I'm at my wits end.......

[Supplyguy]

Maybe yall can give me some insight on this...

  I sold a .308 Ultra to one of my buddies 4 years ago. When I had the rifle, it shot 1 - 1 1/2" groups with my handloads. Just last year, he can barely get it to stay on paper at 100yds. He has tried 4 different factory loads in it (all 150gr.) and still no groups. He brought it to me to see what I could do. He even bought a new Burris scope and mounted it thinking it might be the old scope had gone bad.

  I played with it this weekend and could do little better. I removed the scope base, cleaned the base and top of the barrel, remounted the base using loc-tite, cleaned all the copper fouling out of the bore and free-floated the forearm with a rubber o-ring like the sticky said. I shot some factory stuff thru it and even tried some handloads but the best it would do at 100yds was 3 7/8''.

  What I did helped, but not enough. I think the only other option is to send the barrel back to NEF. Have any of yall heard of this? The gun has only had 250 - 300 rounds shot thru it.

[5Redman8]

I would look hard at the crown.....if anything looks suspect, get it recrowned.

Kyle

[Mac11700]

It could be a number of things causing your accuracy to go out the window.

Since you didn't say which factory loads you tried...I can't help there..but 1 I would definatly try woulf be the new Federal Fusion...and I would try the 165 grain loads too...http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?searchItem=Fusion&CFID=1345060&CFTOKEN=57759144
I can tell you that the factory Hornady lite magnums didn't give me good results..nor any of Remingtons offerings...but..my neighbor who bought the gun from me has had excellent results with the Winchester Power points 150 grains..

Most of the earlier 308's produced have very long throats...and are quite picky on ammo preference..but the fusions (all weights..150-165-180 grains) seem to do good in most guns...the Handi's as well...

I don't know your shooting techniges..but I can tell you this... you cannot bench this rifle like a bolt gun..nor can you have the same trigger break...you need to shoot it off the hinge pin area...and youmust have a complete follow thru with the trigger...don't just let it break and release it..you will get inconsistant accuracy ..if you do...

If you do deceide to reload for it..check the cartridge over-all length and see how far out you need to seat the bullets...if you can't touch the lands with it in the case...then you'll need to seat it in about .308" in the case...and then try a slew of different powders for your bullet choice...if whitetails are up..and you have a long throat..try some of the CT 168 grain Silver BT's...or the regular165 Ballistic Tips.....these might work good for you...and keep the velocities in the normal range...maxing the load out might not give you the best results...so look for the load that gives the highest loading density for it with the powders your using...

Good Luck with it...

Mac

[Supplyguy]

Mac/Redman,
  Thanks for the info. Mac, I tried WW power points, Rem core-locs, Hornady (not Lite-Mag) and some handloads using 42gr. of H4895 under Hornady's 150gr. interlock bullet.
  I had thought about going to a heavier bullet, but my question is still why did it shoot good but now it won't?
  I haven't went back thru my data to see how far I seated the bullets when I loaded for it. I may try and do that to see if that helps.
  But even with factory fodder, 1st shot may be 6" high left, and the 2nd shot may be 8" low right. Shouldn't it form at least some kind of group?

[quickdtoo]

Make sure the latch and latch shelf are completely clean and dry, no oil or grease should be applied to those areas. If everything checks out, give H&R a call and make arrangements to have it sent in and repaired. If it shot good before and the muzzle hasn't been damaged since, it's not the crown.

(978) 630-8220

hr1871@hr1871.com

[aulrich]

Also check how tight it locks up you shouold be able to close on a feeler gauge no thicker than .003" along the center of the chamber. even .003" is a bit border line any thicker than that and that may be your problem.

[Fred M]

Aulrich.
How can you recommend a three thou gap. No gap is the way to go.

When my 257 Roberts developed a  three thou gap it quit shooting accurately.

Supplyguy

I think the problem is with a loose latch lock up with up and down play, that is the only way a Handi would shoot that bad.

Try two pieces of masking tape on the barrel radius just in front of the standing breech that would raise the back of the barrel and tighten up the latch if that works you can then build up the action well curve with Devcon steel putty for a tight lock up.

At the same time tighten the gap by putting some Devcon Steel Putty in the hinge pin seat. See my write up how to do it.

