Author Topic: What did I do wrong? (Read 1430 times)

fortress49 · « **on:** November 04, 2005, 08:34:40 AM »

Hello,

I posted this on the reloading page as well, but I thought I would post here since this sight gets a lot of traffic and I know there are some reloaders in here...

I am new to reloading having only reloaded for my .38 and .357 magnum.

My next step was to reload for my 45-70. I purchased the dies, shell holders, etc.

When I tried to re-size the cases and deprime, it was very difficult to use the press. The cases were VERY tight. At first, I did not use any lube since I did not think I needed it. Since it was so hard to do, I tried using some lubricant. This was better, but it was still hard to press. I did not use a lubricant that is dedicated to reloading. Is that a mistake? Anyway, the second case that I tried to resize got stuck in the die even with the lube. I had a terrible time getting it out.

The dies that I am using are RCBS dies in a RCBS press. I don't know if they are "carbide" dies or not. How do you tell? (I bought the dies used at a gun show.) When I reload the .38/.357 I use no lube and it works very well. If these are non-carbide dies, I understand I need to use lube. Does it matter what type of lube you use?

Could the dies be defective? Maybe that is why they were for sale at the show? That would be a bummer...

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Matt

Cottonwood · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2005, 09:10:57 AM »

You do need to get yourself some RCBS case lube and a tray w/rubber pad for rolling your cases on. I do this each and every time, and then after sizing wipe each case off, so the lube cannot polute the primer pocket.

I have yet to find carbide dies for the 45-70 or 45-90 cartridges.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2005, 10:08:29 AM »

I use Hornady One Shot on everything from 22Hornet to 45-120, it works great!! After about a minute, it dries and won't foul the powder or primer, works in the case neck, too!! Lay your brass on a towel or in a shallow box with em all lined up, spray once down the line and once back at a light angle into the case mouth, roll em 180Âº, then do it again, it don't get no simpler than that and there's no mess and you can't over do it or mess it up......even for a klutz like me!!!

I also use the Lee Classic Cast press, it's gotta be king of all presses for it's strength and durability from all the kudos I've read about it. One heck of a press!!! It's even rated for the 50BMG!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=438512

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=112442

Cottonwood · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2005, 10:43:02 AM »

Tim

Now why didn't I think of that.... dang sprays, and they dry too :-D

Now ya give me a new addiction.. stuffs prolly been out for ages, and I just never looked for it.. or I'm so blind, I never saw it comin :lol:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2005, 10:54:02 AM »

I'm for doing things the easiest I can find and the One Shot was recommended by Mac, so I tried it and everything was as he said, so I'm still using it, even though I've been temped to use some of the other products just so I can say I tried em. The RCBS lube is used by a lot of reloaders as well as several others I've read about, including a home brewed lube, that people love. I guess it's just a matter of finding a product you have confidence in and sticking with it as long as it works well. If'n it ain't broke, don't fix it!! One thing nice about the One Shot, it's available locally, so I don't need to order it, but so is the RCBS lube!!

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2005, 11:34:45 AM »

I'm using the Frankfort Arsenal (Midway House Brand) spray lube and it also works great.

Ian

Cottonwood · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2005, 11:34:50 AM »

Well RCBS my lube pad holder broke and my lube bottle is empty

So that means I was going to buy some more stuff anyways.... now I'm gonna try the "One Shot"

Thanks Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2005, 11:45:53 AM »

I don't think you'll be disappointed. :wink: BiMart in Havre and Sportsmans Warehouse in Missoula both sell it if'n they're close.

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2005, 11:49:18 AM »

One thing about Hornady one shot, as well as all the spray lubes--you need to make sure that the stuff is completely dry before trying to size your cases or they will surely stick.

I myself prefer the wet lubes, either dillon case lube or the Frankford arsenal clone that midway sells. In my experience they are better as a lube, but the downside is that you should tumble the sized cases before filling them back up, definately if you've inside lubed the necks as well.

For me, this isn't an issue because I'll also do the primer pockets and maybe a trim and chamfer--after all that they need tumbling anyway.

For sheer ease of sizing, and for a small batch, I think nothing beats Imperial sizing die wax

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2005, 12:11:58 PM »

Waiting for it to dry is kind of a non-step, it dries practically immediately, the cases don't need to be saturated, just a quick shot and they're done. By the time I have put the brass in a shell tray, it's long since dry and that's if I don't do something else in the mean time.

I've read all about those other lubes and the wax, sounds interesting but all the caveats puts a halt on the experimentation. I tumble in walnut shell media, lube, resize/deprime, then trim with a Lee trimmer and clean the case off after deburring/champfering while the case is still in the Lee lock stud, which I run with a cordless screwdriver, clean the primer pockets, then prime. Seems like a logical progression of events, so far.

