hornady round ball vs. thompson center round ball

[sman]

Has anyone seen any differences in round ball manufacturers.  I've always shot hornady but recently tried t/c round ball, they didn't seem as accurate.  Any help is greatly appreciated.

[roundball]

Has anyone seen any differences in round ball manufacturers.  I've always shot hornady but recently tried t/c round ball, they didn't seem as accurate.  Any help is greatly appreciated.

Hornady is always my first choice, Speer is second...they are equally as good but Speer is more expensive...that's the only reason I say it's my second choice.

TC doesn't make their own balls of course, but I don't know who TC gets them from...given TC's interest in quality products and seeing that they feature Hornady bullets in their sabot laods, I would have guessed they get their balls from Hornady too...but maybe not, dunno

[Rustyinfla]

What you are referring to are both swagged balls. Personally I've always had better results with cast balls. It seems that the sprue acts as a place for the short starter to seat the ball. In my experience the swagged balls seem to deform more than cast balls.

      Rusty <><

[roundball]

What you are referring to are both swagged balls. Personally I've always had better results with cast balls. It seems that the sprue acts as a place for the short starter to seat the ball. In my experience the swagged balls seem to deform more than cast balls.
      Rusty <><

I think it's excellent that you get better results with cast balls than with Hornady or Speer swaged balls...that's generally not the norm, sort of the exception to the rule.

In trying to help this individual, I mentioned the two top industry leader's swaged balls based on the estabished rule that swaged balls have greater uniformity and consistency, with better accuracy as a result...no air pocket/voids to cause offcenter weight conditions in swaged balls like can often occur with cast balls.

If somebody gave them to me, I'd use good quality cast balls for range plinking, but for serious use such as deer hunting, squirrel hunting, etc, I wouldn't go to all that trouble and expense and trust anything other than Hornady / Speer swaged balls.

My two cents... :wink:

[PeashooterJoe]

Check diameter of the ball from both and then weigh them. I cast my own and weigh and check diameter of all. The rejects are recast and then checked again to my specs. I have a cloth and ball combination that is constant for range and hunting. I have checked bought balls and some were out of shape, due to shipping maybe. Where I live it is a little costly to buy, I shoot a lot. I've been casting about 27 years and buy my lead in pigs with certified paperwork to lead contents. :-)

[Jason]

I've had the best luck with accuracy from the Hornady swaged round balls. As has been said, I'll shoot cast ones if I'm just plinking or practicing in general. If accuracy really counts or I'm practicing for a specific time when it will really count, I only shoot the Hornady.

[harryo]

I think it's excellent that you get better results with cast balls than with Hornady or Speer swaged balls...that's generally not the norm, sort of the exception to the rule.

In trying to help this individual, I mentioned the two top industry leader's swaged balls based on the estabished rule that swaged balls have greater uniformity and consistency, with better accuracy as a result...no air pocket/voids to cause offcenter weight conditions in swaged balls like can often occur with cast balls.

I have been running my own ball for years and I use them for all my shooting, target and hunting.  Properly cast roundballs, from someone experienced in casting them, are very unlikely to have any of the problems you mentioned.  If you are very worried about it, you can weigh them, as PeashooterJoe said.  When you learn how to properly run ball, you will find virtually no balls with voids and uniformity will be excellent.  

As to the question of which swaged ball would be best, I imagine it again comes down to a question of uniformity.  I have used roundballs from both Speer and Hornady and found them both to be excellent.

[slayer]

What really baffles me is, how does a Cast RB even shoot straight considering it has that little bump on it? I also use Hornady, but was just curious about this question. Jack.

[lostid]

I would give topic to this queary of swaged vrs. cast, if possible. But, I have never seen nor shot a t/c round ball.
 Is it that Thompsen Center has besieged the mid-west as to it's marketing availability, or that the T/C round ball is new? I know not.

 The consistant weight of rb wether factury swaged or cast does imho confer to consistant grouping of shot pattern. The density of the lead cast per batch', factory or hand made, can and will effect nominal weight of any run of ball, beit hand/swaged. Yet any variant deviation from that cast or run// of 1 grn or more will cause to the shooter an end result of variant at his target beyond his control.

 Although I have and can cast my own ball, I have yet to achieve consistant capabilities due to time constrants and practice. In my own experiance I have found that over the counter speer ball in .45, .50, and .54 cal. have been over years more consistant and true to an average weight than horandy ball from the same sources per box.
 Beit know also, that I will not, for accuracies sake, shoot a series of ball at any target with-out knowing there consistancy.
 Does this mean I cannot trust my ability to shoot any projectile from my favored gun, and achieve my goal? No.


