What Would Indicate A Need To "Bugout"?

[deltecs]

deltecs- I agree on reading "Lucifers Hammer".  Your insights into remote living are eye opening. Sounds like your children were very lucky to receive such an education.

rz- you see a flood of the great unwashed? My education is lacking. Who is Ron Hood?

my in-laws have a great cabin in a small town. Their childhood home town so they are well known. IF I was still married, that is where I would head. Now, not so much

Thank you for your generous comments.  Our children are both college grads now, after we sent them to a public school from the 9th grade onward.  While still in high school, both lived alone in their own apartments that my wife and I paid for, while we lived remote.  I trusted them to stay out of trouble and if we did not teach them correctly by then, nothing would.  Both knew our rules and I expected them to live by them, or they would pay all the bills and be responsible for their own actions.  Neither gave us any trouble, whatsoever.  They learned how to cook, do laundry, dishes and housekeeping while at home, which kept them steadfast and somewhat self sufficient when on their own.  We have had crew members over 21 that did not know, what they knew at 10.  Both are avid readers and have learned much from books and common sense application from them.  Needless to say, we are both very proud parents and grandparents now.  My wife and I live here by ourselves, sometimes for more than 7 months before we see another human.  We still make each other laugh and enjoy our time together after 37 years.  We both could have maybe done more in life, but what we have done is live well, within our means, and now are reaping the benefits of a lot of hard work.  I cannot stress the expensive lifestyle of living remotely.  It costs a lot to set up, to be effective and comfortable. 

[rzwieg]

deltecs is right remote retreats aren't cheap to set up. In fact it's nearly outrageous.

If your retreat is in a rural area, you may have to contend with clueless displaced urban dwellers.

[SharonAnne]

   "run for your lives! the cherokees is escaped from fort mudge!! "  Walt Kelly - Pogo 

[rzwieg]

I had to Google that. Seems my education is lacking. 

[Elijah Gunn]

I think I would only bug out in case of a flood, to avoid nuclear fallout ,or chemical attack.

[deltecs]

There are times that one cannot predict with any accuracy when to bug out.  For instance, an earthquake, tornado, tidal wave, nuclear disaster, terrorism, and a host of others.  The time to prepare for short term survival is always.  Keep a supply of water and food on hand, medical and medicine, staples, FLASHLIGHTS AND BATTERIES, defense weapons, and clothing suitable for the climate, not weather.  2 years ago, a tsunami warning was issued from the coast of Alaska all the way to Southern California from the under sea quake near the Kurile Islands sometime during winter.  My wife and I were at home when we heard the warning.  There was a severe storm at the time, blowing snow, and 6' of heavy wet snow behind the house.  There was no way we were going to survive the ocean waves, walk the fields to high ground behind the house with enough survival equipment, or anything else.  We knew the wave was coming, just not if it was going to be dangerous.  Then I thought, wait a minute.  This property with an old cabin on ground piling survived the tidal wave from Alaska's 1964 earthquake, which devasted most all the buildings and native villiages in Prince William Sound including the entire town of Valdez.  If it survived this tidal wave then it probably would survive a wave from the Kuril Islands.  I wasn't worried about surviving now, but the total destruction of my home site.  Even then we could salvage material, tools, food, and a host of other things we could not possible carry through the snow, so in actuality had our survival nest egg.  We could have survived the winter or until I got a boat repaired for travel during calmer weather.  The wave actually measured about 6" at Adak and less than 2" here, so there was not any damage, but there could have been.  At least now I think we could have survived the 1964 tidal wave here.  That doesn't do anything for terrorism or nuclear fallout though.  But we can't control all aspects of our life and take our chances accordiingly.  At least I'm living a good life and not bored.

[slim rem 7]

 the anarchy that may follow natural dissaster would be what may cause me to,,[ post term] bug out  
  id sure hate to be put in a position of not sharing ,,and know that neighbor would probably die or be killed because of it.. ill wait until it happens and do what i think is best.. ..

