Author Topic: 25 acp breechplug plugging?? (Read 666 times)

spenceinva · « **on:** November 07, 2005, 08:39:01 AM »

I bought a 25 acp breechplug for my encore lastyear and like it. I have no issues with it, my muzzleloader still needs to be cleaned every 3 or 4 shots but I can live with that. My question is this, my load is 85 grains of FFF blackpowder with the 295 lead Powerbelt. I've shot this same load for the past 9 years or so in my Knight and my Encore (encore since 99). Anyhow, I was hunting on Saturday missed my first shot at a doe, reloaded and killed another doe about ten minutes later. Reloaded again and as I was towards the doe I had just killed, another comes walking up to within 30-40 feet of me. I put the gun up, pull the trigger and the gun clicks, I go through the 3 other shells I have in my pocket with the same result. I had the same thing happen first day last year, had killed a deer and while loading it in the truck had a fox come by and pulled the trigger on it 4-5 times with same non firing happening. This is cured by cleaning gun but I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem? I also have not had a chance to see if the hole is getting blocked and if a vent pick of some sort would solve the problem. I tend to just tear the gun down quickly and clean it. Never had this trouble with the 209 just the 25 acp.

Thanks,
Spence

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2005, 09:50:21 AM »

What I can tell is that black powder is a lot dirtier than triple7 or other BP substitutes. BP has a tendency to clog up nipples also. As far as with the 209, they are so hot and powerful it blows out any fouling in the breach plug.

Stan M. · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2005, 03:37:53 PM »

Must be an epidemic. I had the same problem Saturday. I had the problem at the range earlier. This was the second time around firing the cases. No problem on the first firings. I'm using BM3 and 777.
My Encore would do nothing when the hammer fell. If you held the rifle up to the light, you could see a small gap where the action was not shutting properly. Hence the cases were a touch too long. You open the action several times and close it and it would fire and you did not see the hairline gap between the barrel and the action.
I did a rush job trimming the cases before hunting Sat. At first light I had deer coming down side of the cotton field grunting and I heard my first live snort wheeze. When I finally saw the buck grunting in the cotton and fired and missed. I rushed the shot and blew it. Buck fever I guess. :cry: The another buck that was with him, traveled by and stopped as I reloaded. I clicked two off at him before he bolted. :x I went and trimmed .005 off the cases and fired them all again after closing the action easily. The is also no visible gap between the barrel and action.
If anyone has had a similar problem or my prognosis is wrong please let me know.
Thanks,
Stan

spenceinva · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2005, 04:08:45 PM »

My problem may be different but I'll check. My 25 cases are all new and they all had dents in the primer. The gun would close and the hammer would drop but no firing. I checked the cases, the ones I looked at had fiired. If it happens again I'll look at the cases more closely and the breechplug. I'm going to try and find a vent pick or nipple pick to clear the breechplug hole after every shot. I lean towards the fff fouling being the problem, if I get a chance to hunt before the end of Va's muzzleloading season I'll post. I'm stuck in Maui until Sunday, at least I got to hunt opening morning.

SpenceinHawaii dammit!

Stan M. · « **Reply #4 on:** November 07, 2005, 04:42:59 PM »

Spence,
There were dents in my primers as well, but they did not ignite. I'm using CCI 400's. If you open the action and closed it hard a couple of times that would fire that same dented primer. Weird, but I had this problem once in a TCR 87 with a bottleneck cartridge and headspace. You can look at the action without a case and see no gap and then with a problem case inserted and see a fine hairline gap, when I look at it with a good light behind it. I first thought my Encore problem was a clogged breech plug but that was not the case.
Hope this helps and I hope I don't have the problem again.
Take Care,
Stan

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2005, 09:20:56 PM »

A potential problem that was not mentioned is setting the primers a little off the base and not compressing the anvil to touch the primer material. If a primer is not set firmly it is possible that the first hit will dent the primer but not set it off and will set the primer deeper into the seat so that a second hit will fire. I have had this problem with 38spl. cases in my revolvers shooting practical pistol. I now seat the primers firmly and with new brass this can be a problem if you are not familiar with how firm the primer has to be set. Primers are shipped with the anvil slightly off the base and must be set firmly enough to move the anvil to an activated position.

TCAS · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2005, 12:53:20 PM »

I have had a similiar problem happen twice with the 25 ACP priming system. One of the primers was clearly not seated square. The other time I could not determine why the primer did not detonate.

Reloading has been a hobby of mine for about 25 years. I have never had a primer NOT detonate on any of the multitude of centerfire cartriges I reload.

So.......my only conclusion was that at least one of the occassions was pilot error and I hope....the other was pilot error. I am now more careful when seating the primers. Both primers that did not detonate were CCI 400 which I have never used prior to the ACP priming system. I switched back to the CCI BR4 since I have NEVER had a misfire with these.

I shot another 20 of the 25ACP primer and all CCI 400's detonated properly.

Attached is some info you may find helpful.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.html

TCAS

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2005, 01:44:41 PM »

I have done a lot of reloading and also have not had any rifle cartridges cause the misfire. I have however; had 38spl. misfire in my competition revolver which has a rather light hammer fall. If the primer is not seated firmly the light hit will only set it deeper and a second hit will set it off. It took me about a year of occasional misfires to finally figure this one out. If the firing pin hit is not a real heavy one the non-seated primers can cause this misfire just like in my revolver. If I seat the primers FIRMLY in my revolver cartridges they have not misfired since.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:38:54 PM »

I have shot hundreds of shots through my Encore with the 25 ACP breech plug, and never has one fail to fire.

Stan M. · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:40:23 PM »

Points are all well taken. I use a Lee Auto Prime and I have a "good feel" with the primer pockets on the ACP cases. I also run my finger across the end of the case to feel the for the primer extruding. I also clean the primer pockets.
The only misfire problems I ever had reloading were headspace related and it was using the break action TCR 87 and Contender not the primer itself or the seating of the primers. I will listen and double check the seating of my primers. I'm curious as to what could be Spence's problem as well.
I don't won't to snap on deer again :wink:
Thanks,
Stan