Author Topic: Reasonable Black Powder Rifle Accuracy Expectations (Read 942 times)

miked · « **on:** November 08, 2005, 12:26:45 PM »

I am shooting a T/C Hawken 50 cal. caplock with factory iron sights. I am shooting the various T/C conicals, Maxi-Hunter and Maxi-Ball, round balls, and have tried Power Belts. Being rather new to this, the weaning process from scoped high power weapons has been challenging and interesting.
When you develope a load for hunting, what type of accuracy to you reasonably strive for? Coming from a smokeless powder background where scoped weapons are the norm, accuracy has typically been measured by group size. Am I seeking a certain "group size" with this new found black power weapon. My initial impression is that I confront my iron sight hunting limitations, at this point, at about 100 yards. Attempting to resolve iron sight alignment at this distance, and beyond, is pretty challenging for me and trifocal corrected vision. Any viewpoints regarding personal hunting accuracy standards and or how you improved your black powder shooting accuracy with iron sights at hunting distances is appreciated.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2005, 12:58:39 PM »

I understand about the trifocals....I wear them to........My T/C Renigade with a Green Mountain 1 in 66 twist barrel will shoot almost the same hole at 50 yards and with the iron sights.......now, 100 yards is a whole different matter as a small dot on a target is hard for me to see........I can, however, bounce a folgers coffee can constitently at 100 yards, standing, off hand and that is good enough for me to take a shot at a deer at that range......my load is 70 grains of pyrodex, 018 ox yoke patch, and 170 grain round ball........

If you haven't shot alot with iron sights, focus on the front sight.....that should help.......

Gregory · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2005, 01:31:13 PM »

I wear progressive lenses too. My deer load from my TC Renegade is 75 gr FFG and a PRB. 3 1/2" group at 80 yds which is my max "comfort" range.
Mine has a factory 1-48" twist barrel.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2005, 01:50:05 PM »

If you are limited to iron sights you might try a peep sight which will enhance the sight picture for older eyes that cannot focus on different depth of vision. I have a rather bad right eye and the peep sight helps a lot. I am fortunate that in Arizona a scope is legal for muzzleloader hunts. There are also small aperature devices that can be stuck on your lense but they only seem to be practical for target as when hunting it is not very convenient to try to find that small hole to sight through.

Charles/NM · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:37:58 PM »

With stock sights I get around 1" at 50 yards shooting round balls with an Ox-Yoke felt wad under a pillow ticking patch and Pyrodex. With a vernier tang peep sight I can shrink that down around 3/4". This is shooting from crossed sticks.
I get the same results with various T/C bullets, MaxiBalls, MaxiHunter, etc.

fffffg · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2005, 08:03:38 PM »

no one really can focus on more than any one part of the sight picture.. if using a good rest and a good gun you should be able to shoot a one inch group at 100 yards with standard open sights in good light.. muzzeloaders dont do this very often, most never will, but i was trying to show you that sights are not the problem, once youve learned how to use them and have gained confidence in them......however side light seems to be a huge problem with open sights as one side is glareing and the other is shaded this throwing off what the center of the rear knotch actually is, and shrinking of the front blade.... the best would be shooting on a covered bench.... you will need to learn how to center a fuzzy object in fuzzy sights if needed.. it just takes lots of practice and proper sights, proper target.. . ive found that a square flourescent orange patch of about 4-6 inches is best for optimum accuracy at 100yards... you shoot at the bottom, and put a large piece of white/ light colored paper behind it.. becouse the target is square you know the correct height to hold, and left and right is apparent.. wind can be a huge problem at 100 yards with a round ball and usually is much more trouble than the sights... as to muzzel loader accuracy ive seen 5 shots with a 56 cal all totally in side a one inch circle shot by a local gunsmith at 100 yards.. three to four inch two to three shot group at 100 yards with cross sticks is good accuracy in most situations and repeatable in the field if you practice, and plenty good for big game hunting accuracy.. but with black powder ev, and of course everything can go wrong at the worst time.. left ,right impacts can be new barrel not broken in, wind, flinching, and many more things,..., up and down can be fouling/wippng problems, different weight balls, changing lighting on blade, different pressures on the shoulder.. different seating pjressures on the powder.. use a scale to put under butt of gun untill you get the hang of ball seating pressure, about 40 pounds is a good place to start.. get a good hold on the gun as it takes alot longer for the bullet to exit the barrel than modern guns... a proper fitting ball and patch with good lube for conditions is very important.. with help from shooters here you will be able to solve many more problems that come up... back to the sights, with glasses ive found a longstock is the best for opensights,, the rear sight can be more forward on the barrel, and you still have a long sighting radius. my front sight is about where my support hand holds the gun.. see the sights setup at http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles02.htm. all my opinion only. others may see it differently....good luck dave

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:09:15 AM »

My t/c flinter wears a peep sight on the tang and does improve my group about 50 percent.
I load in my t/c flinter 100 grains of 3f (hunting load) a wad and .015 pillow patch material and lubed with 60/40 beeswax and lard @ a hornady round ball.
I find in the field my max: distance is no more then 75 yard,at the range with the same charge th gun will clover leaf groups at the 50 yard target and softball groups at the 100 yard target.
I also did redrill the peep with a 1/64 drill bit ,seem in early hours a little larger hole is need.
I have a early production t/c rifle that was made in the middle 70's funny it sem to shoot better and better if more powder is going down the barrel.
I would say 100 grains of 3f is more then enough to punch two hole in a deer to leave a good blood trail out to 75 yards.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:26:44 PM »

I shoot a Lyman Deerstalker. With the stock iron sights (which I shall say were strickly meant for high visibility and not super precise aiming over longer distances) I will punch about 1 1/2" on the bench and around 2-2 1/2" standing at 50 yards. Moving out to 100 yards, shooting with some kind of support but not bench rested, I can get about 4". The large sights are the biggest problem with accurate aming in my case (well, that and my corrected vision still aint very good that far away.) At 100 yards that front sight looks like a golf ball and the target a flea :eek: . I decided to limit myself to about 75 yards, which in my neck of the woods is perfect since we dont usually see deer much farther than that.

Brian