[deltecs]

Our economic situation is of real concern.  I'm fortunate that I've prepared for these days for over 20 years now.  We have at least a years supply of canned goods, paper products, tools, firewood, propane, and almost an entire general store of batteries, dry goods, clothing, footwear, filters, standard repair and maintanance parts and plenty of fuel.  My 75' commercial fishing tender holds over 10,000 gals of diesel and it is full.  It also holds 2,000 gals of gas and it is full.  I also have 3,000 gal of diesel storage on shore and 2500 gal are there in addition.  My outboards, speedboat, and aluminum skiffs are in excellent mechanical condition.  I owe less than $50,000 and have enough in savings to pay it off.  I have my retirement, which while may be reduced will still have some equity.  If food becomes in short supply, my fishing permits and location will bring in more money than ever before due increased prices for this mandatory commodity.  At least we will eat, hunt, have heat, lights, transportation, and excess money to invest during hard times.  I cannot think of a different situation right at these current tough economic times, which has the potential to increase my personal lifestyle and profits more.  I pity those who did not foresee these times of economic uncertainty.  I've been planning and preparing for these days since the Vietnam War and civil unrest of the late 60's and early 70's.  It has taken a while, but now I don't have to bug out as I'm ideally located for any recession or depression with all the amenities and supplies for years to come, if used wisely.

[SharonAnne]

deltecs, I don't suppose you have a small out cabin you would rent to a disabled RN?

[deltecs]

deltecs, I don't suppose you have a small out cabin you would rent to a disabled RN?

I think my brothers, kids and grandkids will have occupied all the living quarters by then, but who knows?

[SharonAnne]

Health care is something often forgotten in long term disaster planning. Including a Doctor or RN in your group should be considered. I was speaking in jest regarding me but it is something to be looked at. RNs that have worked the floor for years in a general hospital have a wealth of knowledge not available in any school or to the general public. A family practice physician would be even better. As always, look into it now, later will be too late.

[deltecs]

Health care is something often forgotten in long term disaster planning. Including a Doctor or RN in your group should be considered. I was speaking jest regarding me but it is something to be looked at. RNs that have worked the floor for years in a general hospital have a wealth of knowledge not available in any school or to the general public. A family practice physician would be even better. As always, look into it now, later will be too late.

I did consider your intent and understood the sublety.  The biggest surpise living remote I've discovered is, you don't get ill.  There isn't any rate of infection due population masses.  No colds or flu to speak of.  Injury or disease is our major concern and even with a physician, most of the time it would run the course without proper medication which would be unlikely to obtain under the duress I'm thinking of.

[ironglow]

  IMO..The greatest challenge should chaos occur, would be roving bands of marauders robbing and killing. one man or one man and his family even in a fairly well prepared place, cannot hold off such a mob for an extended period of time. That is why I believe that the small, rural hamlet is an ideal place to be in such an event...especially if far from cities ..is ideal.
    Let's "learn from history"..let's look at how our ancestors coped with a similar situation, such as when they were pioneers moving into the wilderness to live possibly, among bands of roving marauders..
   As was with Daniel Boone and his contemporaries, We would need "community" (e.g.Boonesboro, Harrodsburg) so we could post a proper guard, form a small militia and be able to muster a defense that would encourage the bands to go elsewhere ..for "easy pickings".
Alone, I have my brain/experience to rely upon, as a family I have however many adult brains/experiences to rely upon; with community, I have numerous brains/experiences to rely upon Alone, if I needed to go hunt some venison cut wood or collect some herbs, I would have to leave my family to their devices while I make my foray. Community could set up such chores with security in mind.
   My little crossroads hamlet has within 1/2 mile of me mechanics, builders, a blacksmith (myself), nurses, a couple veterinarians, skills of all sorts plus many hunters, trappers, special ops veterans, all good shots and already armed, that we could build a defense around, have reasonable medical help, scientific knowledge and good foraging ability.

  I honestly believe small community is the way to go.

[SharonAnne]

Exactly what I have been saying all along. Select your 'retreat'. Move there NOW. BE the kind of neighbor you would love to have. BE of value to the community. If you just show up you are just one more refugee for the community to feed and possibly of no value to the community.

[deltecs]

Luckily my residence is very remote and accessible only by boat or float plane.  It would take quite a bit for a gang of roving marauders to surprise me by either.  Most marauders would chose the easier path along highways and areas more accessible with more plunder available.  In addition, if the worst case scenario should come to pass, my family, 3 prime age brothers with their wives, adult children, near adult children and sibling relative would come here.  This would amount to a small community of over 40 people, sharing the work and security.  The buildings are already in place, the fuel, the means and methods of survival, tools, and the location are all in place.  I'm prepared for almost anything, not everything but almost. 

