Author Topic: You gotta have BIG BRASS ONES (Read 1595 times)

prairie boy · « **on:** November 06, 2005, 03:44:53 PM »

Hey guys check this out http://www.ebaumsworld.com/lionhunt.html you gotta have guts, check out the PH down on knee with leg out front saying lets dance WOW close call.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2005, 03:51:25 PM »

All I can say is wow... :eek: It's a wounder no one got shot there with all those shots being fired. :shock:

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2005, 11:28:43 AM »

Old film. Been around a few years now. The hunter should have held his fire and not shot while the Lion was moving. Lucky no one was hurt or killed with all the shooting from all the different directions. Lastly it does show that even a canned hunt can go wrong. Lawdog

LFaler · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2005, 06:32:44 PM »

Apparently someone did get killed. One of the trackers in the background on the far right took one in the chest near the end of the film. This is of course second hand information from an outfitter in africa, so who knows if it is true.

crow_feather · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:21:52 AM »

I saw it right off. That huntin fella was using a 375 H H and his hunting buddy was using one a them Rigbys. Nothin like a 416 Rem Mag for lion

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2005, 10:28:01 AM »

crow_feather,

Quote

Nothin like a 416 Rem Mag for lion

:-D

:-D :-D Everyone knows the .416 Rigby is a better choice for dangerous game.

Lawdog
:toast:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 11:43:57 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

crow_feather,

Quote
Nothin like a 416 Rem Mag for lion

:-D :-D :-D Everyone knows the .416 Rigby is a better choice for dangerous game. Lawdog
:toast:

crow_feather is just upset he got stuck with a 416 Rem Mag and really wanted a 416 Rigby... :-D

jro45 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2005, 03:11:43 AM »

The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

Lawdog · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2005, 03:49:08 AM »

Quote from: jro45

The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D

The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2005, 08:26:13 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Quote from: jro45
The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

You tell him Lawdog.. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

jro45 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:09:05 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Quote from: jro45
The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

The Rigby can't go as high in pressures as the Rem thats a fact!!!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2005, 09:48:06 AM »

Quote from: jro45

Quote from: Lawdog
Quote from: jro45
The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

The Rigby can't go as high in pressures as the Rem thats a fact!!!

You are right, but it will out perform the 416 Remington with less pressure. All that pressure is not needed. Pressure does not equal performance.

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2005, 10:02:03 AM »

Quote from: jro45

Quote from: Lawdog
Quote from: jro45
The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

The Rigby can't go as high in pressures as the Rem thats a fact!!!

Says who? :? The following two loads are what I am using in my Ruger M77 Magnum .416 Rigby with no pressure signs of any kind.

105.4 gr. of H4350 for 2,653 fps behind a 400 gr. Barnes TSX or Banded Solid
106.5 gr. of H4350 for 2,814 fps. behind a 350 gr. Barnes TSX or Banded Solid

The only reason the factory loads for the Rigby are so low is to accommodate the older rifles that are still around. The newer rifle such as the Ruger, Rigby, CZ, etc., will handle pressures up those of the .416 Remington, .458 Lott and larger. Sorry but the best hope for the .416 Remington is that someday it will grow up to be a .416 Rigby. Lawdog

jro45 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2005, 03:26:33 AM »

I don't shoot barnes bullets. I know that they will go faster Lawdog. I could match your voloscitys with barnes bullets if I wanted to. But the Rigby has a lot of experience shooting at lower pressure levels. I know Ruger makes good rifles. Is yours a ruger? If it isn't I wouldn't take it to high
pressure levels. But the Rem can handle them.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:59:04 AM »

Quote from: jro45

I don't shoot barnes bullets. I know that they will go faster Lawdog. I could match your voloscitys with barnes bullets if I wanted to. But the Rigby has a lot of experience shooting at lower pressure levels. I know Ruger makes good rifles. Is yours a ruger? If it isn't I wouldn't take it to high
pressure levels. But the Rem can handle them.

The CZ will handle high pressure loads, also my Encore barrel will. It is not just barnes bullets that will give you high velocities. But Lawdog has it right. The factory rounds are not loaded hot, but all the newer guns will handle the higher pressures.

jro45 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2005, 08:20:25 AM »

Redhawk , I know the newer 416 caliber rifles can handle the pressures that Saami has listed for them and that includes the Rem 416 as well as
the
Rigby. What Lawdog indicates is that his gun can pass the the Saami pressure limit witch is all well and good but I don't want to be around him when it does. The barnes bullets go a little faster then normal bullets like the Nosler bullets go alot faster. With a normal load in my 416 the Noslers go
2503 fps and normal bullets go 2400 fps. I can get them to go faster but why their already over the ft lbs needed to kill an elphant. I don't think there are any dinorsors around. With the Rigby the noslers go with a max load of RL22 2515 fps Witch put you way over the max ft lbs needed. So the only thing that our xxx is proving is nothing
The Rem is listed a little higher than the Rigby. That is the hole argument.
A week or so I was with my hunting partner at the range he had his 458 and a conagraph and some lods he loaded up . So we fired a couple thru his cona----- and they were reading 2250 fps that is what the lott is supp
ose to shoot at the begining but can go higher. Well his shells were spliting
But he kept fireing away. I told him and then I left. lucky for him nothing happened.