[dodd3]

wot about copper build up in the bore but i lean to freds thinking.
bernie  
 

[cwlongshot]

Just one other thing no one has mentioned.
 I assume this is being shot off a bench? Are you using sand bags? Is there anything hard, (besides the bench) under the bags? Where is the weight bearing? SOMETIMES, ranges use homebuild rifle rests. You know 2X6's with carpet over them. If you rest your forend on these and try to shoot for group....good luck!! This will cause the gun to recoil off this hardness resulting in less than desirable groups!!! Also, as much as I like the bipods you bolt to the forend, these too can sometimes cause erratic grouping, for the same reasons.

Get a couple good sand bags! ( Easily made from the legs of worn out dungerees, filled with play sand!!)  If there MUST be weight bearing on one point, make it be under the "hinge". But best results will come from the gun COMPLETELY supporting itself on the bench with the bags making as much firm contact as possible.

My other two suggestions have been covered. Check the crown closely with a magnafing glass and CLEAN the bore!!! Remove the barrel from the frame and Clean it from the breech!!

 Good luck and let us know what you find!!!

 CW

[cheatermk3]

Mac/Redman,
  ... But even with factory fodder, 1st shot may be 6" high left, and the 2nd shot may be 8" low right. Shouldn't it form at least some kind of group?

I agree--this is not a group it's a rifle that has serious accuracy problems.  I think Fred's on the right trail--check your barrel/breech gap.

Also you ought to try wiggling the barrel on the frame, locked up with the forend off of the gun.  The fit of the forend may be masking a sloppy lockup.  If there is any up-and-down or side-to-side play, you'll need to return the rifle to the factory for repair.

Of course, if you're the adventurous type you could try Fred's system for accurizing the handi.  But I think what you've got is a rifle that has loosened up over time/shooting.  The less-than-optimal fit of the barrel in the frame is necessary to allow the frame to accept mass-produced barrels.

Fred's technique of bedding the barrel to the frame eliminates side-play and twisting of the barrel on the hinge; I suspect that your 308's underlug has been peened open a bit and the resulting play is what's causing your shots to go wild.  

If this is in fact what's going on, you might be able to shim the underlug in the area it rides the pin and restore the accuracy.  If the frame is bedded it will only accept the barrel that is bedded into it, others will need to be hand fitted, but once it has been done your friend's rifle will most likely shoot even better than it did before you sold it to him.

Good luck and let us know how it shakes out.

[Supplyguy]

I am obliged to all of yall for your input on this. I talked to my buddy last nite and he is going to send the rifle back to NEF.                        

   Fred, I would try your suggestion but I am a "shade-tree" gunsmith on my best day. I'll leave that to the professionals. My buddy really loves this rifle and I don't want to do any irreversible harm to it.

   Again, thanks for all your help, fellas. This forum is the best thing since sliced bread.

Roger

[aulrich]

even .003" is a bit border line

My 204 was between .002 and .003 from the factrory and it is sub MOA.  Though since I measured it I have stoned the latch shelf, i'll check it again. After my experience with the 243 I had planned on shimming it till it clamp down on .0015".  But it shooting well so I am not messing with it.

[Supplyguy]

I finally got some time to reload for this "problem" gun. I went thru some of my data and found out I had never shot factory ammo out of this gun when I owned it. So I loaded up some 150gr Rem Core-locs.

  I seated the bullets 15 thou." off of the rifling and there was A LOT of bullet hanging out there. I think the overall length was 2.845". Talk about a deep throat!

   I fired 3, 3-shot groups with it and the best measured 1.126" center-to-center. My buddy was pleased that it would shoot but since he doesn't reload, he's still going to send it back for repair or replacement.

   I guess it pays off never to give up and try everything! Thanks for all your help, fellas.

[hylander]

I seated the bullets 15 thou." off of the rifling and there was A LOT of bullet hanging out there. I think the overall length was 2.845". Talk about a deep throat!

I shoot a Rem. 700 VLS .308 and seat a 165gr. at 2.800
Because thats all the Magazine will allow, this still leaves me .040 of the lands and shoots less than .5" @ 100yd.
1" @ 300yd. :-D
Also My .223 Savage was over .030 of the Lands and shot .5" @ 100yd.
Never can tell :?