I guess I don't know how to answer this thread, besides,."Yup", and "I believe that", and "keep reading friend". in that order.

[harryo]

What really baffles me is, how does a Cast RB even shoot straight considering it has that little bump on it? I also use Hornady, but was just curious about this question. Jack.

I used to wonder the same thing, Jack, but stopped wondering about it because in practice, the sprue of a cast ball really doesn't matter.  Actually, the Lee molds that I use don't leave a bump but leave more of a flat spot.  Old wisdom used to tell us to always center the sprue, either in the up, or down position and honestly that doen't seem to matter either.  I still center the sprue in the up position but I have purposely loaded with the sprue to one side, to see the effects, and it makes no discernable difference.

I believe the physics involved with this tells us that small differences in symmetry of a spinning round ball don't change the stabilty of it because the ball will still stabilize by spinning on it's center of mass and the center of mass does not have to be the physical center of the ball.  I don't know if this makes sense but I can assure you that in practice, the sprue doesn't matter.  

For this same reason, I don't believe minute voids, or air pockets in a cast ball make any discernable difference either, unless they are great enough to change the weight by a significant amount because the weight difference is what has the greatest impact.  I don't know what that difference is and lostid has stated 1 gram, or more, as significant and that could be.  I have heard the 1 grn figure mentioned before and if I weigh my cast roundballs , which I don't usually do, that is the yardstick I use.

[flintlock]

sman...The companies that sell swaged balls would like for us all to believe that theirs is the superior product....Swaged balls are not perfect...they are out of round and their caliber size and weights vary...Anyone with good experience can produce a very acceptable cast round ball....The May-July 2004 issues of Muzzle Blasts cover this issue of cast vs swaged round balls...

They found that if a lead ball is out of round....it was "swaged" to the bore during the loading process....they also  found that weight variances buy as much as one or two tenths of a grain didn't affect accuracy....In fact, they drilled holes into balls, decreasing the ball weight by as much as 9%...and this didn't affect point of impact at 50 yards...
 
They did find differences in the caliber of Hornady, Speer etc. commercial balls....In other words...a .490 Hornady box of balls averaged .487-.493...
The weights ranged from 176.1 to 178.8...Speers usually averaged a little lighter (and smaller in caliber)...So if you find one brand that your gun likes I would stick with it.....
 
I know that my .54 is more accurate with the cast balls that I make myself...I believe that cast balls are softer than swaged and conform to the bore easier and obturate better at ignition....

[Lefty38-55]

What really baffles me is, how does a Cast RB even shoot straight considering it has that little bump on it?

I think this month's issue of Muzzle Blasts or Muzzleloader has the answer, as there's an article in there about shooting "1/2 roundballs".  That's right, legend has it that Daniel Boone used to shoot these when he was captured by Indians and was forced to hunt meat for them.  They'd only give him 1 ball at a time, so by cutting them in 2, he saved up enough to make good his escape, when the time was appropriate.  He'd cut the ball in half and shoot the game at close range ... quite the story!

Anyway, to the point of this thread.  The article had tests and found 1/2 balls that were seated with the round side to the powder would hit with the full frontal (flat) diamater out to 35 yards or so, with reduced powder charges of course.

I think what this shows is that provided the sprue is centered somewhat in the bore, that will roughly align with the axis of rotation of the projectile. Thoughts?

Tight groups!

[sharps4590]

I can't tell you any difference between Speer, Hornady or T/C's swaged balls.  I've used Speer and Hornady in the past and both were adequate but neither was exemplary.  I didn't know T/C marketed balls but it certainly comes as no surprise.  For more than 25 years I've shot cast balls and have to say that both I and my rifles prefer them over swaged.  I use them for everything.  I can consistently cast  520 grain, 45 cal. bullets to within 2 grains, which is evidently closer than either Speer or Hornady swage their balls, so surely I can cast round balls weighing 1/4 that to at least as close a tolerance.  My electronic scales tell me I do.

Sprue up/sprue down has never been conclusively shown to make a difference.  Also, the rifling in muzzleloaders is considerably slower than cartridge guns and I would think that would make a difference.

Vic

[harryo]

I think what this shows is that provided the sprue is centered somewhat in the bore, that will roughly align with the axis of rotation of the projectile. Thoughts?

Actually, I don't think it makes much difference if it is centered or not.  As I said before, when I load, I always center the sprue in the up position out of habit.  However, I have purposely left it uncentered, even to the point of having it completely to the side, and couldn't tell any difference.

[slayer]

I use to get Muzzleloader magazine years ago, I am going to have to give it a go again. I love my Black Powder Hunting mags!! Jack.