Author Topic: My next handi, it's gotta be a wildcat. Suggestions wanted (Read 1795 times)

gstanfield · « **on:** November 17, 2005, 02:10:57 PM »

Ok, I had so much fun with my 45-70 to 45-120 conversion (all ten minutes of it) that I have the bug for more conversions for my handis. I am going to take my 22 hornet out to 22K Hornet and might just take my 223 out to a 222magnum AI version. I am wanting a nice medium bore for small to medium game as I have the larger scale pretty much covered between my bolt guns and other handis (500 and 45-120) so I'm thinking of a couple of ideas.

The first would be a bull barrel 243 rechambered to a 6mm/284 with maybe a steep shoulder and the other would be a long barrel 25-06 converted to a 25/284 of the same type. This sould be easy as the extractor would be the same for any 308/30-06 based round and the 284 based rounds. I'm thinking the 6mm/284 in a bull barrel would be the most fun of the lot, what do others think? I've also thought about a 30-30 rechambered to a 30/45-120 or something along those lines. Given the design of this gun, added with the ease of rechambering, what would you go for if you wanted a wildcat that would be cheap to produce?

Thanks for all suggestions and ideas,
George

jason280 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2005, 04:06:10 PM »

I'm not sure you could rechamber the .25-06 to a .25-.284 Wildcat, as the '06 chamber would be too long. I could be wrong, but I don't think the reamer would ever clean up the chamber.

Crosshair · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2005, 08:49:25 AM »

You could alway's ream a .243 to a 6mm-06. With the long 24" barrel and slow powders you could push the heavy 6mm bullets quite fast without excessive pressure. You could also go with a 25-06 AI and get more powder capacity to use some of the really slow H870 type powders. Though the 25-06 does well with H870 to begin with.

tom barthel · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2005, 10:24:21 AM »

Hi

I just rechambered my .30-30 to .30-30 Ackley Improved. I'm very happy with it. 308 is also planning this conversion. Another cartridge to consider is .30-40 krag. My first .30-30 was rechambered to this round. It's not a wildcat. You may want to try the .30-40 AI. I just love carrying something unique.

There is also the 7.62x39. The bore is right for 7.62x54 or .303 British. There are all kinds of wildcats based on these cartridges. The only difficulty may be cutting a new rim recess. You would probably need access to a lathe. You would need a rimmed ejector/ejector.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

aulrich · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2005, 10:29:47 AM »

7.62x39 to 303 Epps, I think that is the name basically 303 British Ackely-ified.

tallyho · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2005, 11:06:46 AM »

Aren't most of the Epps cartridges rimmed?

aulrich · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2005, 11:49:08 AM »

I only have ever heard of the 303 Epps, it would not supprise me if his other wildcats were 303 based.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2005, 12:00:12 PM »

All you could ever wanta know about the 303 Epps!

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/Improved_Cases.htm

There's also 6mm-303Epps, .243 Epps Imp, 25-303 Epps, 6.5-303 Epps, 26 Epps,

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2005, 01:26:37 PM »

Theres always the 8mm mauser , That would be something diffrent ! :roll:

gstanfield · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »

OK, a few thoughts here tonight. I had a long rely typed up and my computer ate it somehow so I'll just cover the basicxs as I'm in a hurry to go pick up my sweetheart for dinner.

As to the error of my thoughts on the 25/284, you are right and I realised it just after I logged off last night.

As to lathe acess, I am the head machinest at a large machine shop here in Casper and have acess to lathes ranging form a 18" chuck up to a 72" chuck!!! It's nice to have a key to the shop :grin: and a boss who doesn't mind me using it on my own time.

What I'm really doing here is trying to come up with another toy. I have two great hunting rifles and the other 28 rifles I have are just for fun and so I thought I'd get a little farther from ordinary with my next one. I had considerd and am still thinking about the Epps line as I am a die hard fan of the 303British, have a really sweet shooting SMLE and have thought about making it a 303Epps.

