Author Topic: 38-55 Target (Read 574 times)

Swamp Yankee · « **on:** November 08, 2005, 01:19:49 PM »

After reading a number of your post I had decided to get the 38-55 Target, I ordered it this weekend. Well, to learn more about the gun [loads, type of bullets, etc.] I did a search on the 38-55 and learned more than I had expected to.............the problem with the under sized chamber being the primary one. My question is knowing that there is a problem has H&R corrected this in their new production rifles or am I going to face the same problem? I don't like the idea that a brand new gun has to go to the gun shop to be fixed [to have the chamber reemed] before it's ever shot. I'm not mad I am just disappointed. It's not everyday you buy a new gun and you want it to work properly right out of the box. I'm at the point where I may just cancel the order.
Like I said I'm just dissapointed, Jim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:11:36 PM »

Sorry for your frustration Jim, but why not call the factory tomorrow after 9AM and ask to speak to Gordon, John or Jennifer in Customer service and explain your fears and what you have learned about the undersized chamber. They are the ones to give you the straight info... Best of luck for one from SE MA to another....<><.... :grin:

JPH45 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:57:21 PM »

If you did the search, you've read all Ihave to say on the subject. I would be more than surprised if Marlin/NEF has done anything about this, as they've known about the problem for several years and folks are still complaining about it. Problem is that there are no SAMMI specs for the 38-55, so each manufactuer is free to do as they choose. If it makes you feel any better, Winchester has the same problem and is in the same denial that Marlin is. A classic case of CYA engineering, if the ammo don't fit, the gun can't be fired and there will be no lawsuits :roll:

Actually, I've found the "problem" to be as much as asset as a problem, as have several other shooters here. I ran an experiment and haev a group of cases that was fired 40 times before a neck split appeared. That case could be easily trimmed, annealed and fired more. The tight chamber has allowed me to side step full length sizing almost completely, extending my brass life emmensly. The question is of course what size bore will you have? That is as important as the chamber size. If my bore as was large as .381 as has been reported in a Marlin 38-55 lever, I'd have to have my chamber reamed.

I went into the 38-55 knowing these problems and willing to search out a solution. I got lucky and the solution presented itself by following the methods others had used on both the NEF and the Marlin.

You can trust me on this, the 38-55 is well worth the effort of getting it set up right. It is the sing'e best mild to wild cartridge I have ever fired. I'll not be without one. It is one of those rare examples of something being more than it appears to be.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2005, 03:11:22 PM »

From what I've read, the problem is that there is no "problem" as such. The chamber/bore dimensions are what SAAMI calls out. Our problem lies in that in the original chambering, an undersized soft lead slug was expected to bump up to bore size. Since SAAMI has not revised the standard to either a 375 groove or a slightly blown out neck, hard cast lead bullets that don't bump up are left undersize and won't shoot accurately. I think I saw somewhere that jacketed bullets do shoot ok.

Ian

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2005, 03:21:17 PM »

Heh heh, I fixed that problem with mine before I even shot it!!! :roll: Sorry, I couldn't resist!! :oops:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/405WinClose.jpg">

MSHunter05 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2005, 03:14:57 AM »

I have a NEF 38-55 target and have had no problems with it. I talked to John and Jenn at NEF both said not to reload use the W-W factory ammo. I took that as a disclaimer and cover our butt statement. I used 38-55 W-W brass with 30 grains of H4198 behind a barnes .377 255 grain bullet. The results are awesome. 1/2 inch groups or smaller at 100yds. I have measured every thing I can and find small differences from case to case both new and fired, especially in case length. I trimmed all cases to the same length using a lee trim gauge and cutter to fix this. The other measurements differ by such small amounts that I don't feel they make a difference in modern rifles. Just for reference I measured some 270's and 7mm-08's and the differences are comparable between cases. Just keep the loads at safe pressures and everything should be fine. Enjoy shooting this tack driver from NEF

Check it twice, shoot once and collect the prize! :lol:

JPH45 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:32:45 PM »

Quote from: Haywire Haywood

From what I've read, the problem is that there is no "problem" as such. The chambers/bore dimensions are what SAAMI calls out. Our problem lies in that in the original chambering, an undersized soft lead slug was expected to bump up to bore size. Since SAAMI has not revised the standard to either a 375 groove or a slightly blown out neck, hard cast lead bullets that don't bump up are left undersize and won't shoot accurately. I think I saw somewhere that jacketed bullets do shoot ok.

Ian

Haywire you're dead on here, I've had a helluva learning lesson about alloys running 8 to 10 BHN rather than harder stuff, I've found they shoot far better and much faster than is normally thought. Seems the last 25 years of "How hard's ya bullet" has all but wiped out any practical knowledge of softer alloys in fired with smokeless.

Had lots of trouble with WW and harder in my 357 Max, went to shooting 8 and 10 BHN alloys and the groups shrank by over half. I'm shooting a lead tin alloy that is 8 BHN at 1700 fps using 21.5 grains of 4198 and the RCBS 35-200, no lead what ever. The same alloy using Lymans 379449 and 25.5 grians of 4198 makes 1700 in my 38-55, no leading whatever. Beatcha can't guess what my 357 and 38-55 hunting loads are going to be...... :wink:

Swamp Yankee · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:27:21 PM »

Thanks for your help. I canceled my order for now until I can contact H&R and talk to my gunsmith as well. The distributor is waiting for a shipment [due in ten days or so] this should give me time enough to decide. I tend to procrastinate alot and this was uncommon for me to just go out and order a rifle with out really researching it. I had a chance to handle a BC and it fit well and after reading a number of posts I found it was highly regarded. Adding the fact that it is made right here in MA. I kinda jumped without looking. At least now I'll have more time to do some proper research. Thanks once again, Jim

justme · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2005, 05:24:29 PM »

I had the same "problem". The bore is .379 and I used a lyman 265g GC mould and sized the bullets to .379 (the sizer I had). I used 20g of 4198 and the gun shot better than I could have ever expected. It's one of my favorites. I use the Williams FP TK rear sight and it will shoot under an inch at 100yds. when I can see good. I have some wonderful jacketed Boer bullets that are .379 also and they shoot great too, but are sort of expensive so they are saved for hunting. My "problem" gun turned out to be one of my favorites that i would never part with...

TopperT · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2005, 12:11:10 PM »

I am currently shooting this rifle with Black Powder and falling deeper and deeper in love with it every time I get to the range. I am working at this time with 40 and 42 grns of FFF Swiss with the Lyman 330 Grn head sized to .379 lubed with SPG over a .30 veg. wad that (for what ever reason I began to do this )is soaked in melted Bore Butter. I have posted some stuff in the past and may have been a bit off base with a coment or too, BUT right now the 38-55 H&R shoots better than my high end Winchester Highwall that is going up for sale. The bottom line is this....I have learned that although our H&R's leave a bit to be desired in cosmetics....they can and will shoot like hell with the right lead...the task is finding the right combination...I'm still working BUT believe me try Black Powder. The other BIG plus is the ease that the H&R cleans up......believe me its simple. I'm in a learning curve but I WILL compeate in the "Matthew Quigley Buffalo Rifle Shoot" next June and I WILL do it with an H&R from my home state of Massachusetts.....its the least I can do.....besides its all for fun and learning.....