good load for whitetails. I would rather have the 7-30 out of the two.

As to the muzzle break, that's a personal choice. I don't like them because of the extra shock wave. The extra noise doesn't bother me, as I wouldn't shoot either without hearing protection. You give up a little velocity, but not much.

KYODE · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2003, 11:58:53 PM »

hey thtwit! you wouldn't share that 7tcu loading info would you? i've been thinkin on a 30-30AI or 7-30 waters. if i could get reasonably close in velocity to 7-30, maybe it would be in the running. most data i've seen is 200-300fps behind. i sure like the 6mmtcu, maybe the 7tcu would be fun also.

flatlander · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:15:35 AM »

Doesn't EA Brown still sell 7x30 brass for $30/100? I reload for my 7x30 and that seems reasonable to me. Yeah, it is more than the 30-30, but it is cheaper than buying other places (I've seen as high as $60/100) and also cheaper than fireforming from 30-30 by the time you figure in powder and bullets. If you reload, go 7x30. I have both barrels and load for the 7x30 and shoot factory with the 30-30. I figure I can shoot heavier bullets at closer ranges with my 30-30 and use the 7x30 for the longer stuff with a lighter bullet. The only reason I wouldn't suggest a hunter barrel, especially in the 7x30 is the noise. The recoil isn't bad and you don't need a brake, but if you don't have some kind of plugs, you will be sorry.

Hawkeye · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2003, 05:46:18 AM »

I like the 7-30 Waters for the little extra range I get with 7mm bullets and powder charges I use compaired to the heavier .30 bullets. :grin: I can't say either one is more accurate. I have shot both. As for extra cost of powder and bullets, why. :eek: The load I use in my fireformed cases works in my sized, un-fireformed cases and as far as I can tell shoots the same impact point. I have used cases that have not been fireformed and hunted with them. Then the next time they are ready to just neck size and load again. I don't waste all of that powder and bullets just to form the cases. The pistol I have now was shot that was by the previous owner in IMHSA matches and he didn't have any trouble. You just have to make sure they will chamber. I size one until it will chamber and then start in on them and check one every so often to make sure they will chamber.
Just my 2 cents. :money:
Mike

rimfire · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2003, 06:29:49 AM »

Love my 7-30 waters. The comment on more bullets for a 30 cal...if you can use up the available bullets in 7mm you shoot a lot more than anyone I know. Lots of 7mm bullets.

Flatter trajectory with the lighter 7mm bullet...My 7-30 performs unbelievably well on whitetails...in fact I have used no other caliber in anything...rifle or pistol...that was as easy to shoot; i.e. low recoil...that performed as well.

If I was to go after larger animals the 30-30 may be better, but then again, I would probably go even larger for Elk/Moose/etc. so the 7-30 does it for me for anything smaller.

As for braking the 7-30...my light load of 35 grains of 748 behind a 120 grain NBT kicks WAY less than a factory 240 grain 44 magnum. No way I would add a brake...and I am a recoil wimp! Took two whitetails shooting offhand with it last season. Practicing with my 22 magnum barrel keeps me ready to go with this pleasure of a gun/caliber.

Good luck in whatever you choose. Quite honestly, I would guess that besides the slight difference I would expect in recoil the Whitetail is likely never to know the difference between your two choices at 200 yards or less with proper choice of bulles and any reasonable load so you cannot go wrong. Expect the same with match grade bullets at the target range. Good luck.

Forgot to add...be careful of the pre-formed brass from EAB. My standard chamber from VVCG in my barrel will not chamber the EAB brass...failed to check a loaded case before loading up 40 rounds of my favorite load...none of it will chamber. The neck expands too much with a bullet seated. Anyone know how to pull NBT's from a case without damaging the nose? Seems a shame to waste these pricey bullets. I could try trimming the neck next time, but I know have 40 rounds of the Federal factory brass I am loading and am in need of no more at this time.

Robert · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2003, 07:19:39 AM »

If they are crimped or seem to resist, first put them in your seating die and give them just a tap and push them further in a little, this will loosen them up some, then pull them normally....this technique also work with a kinetic puller, and with Cisco's method too, you wont have to grip them as tight.

Robert · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2003, 07:32:45 AM »

I almost got a 7x30 at a show last summer, but it was braked, I opted for a 300 Whisper instead. I have a 7 mm TCU, and It shoots really well, accurate out to 200 yds for sure. Of course, we Contender nuts are always looking for something faster and better, blow out the shoulder.....re-cut the chamber to Ackley.....etc, etc, etc. It seems to never end. Upon reading your praise of the 7 TCU, I think Iwill stick to what I have. It is a tack-driver with a 10" barrel. I also heard that the 7x30 isnt that much of an improvement unless it is with a longer barrel.
We sometimes forget what we are doing, these things that we start out with as a 'HANDGUN" end up being a RIFLE, so why not just go buy a nice bolt action instead? I have a scope on my 7TCU and I am considering taking it off. When I first got it, I went for a long hike with it in a little sidekick belt holster and was amazed at how easy it was to carry in the field. A 7 TCU with a 10" barrel and iron sights is a true joy to handle.