I've also thought about taking my 22 hornet out to a 22/30-30AI or such just to have a blistering fast 22 claiber. I've also considerd the 6mm/06AI round and have not discredited it yet. It would be easier than the 6mm/284 in some aspects, but I'm still undecided. I've also thought of basing a line of Stanfield cartridges (hey, if I makje them I can name them) based on the 45-120 case. I think my 7mm Stanfield would give velocities approcing the speed of light and my 35 Stanfield would have tremendous konckdown power to make my 338Mag jelous.

So, the ideas rolling in are really good, still trying to think of what to do so keep them coming and I'll be nice and provide pictures on my next conversion as well as results from the chrony and targets with biog ragged holes in them :grin:

God Bless,
George

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2005, 02:05:38 PM »

Take one of the .17 barrels and make one of the 17 wildcats out of it, how about a .17-223, .17 Javalina or even a .17-250? I did one in .17 Remington. Larry

rangerruck · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2005, 04:10:31 PM »

wow! i ws jsut thinking about a 25-284 and wham! somebodly else suggest it here/ weird huh?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2005, 05:33:30 PM »

As far as anyone wanting to turn the Handi into some Lazzeroni type rifle...stop and really think about what your asking of the action for a minute or 2...there are pressure limatations and reciever flexing problems to overcome...not to mention not knowing if the action can take on super magnum strenght load pounding without fracturing and failing...

I've given serious considerations to having a 25-06 rebored to that of a 257 Weatherby magnum...and have discussed this with several qualified gunsmiths and barrel makers...each and everyone of them said that it was possible to do it..but in their opinions it would be foolish to do so...All of them knew the Handi rifle in and out...each have done simalar work in the past on them...All of these learned men felt that it would fail at some unknown point in time...and all did advise that the rifle is capable of taking the 270 Winchester pressures with the 30-06 casehead size..Each said to.figure out which overbore cartridges your want and stay within the limatations of the action....otherwise...by a Encore...Far smarter folks than the likes of us have advised against going to a larger or more powerfull cartridge with the Handi ...do the research as I have...make a ton of phone calls...see what you come up with...and if you get a smith that says " Hey no-problem I can do that....." ask for references and follow up on them...you will be surprised at what you find out..

Mac

De41mag · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2005, 06:46:28 PM »

JPH45 suggested;

Take my 22-250 UVF and make it a 22-250AI.
Just the reamer is all it would take and from what the newest Sierra reloading manual says, you practially elimate case stretching and lengthing. Case trimming is practially eliminated. The manual said you would reach 220 Swift velocities.
I know you mentioned a medium bore but I just thought this might interest you.

Dennis

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:15:03 PM »

A 22-250 to a 22-250AI requires a setback of the barrel that you cannot do on a Handi. Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:30:53 PM »

Here are previous discussions on the AI of a rimless caliber in a Handi...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=65494&highlight=ai

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=32431&highlight=ai

.308 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2005, 05:52:23 AM »

Tim,
Thanks for digging that up. There's some real interesting reading in those threads, for me anyhow. :grin: :agree:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:09:09 AM »

You're very welcome. :wink:

gstanfield · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:39:06 AM »

Mac, I'm not wanting to increase the pressure of the Handi, but rather increase the case capacity so I can get more speed with lower pressures. I'm also mainly wanting to do it so I have something diffrent to play with. I'm thinking a 6mm/06AI from a bull barrel 243 may be the ticket for the time being. I was wanting something more "exotic", but may just settle there for my next one and then in the future get a little more wild with it.

Mianly just thinkin out loud here anyway,
George

mr.frosty · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2005, 01:11:20 PM »

how about building one to handle the 375 jdj?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2005, 02:19:51 PM »

Quote from: gstanfield

Mac, I'm not wanting to increase the pressure of the Handi, but rather increase the case capacity so I can get more speed with lower pressures. I'm also mainly wanting to do it so I have something diffrent to play with. I'm thinking a 6mm/06AI from a bull barrel 243 may be the ticket for the time being. I was wanting something more "exotic", but may just settle there for my next one and then in the future get a little more wild with it.

Mianly just thinkin out loud here anyway,
George

That's completely understandable...heck...we all look at different cartridges and dream of what we could turn them into from time to time....