I've also read about using powdered graphite for lubing the necks and it sounds like a good idea, but the One Shot works so good, can't see going to the trouble. I guess that's how Hornaday sees it, too! :wink:

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2005, 12:38:12 PM »

I like to knock the primer out first, using a lee universal decapping die, then lube, size, trim if necessary, then clean the primer pocket last; and then tumble in either walnut of corncob, usually I use corncob to clean up the mess, then polish in Walnut if necessary.

I read somewhere that the worst residue for your bore and tooling is the primer residue because it is very hard, like ceramic, and abrasive. That's why I do the primer pockets last; also using an RCBS case prep center speeds the chamfer/pocket cleanup since I only have to handle each case once for three operations. Makes a big difference when doing hundreds or thousands of cases. I cut my cases to length on an RCBS trimmer adapted for use with a drillmotor--two guys working together can do 1000 cases in about three hours.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2005, 02:12:38 PM »

Quote from: fortress49

Hello,

The dies that I am using are RCBS dies in a RCBS press. I don't know if they are "carbide" dies or not. How do you tell? If these are non-carbide dies, I understand I need to use lube. Does it matter what type of lube you use?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Matt

M'

i doubt the dies are defective. i'm guessing that your lube is lacking!

i use Mobil - 1 synthetic engine oil and Super Tech synthetic engine oil(wal mart's generic synthetic oil) for my case lube. no stuck cases......period. regular engine oil WON'T do it! i recommend rcbs dies and presses, and their lube, unless you want to buy a quart of full-synthetic engine oil for a case lube. that way you can lube 2,486,951 cases without buying another drop of lube. try that with a small bottle/spray bottle of anything else!

the carbide/nitride dies all have a carbide or nitride 'ring' or donut at the bottom of the die that is pressed into place, not being cut or reamed into the die like you normally see with a standard die of just one material. you probably have a carbide or nitride die in your .38/.357, but not in the .45-70. THE .45-70 IS NOT a straight-walled case, so you won't find a carbide die for it. it has too much taper in it.

best regards,

ss'

ps: just a little hint: the .45-70 is a grossly inferior caliber of questionable heritage, poor load density, difficult ignition, and rainbow-like trajectory that is hanging on because of the gentry who find it a novel approach to hunting in the 21st Century. do not imitate their paradigm.

sell that .45-70 and buy a good .44 mag' which will immediately improve your 'stable' by a considerable margin. you will have 90+ % of the .45-70's capability in terms of useable killing power, and you will probably achieve 'target-grade' accuracy with the .44 as well.

but don't tell the other guys that i said so ! :eek:

lizziedog1 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2005, 02:54:59 PM »

The .45-70 is an inferior round? I suppose the Buffalo hunters would have wiped out the herds faster with a 44mag.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2005, 02:59:20 PM »

Matt, just ignore SS, when he comes on here he's usually real helpful, but can be somewhat of a pot stirrer sometimes. :wink:

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2005, 03:18:07 PM »

Probably used them to wipe out the Buffalo because that is about all you can hit with one. I saw a guy with one at the range and he was real proud of a 6 inch group at a hundred yards, so a Buffalo would be about right at 300. Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2005, 03:31:22 PM »

Ahem.....sub moa is the norm for scoped, handloaded 45-70 BCs and Handis. I've seen shooters at the range that couldn't even hit the paper at 25yds, so does that make whatever caliber they were shooting a poor choice? Sheesh, some people's kids! :evil:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=459605&highlight=#459605

safetysheriff · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2005, 03:37:23 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Matt, just ignore SS, when he comes on here he's usually real helpful, but can be somewhat of a pot stirrer sometimes. :wink:

tim,

first off, thank you for the compliment. i do try to be helpful...

secondly, i was only kidding. i've had a long week, like a lot of the guys, and was only being facetous....looking for a laugh. i guess it didn't fly.

regardless of my sincere appreciation for the .44 mag' i'd recommend randy garrett's .45-70 loads for hunting the "baddest of the bad".....ahead of the .44 mag' any day. but i guess i really 'lathered up' one of the guys with my attempt at humor.

www.garrettcartridges.com should get any one interested to a site that deals with .45-70 loads that are the real deal in close-quarters, 'stopper' cartridges. just my opinion, now, dagg-nab-it!

take care,

ss'

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2005, 03:41:23 PM »

I know!!! :wink: You shoulda heard what Mac said to say, he just called me from his huntin area and is stayin in his jeep overnight so he can finish up his stand in the am....If'n he was here, he'd have some rebuttle for ya, but I think we just took the wind outa his sails!!!

Best to ya!!

safetysheriff · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2005, 03:59:01 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg

Probably used them to wipe out the Buffalo because that is about all you can hit with one. I saw a guy with one at the range and he was real proud of a 6 inch group at a hundred yards, so a Buffalo would be about right at 300. Larry

trotter'

Nice handle! I take it, if I'm right, that you like the 'trotters'.