Smokin54 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2003, 01:11:40 PM »

Thanks guys !!! This is the kind of help I was after not get a loading manual and read it ! Now I need to go back and consider the 7tcu ,The problem I have with it is it is based on .223 brass and I have a fear of mixing up the brass with the brass for one of my 3 .223s

billjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:21:32 PM »

Smokn54,
I have a 223, 7TCU, and 7-30. I like the TCU because it's a 10" barrel. All 3 are a peach to shoot. I've never had trouble mixing the brass of the 223 and TCU up. I reload all my shells, even the 223.

You don't need a brake. The 7-30 will shoot easier than your 357Max did. You will want hearing protection, regardless of brake or no brake. I prefer electronic muffs. They are great for hunting.

I know you were considering the 30-30. If you want to reload, consider the the 7-30. There are several bullet wts and styles to choose from and they will shoot flatter than the 30-30. I use 120 Noslers for hunting and Sierra 120 for targets. Have also used the 130 and 160. Costs for components to reload a box of 20 7-30 with 120N $9.31, Sierra 120=$5.46
Factory Federals run $16.99 a box.
Factory 30-30 run $8-9 on sale.
So if you reload, you'll get the best for less than you can buy 30-30 for.

The 7TCU is nice to shoot, but my 357 Max is more accurate. The biggest asset of both these is the short barrel. If I was to deer hunt, I'd use the 7-30 in the long barrel and the 357Max in the short barrel. I like the velocity with the TCU, but want the higher energy of the MAX.

bj :wink:

janehal · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2003, 02:50:14 AM »

Before you decide , check out Reeder Custom Guns, they make a .30 GNR and a 7 GNR. Both are easy to fireform andvery nice rounds. I shot a 7-30 for a number of years on bear and deer before having one made in 7 GNR . I only shoot 21 Inch contenders.

Bullseye · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2003, 01:01:11 PM »

Might as well throw in my two cents since I just bought a 30-30 barrel. I chose the 30-30 for the following reasons even though I know that the 7-30 is one of the most accurate barrels combinations for the Contender.

1. Brass is cheaper (compared to buying from EAB).
2. No fireforming (if using 30-30 brass)
3. Getting tired of reloading, might just shoot factory ammo in it. 30-30 is way cheaper.
4. Any shot I will have at a deer will be under 100 yards, so one is as good as the other for me.

I have only shot this barrel a few times, but recoil is mild, I would not get a brake because of the extra noise and low recoil.

I was origianally going to shoot factory ammo, but I just got my die set yesterday. When you figure the cost, even with 30-30 ammo being as cheap as it is, you can pay for the dies with the money saved in the first 150 shots (thats based on a redding deluxe die set, $45). Plus I wanted to try spitzer bullets, so that swayed me toward reloading.

Good luck with your decision.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2003, 11:48:57 AM »

Okay, here goes my stab at it. If you're not reloading, I give the edge to the Waters, because 30-30 factory stuff ain't worth a hoot in a contender, especially for deer and the one Waters load does pretty good. But, for sure, reloading helps the heck out of either. Brass...Use 30-30 for both...no contest...fireforming loads in waters are good for most anything including hunting as someone already said. BOTTOM LINE...close on all counts...but I'd give the Waters a slight edge on all counts. My personal (new) choice is like Porkypine, 30-30AI, and now to muddy up the water a little more(as if it needs it), I just got a 7MM/30-30AI on the way. Too many barrels not enough time!!! GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Joe Kool · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2003, 01:16:38 PM »

rimfire, to stop damaging the tips on bullets when useing a kinetic puller, cut a piece of rubber from the sole of a tennis shoe. The piece will be about 3/8-1/2" thick. Use a sharp knife and carefully shave the diameter down untill the piece is a tight fit to the inside of the kinetic puller. Then press the piece into the puller. Now the tip of the bullet will bounce off the rubber instead of the hard plastic bottom.

fast*eddie · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2003, 08:05:14 AM »

I can't speak for the 30-30 but I have 4 TC barrels .22, .223, 44mag and 7-30 waters. All are 14" . Only the 44 mag is a ported hunter barrel. I got rid of my 7-30 Hunter barrel for a plain 14" barrel and I am very happy about it.
The ported barrel is too loud and I made the mistake of bracing the barrel against the side of a tree for a shot. It blew some of the bark dust in my eye. I did a barrel swap and got my 1st deer with a pistol that fall using a 30-30 fire formed cartridge (necked down 30-30 and a Sierra 7mm single shot pistol bullet). I wouldn't recommend a "Hunter" barrel to anyone !

flyfisher · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2003, 02:06:01 PM »

Both excellent calibers for a Contender, and both, in my opinion, excellent deer and smaller game killers. I like the idea of the 7-30, a bit faster and more unique of a caliber than the 30-30. Reloading for each should require about the same amount of time and effort, as mentioned before, forming 7-30 brass from 30-30 is easy and fast.
I am a big fan of the 14" barrel, and both calibers are easily manageable in this configuration. I, personally, do not like the muzzle brakes on these barrels. I have a .375 Win. Bull barrel, and recoil is manageable. I do not like the large amount of muzzle blast and the ear-thumping noise made from a muzzle brake. Again, in my opinion, you can handle the recoil, lessen the noise, and shoot just as well with a bull barrel.