Mac

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2005, 02:26:27 PM »

Quote from: mr.frosty

how about building one to handle the 375 jdj?

Can't see the need for the expense of a JDJ cartridge when a 375-06 would work just as well for me...and really don't have a need for it either since I already have a 338-06 already in a Handi..if it can't do it...I better get a bolt gun in 375 H&H...or larger...

I have thought about doing something with a necked down 450 Marlin case in a 35 caliber...going to the 375 caliber wouldn't be that difficult...

Mac

mr.frosty · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:00:32 AM »

neck down the 450 to 444

JPH45 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2005, 01:36:27 PM »

Quote from: mr.frosty

neck down the 450 to 444

You get a 44 Marlin, better to rechamber a 44 Mag barrel. The 375 JDJ can be done in a slightly different form, rechamber a 38-55 barrel to 38-56 (made from 45-70 brass) and run it at Level 2 pressures (about what your shoulder will stand) Should easily drive a 250 grain bullet to 2400 fps. Problem will be bullets, but a few 379 diameter jacketed bullets do exist. The upcoming 35 Whelen will do all the 375 JDJ will and some more besides and doesn't require $150.00 dies. The 35 Greevy Express is another that comes to mind, a 45-70 necked to 35, but again the 35 Whelen does that too. Aninteresting one would be the 35/348 Ackley. Question is coulc you resist the temptation to load it a tad hotter? Would be the difference between a nice Handi and a streached Handi.

On the subject of the 25/284, Strikes me that a 25/06 barrel can be be shortened by removing the lug, cutting 3/8" or so off the barrel breech reinstall the lug (heat treatment of weld required but easy in a complete machine shop) Rechamber and go on. I'm not sure that the 22" barrel of the Handi will give you anything you can't get from a 26" barrel 25-06. You could end up with a short and expensive 25-06.

The 6mm-06 AI is the simpliest wildcat on a Handi to do, but if you are looking for 257 Weatherby performance (or something close) you'll probably find you can't get to there from here without destroying your baby.

I'd like to do a 35 or 37 off the Big Rooskie case (762x54R) Both have been done, and CH4D lists dies for a 9.3x54R. The Finns have necked this thing up down and sideways; but little on, for or about them exists here

rockrat · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2005, 05:09:18 PM »

Why not go with a 44/284 using a 44mag barrel. Pretty good round. If I had to do it over again, I think I would take some of the taper out of the case, but a 265 Hornday at 2500fps is pretty stout on both ends. :-)

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:44:43 PM »

Have you guys really looked at what a 338-06 will give you?...I don't know if your really interested in this since it's no-longer a true wildcat

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=74795

But I sure do love mine :wink:

Mac

jon f · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2005, 12:22:28 AM »

Why not build a 25/35 ? its not a wildcat, but you would be the only kid on the block with one.....

mr.frosty · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2005, 10:56:11 AM »

what about just going to a non wildcat or something
not offered in a handi or has been in a handi but not any longer?

hvacman · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2005, 11:56:17 AM »

i'm not sure if you can do it but i would like a 348 Win. Is it possible?

Fred M · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2005, 01:00:31 PM »

Handi to a wild cat, one I personally would consider is the 257DGR. A very easy one does not need fire forming, cheap brass, almost as good as a 25-06. Made from 260Rem or 243 or 7mm08 or even 308. 100 gr bullet at 3300 or close to it. A 223 24" bull barrel would do it nicely.

Has a 30geg shoulder and a .300 long neck. Now there is a 25cal deer rifle with gusto and the 100 or 115gr TSX bullets.

I would rather have that caliber than the 257 Roberts, well I can always get another 25. Don't know where a guy get a reamer to rent. You could try the designer Duane Spooner in Tappen ND.

A low key retired Bench rest cartrige from 223 to 6mmx222Rem Mag. This is a super 300 yard varmint tack driver. No fire forming just expand the neck and go shooting.

The 25-284 would not work well in a Handi, because of the rebated rim.
The extractor or ejector would scrape on the case body?

? There is no advantage in that case in a Handi since it duplicates the 25-06.