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2005, 10:30:13 AM »

jro45,

Quote

What Lawdog indicates is that his gun can pass the the Saami pressure limit witch is all well and good but I don't want to be around him when it does.

NO I didn't say, indicate or insinuate anything like that at all. What I was saying is "factory" ammo for the .416 Rigby is loaded to the original pressure levels that were established for the .416 Rigby when it was first introduced in 1911. Many rifles manufactured back then won't hold up to the pressures like those made today. My .416 Rigby(and it's bigger brother my .450 Rigby) is a Ruger M77 Magnum(in the case of the .450 Rigby a re-barreled M77 Magnum). As for the loads I posted they are no where near maximum but are way ahead of what the .416 Remington can do. You push a .416 Remington to those levels and I hope you have good health insurance. the .416 Rigby can be loaded to levels very near the mighty .416 Weatherby. Modern brass for the Rigby is as strong as that for the .416 Remington. Comparing powder capacity of the .416 Rigby is 106.684 grains and the .416 Remington is 90.592 grains shows how much powder you can put into each case. Sorry but the Remington just dosn't match up to the Rigby.

Lawdog

P.S. - By the way 'Redhawk1' is right about the CZ and the Encore rifles holding up to modern pressures that modern handloads for the .416 Rigby can develope. LD

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:44:41 PM »

jro45, I have to agree with Lawdog and the load data. How can a 416 Rem with a max load of about 10 gr.s less of powder equal the 416 Rigby???

Also your shooting buddy, and I am sure it is the same one I have seen Phil T. He is going to get himself hurt one of these days, loading like that. I won't shoot when he comes to the range, he swept me and one of my buddies with a loaded shotgun at the range one time. He took it out of the case and checked it and it was loaded. My buddy and I left before it got ugly.

jro45 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2005, 02:20:21 AM »

Redhawk, With a shell that is a little smaller and holds a little less powder
the pressures are higher. And they may be the same of the larger shell. Thats like the 357 sig those bullets go 1400 to 1500 fps but in a the 9mm they can only reach 1200 maybe 1250 fps. It all in the gun power and the shape of the shell. Good shooting to you!!

jro45 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2005, 02:45:47 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Quote from: jro45
Quote from: Lawdog
Quote from: jro45
The 416 Rem is a better rifle hands down but the Rigby can almost push a 400 gr bullet as fast as the Rem. within Sammi limits

:-D The .416 Remington can't touch the .416 Rigby when loaded to the same pressures levels. :-D Lawdog

The Rigby can't go as high in pressures as the Rem thats a fact!!!

Says who? :? The following two loads are what I am using in my Ruger M77 Magnum .416 Rigby with no pressure signs of any kind.

105.4 gr. of H4350 for 2,653 fps behind a 400 gr. Barnes TSX or Banded Solid
106.5 gr. of H4350 for 2,814 fps. behind a 350 gr. Barnes TSX or Banded Solid

The only reason the factory loads for the Rigby are so low is to accommodate the older rifles that are still around. The newer rifle such as the Ruger, Rigby, CZ, etc., will handle pressures up those of the .416 Remington, .458 Lott and larger. Sorry but the best hope for the .416 Remington is that someday it will grow up to be a .416 Rigby. Lawdog

The fastest I can load a barnes bullet 400 gr in my Rem 416 is 2584 fps with 81 gr of RL15. Witch is a normal load for my 400gr bullets. And I have shot those bullets at that velocity. Hated to do because they are barnes bullets and they fill my barrel full of copper.

Lawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2005, 11:04:55 AM »

jro45,

Quote

Hated to do because they are barnes bullets and they fill my barrel full of copper.

What version of Barnes bullets were you shooting? I get no more copper fouling from the new TSX bullets than any other copper jacketed bullet. Now the old original Barnes bullets they did foul quite a bit. The X bullet was a quite a bit better but stilled fouled some. Just curious is all. Lawdog

jro45 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2005, 03:51:00 PM »

Lawdog, I was shooting the old style solids. I know you say the TSX don't give you as much copper and I haven't bought any yet.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2005, 03:55:12 PM »

Quote from: jro45

Lawdog, I was shooting the old style solids. I know you say the TSX don't give you as much copper and I haven't bought any yet.

Time to try them... :-D

jro45 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2005, 03:34:00 AM »

I really don't need to get much over 2400 with the 400 gr bullet to have 5,114 ft lbs of killing power and thats with a hornady bullet. With a Nosler
400 gr bullet I get 2503 FPS with 81 gr of RL15 and I have some of them.
Good shooting to ya!!