[torpedoman]

If Hillary ends up in the white house with Pelosie still the speaker, It may be about time.

Obama makes that witch look good

[SharonAnne]

Deltecs, do you need an RN? I am a life member of USPSA. I own an AR15 with the parts for 2 more, a 1911, a p14-45, a Para 9x23, 12ga 1100, 12ga 870 and a Dillon 1050.

[deltecs]

Who knows?  I'm not in panic mode just yet nor ready for doom and gloom, but I am prepared in case it happens.  I've seen stranger things come to pass.  When it is time to bug out, people will know and can make plans accordingly.  I'm not adverse as yet to others but family comes first. 

[ironglow]

  Deltecs;
  Yopur situation sounds almost ideal. You can mount a good defense, already would have a small community and certainly enough defense and self sustainability that gangs would rather find more a opportune target.
  Not too likely they will even try your remote island in the first place, especially knowing that where you live you are highly likely to be hardy enough to make any attempts very costly to them..

[bilmac]

Deltecs has another advantage which is the huge productivity of the northern pacific ocean. He and his will never go hungry there.

I'm afraid that too many people think that the intermountain west is a place to take refuge. They see the wide open spaces and think that there will be plenty to survive on. There is reason that the spaces are wide open, the land is basically unproductive. Precipitation is very low in the rain shadow of the rockies, and in the mountains where there is more moisture, the winter is so severe that most mammals migrate out. When this area was first homesteaded, game animals were quickly wiped out.

I'm afraid a lot of people will die from basic ignorance about the natural world if we were really forced into it.

[dogsoldier0513]

I'm a former member of www.alpharubicon.com.  I went by 'shooter' on that board.  I currently reside on the top of a 75-foot bluff overlooking the Tennessee River in an area of Alabama collectively referred to as The Shoals.  While my back is to the river, my property is surrounded by an 8-foot concrete and wrought iron wall/fence, complete with electoronic gate.  My house is brick, has 2 fireplaces, a full basement and reinforced concrete storm cellar with access from inside the house.  My neighbors are former Vietnam Rangers and Gulf War Marines. Not my idea of 'ideal', but defensible.  I also have 340 acres with 2 spring-fed creeks, timber, hay fields and plenty of game within 1.5 hours of my primary residence. 

[ironglow]

 Dog soldier;
  You are probably in very good shape (IMO). One further thing you could do is work out at least a rough plan of action, should the SHTF.
  It may seem heartless but the key as I see it, is just to be less vulnerable than the next source for the bad guys.

[SHOOTALL]

the more you have the more you have to watch . One nuke mis-hap and you will have to  leave the area with what you can carry if given the time to load . Ironglow gives wise advice .

[dogsoldier0513]

Dog soldier;
  You are probably in very good shape (IMO). One further thing you could do is work out at least a rough plan of action, should the SHTF.
  It may seem heartless but the key as I see it, is just to be less vulnerable than the next source for the bad guys.

We already have a Neighborhood Watch in place. It would be a simple matter to organize armed patrols.  There are (2) 100ft.+ water towers at the top pf a hill, 2 blocks up from me.  Their uses are only limited by one's imagination.

[bilmac]

I still remember a water tower in Viet Nam with water running out of bullet holes.

[SHOOTALL]

A good spot to one side is most likely good to the other side also !
There was a book out a few years back " the citizen solider " made mention that if you shot from a position 6 times or less  you better expect return fire and be able to evacuate under cover . Water towers ? Death trap ?

[dogsoldier0513]

Who said the water towers HAD to be used for direct fire? They make excellent OPs.

[ironglow]

  One thing I warned my Marine grandson about before his first deployment to Iraq..knowing he was to be a designated sniper & "overwatch" for his unit, I warned him about taking such a mount as a tower or minaret, that allows no good way to changing position or easy escape.
   He didn't take such a position, but his unit accounted for enemy snipers that did. One need not even hit the sniper...just bring his perch down..

[dogsoldier0513]

Near the end of the movie, "Saving Private Ryan", I could not believe the U.S. GI sniper placed himself in the ONLY OBVIOUS 'sniper hide' position......and as pointed out, had NO means of escape/exfiltration w/o being seen, shot, caught, etc.

[ironglow]

  In reality, as you mentioned..a sniper should never place himself in the "obvious" sniper spot. He should be just another part of the landscape, standing out as little as possible...and able to move, should the need arise..