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Offline fortress49

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What did I do wrong?
« on: November 04, 2005, 08:32:40 AM »
Hello,

I am new to reloading having only reloaded for my .38 and .357 magnum.

My next step was to reload for my 45-70.  I purchased the dies, shell holders, etc.

When I tried to re-size the cases and deprime, it was very difficult to use the press.  The cases were VERY tight.  At first, I did not use any lube since I did not think I needed it.  Since it was so hard to do, I tried using some lubricant.  This was better, but it was still hard to press.  I did not use a lubricant that is dedicated to reloading.  Is that a mistake?  Anyway, the second case that I tried to resize got stuck in the die even with the lube.  I had a terrible time getting it out.

The dies that I am using are RCBS dies in a RCBS press.  I don't know if they are "carbide" dies or not.  How do you tell?  (I bought the dies used at a gun show.)  When I reload the .38/.357 I use no lube and it works very well.  If these are non-carbide dies, I understand I need to use lube.  Does it matter what type of lube you use?  

Could the dies be defective?  Maybe that is why they were for sale at the show?  That would be a bummer...

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Matt
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Offline John Traveler1

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case sizing
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2005, 10:39:15 AM »
Matt,

You absolutely NEED case lubricant when full-length sizing those .45-70 cases!  As far as I know, carbide sizing dies are not available for this caliber because of the length and case taper.  They would be prohibitively expensive to manufacture and sell.  Carbide dies are nominally available only in straight wall pistol calibers (.38/.357, .44 spl/magnum, .45 colt/.454 Casull, etc.)  They are identified by the soldered-in carbide ring at the case mouth.

Just any lubricant will not be suitable for case sizing.   Engine oil, grease, etc lack the film strength needed for this high-pressure application.  Any of the commercial brands will do fine: Imperial sizing wax, RCBS, Lee, Lyman, etc.  Even ONE trip into the sizing die without lubricant is enough to badly score the die walls.  You might need to polish it out using 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper wrapped around a 3/8" wood dowel.  Clean using solvent, and relubricate heavily before sizing that first case.

Luckily you can remove the decapping stem from the F.L. sizing die and use a punch to drive out the case.

You can get away without using case lubricant on the .38/.357 because it is a relatively short, straight, untapered case, and the frictional forces (especially with carbide dies) is much less.

HTH
John
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Offline VTDW

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 02:36:16 PM »
Matt,

John is spot on in his advice to you.  Lube it up!!!

Dave 8)
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Offline Throckmorton

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 04:19:15 PM »
Be sure to remove the lube after finishing the round.Just wipe it off with a rag.Also don't overlube or you'll ding the cases when sizing. I think it's pretty safe to say that all rifle cases must be lubed for resizing,at least that's what I've been told,and read over the years.
How big a bullet ya gonna start out with in that thumper? :)
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Offline Redhawk1

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 08:00:32 PM »
45-70 dies do not come in carbide. Get the proper case lube and don't just try any lube. Others here gave you great advice.  :D
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Offline Gun Runner

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 09:10:49 PM »
I use the midway spray lube. I lay out the cases in a row(s) on an old towel, with the necks facing me, spray in an angle as to get some spray inside the neck. I just make one pass over the cases, turn the cases a 1/2 turn and make another pass, let them sit for a couple min. By then they are dry to the touch. Have never had a 45/70 case stick in a die doing it this way. I have a RCBS and a LEE die both.

Gun Runner
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Offline cwlongshot

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2005, 07:58:35 PM »
Personally, I really like the sprey lubes. Dillons is my favorite, it is a lanolin based lube with a achaol carrier.
Hornady one shot is also a top performer, as is Lymans version and both should be easier to find than the Dillon stuff.

The dies will be labled as to what they are. Even if only by number. If only numbered cross referance on the RCBS web site or @ Midway.com. As previously mentioned, the 45-70 is not avalible in carbide. As carbide is limited to straight walled cases. I would think it could be. I realize the walls are tapered, by straight I mean there is no bottle neck.

Did you purchase these dies new? If not, I recomend a really good cleaning!! lubes can and will accumulate inside the die, causing all kinds of problems. ESPECIALLY if its previous owner is overzeallous with his application of lube!!!!

Good luck,
 CW
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Offline fortress49

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What did I do wrong?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2005, 04:44:24 AM »
Thanks everyone for the advice!

I will go out and get some dedicated lube for this application!

I plan on starting out re-loading to the level of the "trapdoor" rifles.  A 400 gn bullet has pretty mild re-coil with these loads.  Even my wife likes to shoot those.  Eventually I will work up but I want to start mild before I go wild just to get the hang of things.  

I am shooting a NEF Handi-rifle.  It is a fine shooter.  I am looking forward to shooting some of my own re-loads.

Thans Again,

Matt
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