Reading Brass -- 25-06 Ackley Please Help

[hkg3k]

Took my Krieger rebarreled 25-06 Ackley Improved M70 Winchester out yesterday to shoot and fireform some brass........I think I may have a problem, any cogent thoughts and insights would be appreciated.

Using factory Winchester 25-06 120gr ammo, I fireformed 40 cases.  From the 1st case out of the gun, I got a ring of about on quarter to one half circumference in the brass just above the case head.......almost like a "reverse belt."  I took note, thought "hummm" to myself and proceeded to shoot the rest of the 2 boxes of ammo.

Today, I closely examined both boxes of fired cases and what I have is:

26 cases without a reverse belt.....looked normal as though they were fired in a chamber cut for them.

8 cases with a reverse belt and a case stretch or stress ring going around the case.

6 cases with a reverse belt, but no visual evidence of a stretch or stress ring.

I cut 2 cases with stress rings, and inside there was a thinning "trench"  easily felt with a dental pick where the line on the outside of the brass existed.

My questions are:

Is this nomal?  I have fireformed 7-30 waters before and have not encoutered this problem.

Is there brass better suited for fireforming other that Winchester?

Could Krieger have screwed up the chamber or is what I am seeing simple a result of what happens when fireforming factory ammo in an Ackley chamber.

I measured OAL of each fired case and length seems to be fine.

Anyone have experience in this arena?  TIA.

[trotterlg]

Sounds like symptoms of a rifle with excessive headspace.  I do not have an ackerly improved anyting, but looked into it for a 22-250.  As I recall fire forming in these chambers relies on a little crush on the case to keep it from falling too far into the improved chamber when fireformng it.  You may have better luck using once fired brass you have sized a little long or neck sized only to use for fire forming.  To me Winchester brass always seems a little hard, but that is just my opinion.  Larry

[hkg3k]

As I recall fire forming in these chambers relies on a little crush on the case to keep it from falling too far into the improved chamber when fireformng it. To me Winchester brass always seems a little hard, but that is just my opinion.  Larry

Larry, thanks for your response.  I believe the 2 items above might just be the key to solving the problem.  Thanks again.

[Lone Star]

This is the classic case of an improper Ackley Improved rechambering job.  To work with factory ammo, it is essential that the barrel be set back one thread prior to rechambering to an Ackley cartridge.  As stated above, there must be a "crush" fit at the shoulder/neck juncture to establish proper headspace.  Without setting the barrel back this is impossible to accomplish, and the symptoms of excess headspace are clear.  Take the rifle back and shoot the gunsmith (Just kidding!)   :-D

If the 'smith refuses to fix the problem, you can salvage the rifle by treating it like a normal wildcat.  Use .270 brass and size it in the .25-06AI die until it chambers with a bit of effort.  Make sure to trim the cases first since .270s will probably be too long.  After fireforming treat as normal.  Sorry you had the problem, done right the AIs are fun to play with and most will give an extra 100 fps or so over the parent case.

[Nobade]

An easy check is to take a factory 25-06 case, seat a primer, and fire it with no powder or bullet. If the primer is sticking out, you have too much headspace. (Primer blows back into the bolt face, but there's no powder to blow the case back to cover it) The factory cases should close with a fair amount of resistance as they are crushed into place. I get to fix these all the time for people who don't know how to set up an Ackley chamber.