The thought occurs to me that there may be some confusion. I think Tim, and I, both brought up valid points. I've achieved excellent accuracy with the .44 mag'; and I believe it when they say that it has killed All manner of land-dwelling critters. However, I also think that the .45-70 is more of a power house than many realize, with today's loads useable in those great Marlins. The .45-70 is also capable of good accuracy when one knows how to load and handle it.

In my opinion, some write about it without accepting the genuine "felt-recoil" concerns, and abatements, that are possible with that cartridge. And some don't have good luck with the cartridge early on because of ignition problems. So, although I much prefer the .44 for most hunting - by far, I'll agree that the .45-70 also has its merit and actually is worthy of the 'heavy-hitter' recognition that it gets today.

ss'

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2005, 04:10:12 PM »

Yup, that's why I have 2 of em plus the 45-120!!! But, I am thinkin on gettin a 44 mag barrel just so I can see what I can do with it and have another Handi caliber "feather in my hat", so to speak!!!

DanielWGriggs · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2005, 03:13:34 AM »

SS you oughtn'ta ruffle the feathers when ya come breezing through. Someone might take offense. I believe most of that was a quote out of a G&A article from some young'en that has no appreciation for the beloved 06 or the trusted .45 acp. Heck fire he probably don't have a single shot 12 ga standing by the back door either. Thanks for the smile.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2005, 05:20:11 AM »

Quote from: DanielWGriggs

SS you oughtn'ta ruffle the feathers when ya come breezing through. Someone might take offense. I believe most of that was a quote out of a G&A article from some young'en that has no appreciation for the beloved 06 or the trusted .45 acp. Heck fire he probably don't have a single shot 12 ga standing by the back door either. Thanks for the smile.

DWG'

i'm guessing that you know how we try to maintain 'purity' on this site. after all, it is a Family site. that being said, we do try to weed out the infidels that don't keep a single-shot 12-gauge by their back door! it only takes a stroke of a 'delete' key to keep that kind, that Element (!), from postin' on this site. i hope that's plain as day for all to see....... :shock:

ss'

.308 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2005, 08:38:37 AM »

SS, I couldn't ignore the fact the you got a nibble, naw I take that back, you got a bite with that one. :-D And by all means we must maintain "purity." :eek:

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2005, 08:42:48 AM »

Safetyshiriff shame on you stirring the 45 70 shooters up,----------thats my job to get them stirred up with my no knockdown post's. :-D :-D :-D
Also I need to know the speed of sound to calculate a long shot on hog's with my 45 70. I know its exactly 623 yds. to where this hog comes out to water,and I'll have to hold 249 and 3/8" inches high,but if the sound of the shot gets there before the bullet and he bolts for the brush at the sound of the shot,how much lead am I going to have to give him for a neck shot? :-D :-D :-D
SS this beat's your post so hang your head in shame. :-D :-D Digger

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2005, 08:47:19 AM »

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Emoticons/troll.jpg">

lik2hunt · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2005, 10:13:32 AM »

I think I just found a new picture for my avatar.

Digger, just hold that 45-70 at the same angle you would with your compound bow to make a 175 yard shot. Then add three seconds lead to the big porker for the speed of sound factor and you have dead oinker in the freezer. :-D

Ranger J · « **Reply #26 on:** November 05, 2005, 10:50:33 AM »

As much as I like to shoot my .44 even more I love the Â“lookÂ” I get at the firing range when I pull one of those looong brass bullets out for my 45/70. Gee mister, what is that? That my boy is a genuine 45/70, the buffaloÂ’s nemesis. They donÂ’t need to know that it is only a 300g bullet and I am only driving it at about 1450 fps. That kind of instant respectÂ….priceless!
RJ

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 05, 2005, 10:59:16 AM »

Quote from: Ranger J

As much as I like to shoot my .44 even more I love the Â“lookÂ” I get at the firing range when I pull one of those looong brass bullets out for my 45/70. Gee mister, what is that? That my boy is a genuine 45/70, the buffaloÂ’s nemesis. They donÂ’t need to know that it is only a 300g bullet and I am only driving it at about 1450 fps. That kind of instant respectÂ….priceless!
RJ

You think that's priceless, try that with one of these bad boys!! OMG is more the response!!! That little one on the left is a 45-70 with a 300gr NP

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #28 on:** November 05, 2005, 01:52:47 PM »

I still wish someone would give me the speed of sound,so I could go shoot the big boy. :-D :-D :-D .Also,Quick were in the world did you get the picture of Lik2hunt? :-D :-D :-D
Also have you chronoed any of those 45 120's? Digger

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 05, 2005, 02:16:05 PM »

That pic is one of Lik2hunt's childhood photos!!! :-D :-D :-D

Haven't run the 45-120 loads over the chrono yet, only goin by what the Lyman book says they might be going. That's one of my winter projects that isn't gettin done yet!!! I think it will become a spring project!!!! :oops: