Author Topic: SQUIB!!!!  (Read 1122 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dustee Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
SQUIB!!!!
« on: November 05, 2005, 02:07:07 PM »
The very first shot out of my USFMC .45 Colt today was a squib!  It was no problem getting the bullet out of the barrel but it ruined my trip to the range (the first in about a month).  It also placed a big question mark in my head about my Dillon 550B.  Perhaps there is something I have to change about my reloading technique. These things happen I guess.

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2005, 02:57:53 PM »
first off,  glad nothing bad happened.  something obviously went wrong....

but dont be blaming it on the machine.  your problem doesnt lie there.  somehow you must have made a mistake when loading.  one really has to watch what they are doing when using a progressive press.   THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DISTRACTIONS OF ANY KIND!!!! that is a good rule for reloading, but especially so when using a progressive press.    

pay attention to every thing you do.  one of the things that amazed me about the dillon was that i could still feel everything working, each individual step, even though they are all happening at once.   if you are paying attention,  you will know if something isnt quite right.

understand,  i am not out to chastise you,  just trying to put you on the right path to rectifing your problem.   best of luck.

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2005, 03:48:16 PM »
Glad nothing worse happened!  Hard to believe the 550 is still available as a manual indexing press. The 650 is what the 550 should be. Too bad you have to pay the extra price to get a real progressive press. The manual indexing is the primary cause of squibs and double charges. A 550 is just a turret press with a powder measure and primer feed attached. I've loaded tons of ammo on the 550, it's a well built machine, but, the 650 is the way to go. As the previous poster pointed out, NO distractions!  Bet I get beat up pretty bad for this post! Good luck.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26944
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2005, 05:02:24 PM »
Dusty, I thought you were going back to the original username. Are there still problems with that account? Thought we had it fixed.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2005, 05:09:06 PM »
not going to beat up on you,  but i am going to tell you 3 reasons why i like the 550 over the 650 (yes,  i had them both-the 650 now resides with my brother).

1.   if something goes wrong during a cycle,  it is way easier to correct with the 550.  like not picking up a primer, as that was my primary issue.  sometimes it was cause i ran out,  other times cause the feed had a little grit on it.  with the 650, it can be done but you REALLY have to be thinking.  

2.   caliber conversion costs- this is very self explaintory

3.   the primer feed assembly.  if for some reason you stop and remove a cartridge during the cycle,  you start losing primers.   it can be a real p.i.t.a. to get back on track.     *i know i didnt explain this as well as i wanted to, but i got a few distractions going on now and cant find the right way of phrasing what i am thinking-guys that have used them know what i am talking about*

even so,  the 650 is a fine machine.  but you have to pay twice as much attention to them,  and sometimes the simpler, the better.   the main reason i kept the 550 over the 650 was twofold- price of caliber conversions.   the second- my buddy has a 550 all set up for every caliber i use and load for and loans me any of his conversion kits i need until i piece together my own collection.  

either way,  i think the dillon machines are the cat's meow.

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2005, 06:22:04 PM »
That is why I personally prefer a single stage press. The more moving parts the more room for problems. That is just my opinion. I know people have great success with the  progressive presses, but they are just not for me.  :D
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Iowegan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005, 05:13:22 AM »
Savage, Yes, you deserve to get some feedback on the 550. I won't argue that you can double charge or not charge at all with a 550 but so can you with even a single stage press. When you reload, you should concentrate on what you are doing. If you are distracted, you need to check all the cases in the shell holder to see where you are.

Being somewhat paranoid about squibs and double charges, I designed a light kit for my 550. Each time I push the handle forward to prime, an arm swings over the "just been powdered" case and a bright light is switched on. This allows you to see clear to the flash hole on an empty straight wall case. After a few loads, you can easily determine if a powder charge is light or heavy. It doesn't measure the charge, just gives you a visual. The 650 powder check station has about the same accuracy.



With the 550, you can insert or remove a case from any station. You can also use the press like a single stage or a turret press. No other Dillon press has this feature. Example: say you want to just size and deprime a batch of cases. The 550 will allow this because the shell holder doesn't automatically advance. Or how about when you do screw up and advance the shell holder without pulling the handle all the way down. No problem, you just reverse the shell holder one click. Try those operations on a SDB, 1050, or a 650. When I buy new cases, I get primed cases because they are cheaper than buying the cases and primers seperate. With the 550, no problem; just insert the primed case in station 2 and keep truckin'.

I ran into some primer feed problems with CCI primers. I called Dillon and their suggested fix was using Winchester primers. I had just bought a brick of a thousand CCIs and decided to try my own fix. I replaced the plastic primer follower rod with a rod made from brass tubing. The extra weight pushing down on the primers fixed the problem. I haven't had a primer feed issue since.

I once ran out of powder while loading some 223s. Too much concentration on the function and I failed to notice the hopper was empty. I thought about buying Dillon's Low Powder Sensor but after looking at it I decided to make my own. I used the Low Primer buzzer and made the following:

It works great for loading rifle when you only get a couple hundred loads per pound of powder. I never use it with pistol loading because the hopper will hold more than enough powder for a large batch of ammo.

I'm not saying the 550 is the best press in the world but it is exactly what I wanted after trying other Dillons and other brands.
GLB

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2005, 12:18:11 PM »
The 550 is a good solid press. I used one for about 8yrs before trading for a pair of Russian SKSs.
Cheers,
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Tom C.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2005, 01:29:52 AM »
I had a Dillon 450 that I used for years. Manual primer feed and manual powder feed. I got distracted by a bunch of Berdan primed .45 ACP cases and managed to double charge a case. I blew up a very nice 1911. I noticed after that, that Dillon would convert a 450 to a 550 for $50, do I did that. I haven’t had any problems since. Still have to pay attention, but the auto powder and primer makes things easier and faster.
By the way, I had the 1911 rebuilt by Novak with a ramped Kart barrel and it is better than ever.
Tom

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2005, 04:34:51 AM »
:D Even using my old single stage press I had a squid or two.  I found the best way to prevent them was to turn the TV off.  I knew it was a bad idea when my son routed cable to the shop.

I call em TV loads. :roll:  :roll:

Offline jar-wv

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 111
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2005, 05:20:59 AM »
I have a 550 and like it. The only problem i've had with it is the primer slide sticking. I started out on the Rockchucker and still use it for all of my rifle loads. I agree about paying close attention to whats going on at all times. I don't try for speed in the Dillon, but rather concentrate on trying to watch and feel all the operations going on at the same time.

The only time I've ever had any problems with squibs was reloading for the 454 Cassull using H110. I think the bullets backed out enough during recoil of the previous rounds as to prevent ignition of the powder. Lee Factory Crimp die solved that problem.

jar

Offline ZZTOP

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Help for squibs
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2005, 01:50:38 PM »
One way I keep from having a bad day at the range after a squib is to take with me a hard plastic hammer and a ceramic sharpening stick.

When Ive gotten a squib in the past I would take the gun apart and use the stick (you could also use a dowel or a metal bolt wrapped in eletrical tape) to tap the bullet out of the barrel.

Happy shooting
ZZTOP

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2005, 03:00:37 PM »
A good hardwood dowel or a brass squib rod works great and doesn't damage the barrel crown or rifiling like a steel or ceramic rod might.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Dustee Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2005, 08:56:17 PM »
I've refined my loading procedure and make doggone sure I index right after the handle comes back up.  I can live with an occasional squib but the double charge scares the begeebers out of me.  

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2005, 02:42:32 AM »
i have friend that wants to borrow my 1894 44 for his son deer hunting in a week,  but wants some light recoiling gun.  i pulled out some of my lower velocity loads, and due to this thread,  got to thinking.    how can one double check after he loads some ammo?  weight is the only answer i could come up with.  

 i have been wanting a digital scale for quite awhile now,  and this was just the excuse i was needing.  so i went out and got me a dillon digital scale.   this morning i went through two boxes of ammo, and weighed each loaded cartrige.  i found three in each box that were 5 grains heavier than the rest.   so i seperated them,  and this afternoon i will be pulling the bullets on these cartridges and weighing the different components to see why there is a weight difference.    i know it could be alot of different things; but i figure the biggest three contributers is going to be the bullet,  the powder, and the brass.    

i will post up results tonight.....

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2005, 08:47:24 AM »
The combined weight variation of the brass and the bullet can account for that much in the .44 mag. If you were loading a powder with a charge weight simular to 2400, a double charge might be detectable by weighing. Still, never hurts to check!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2005, 10:20:04 AM »

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2005, 12:19:18 PM »
I bought a digital scale from Cabella's a year or so ago. Still have my old beam scale, don't use either one very much anymore. I just verify charge weights on my progressive from time to time. Sure is nice tho!!
Glad you didn't have a double charge in the lot.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline lostone1413

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 197
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 01:57:54 PM »
Happened to me awhile back using a 550. Cost me a Kimber. What I did was go with RCBS DIES in my Dillon. That way one die seats and crimps instead of having to use two dies to do it like you do with the Dillon Dies. With an extra station after the powder measure I put an RCBS LOCK OUT DIE. What that does is if it doesn't throw a charge or you get a double charge it locks the press up Then you know that something is wrong with the charge in the case.You can't use the press until you fix the case with a a double charge or no charge. I get just as good a reload using the RCBS Dies as I did with the Dillon Dies but now odds of getting a squib are as close to zero as you can get

Offline Dustee Miller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
SQUIB!!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2005, 05:59:46 AM »
That's an interesting concept.  I'm thinking that the advantage of having separate seating and crimping dies is not as important as avoiding a squib or double charge.  I'm going to check that out.

Offline unspellable

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
squib
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2005, 08:03:48 AM »
It's not always a misload.  I had a squib with my rifle.  The primer went, shoved the bullet about six inches up the spout.  When I opened the action and took the case out I spilled the powder in the action.  It looked like the intended charge, certainly more than two thirds of a charge.  I think it was the intended charge as I was working up a load and only loading four cases at a time with a hand press.  Hard to get distracted loading only four cases.