Local Gun Smith Moron!!!

[ghosthunter3074]

Ok.. So I was bored on my lunch hour today and decided to stop in at one of the local gunshops just to browse around some.   While in there I asked what the price of their Handi's were.     $200 bucks the guy said.... then followed with this comment  "$200 bucks out the door, but I wont guarantee them or work on them or refund your money if you dont like it, they are crap guns and you get what you pay for!"   Well..  just hearing this made my blood start to boil a little.

   I got to thinking,  What an idiot.   I mean.. I can show you anygun, any model and they all have their fair share of problems from time to time.  Thats just the way it is.   Plus... I mean..  you can take a $3000 gun and in the hands of an amatuer, that gun will perform crappy!!!      I ask the guy why he didnt like them and why so negateive toward the Handi's   He said that with the swapping the barrels you never get an accurate gun,  Cheaply Made = Piece of Crap Gun...      Again this started to piss me off...  I know its peoples opinions but dam..     He then said"  I have a $1,000 that you cant get a handi to shoot a 1"group at 200yds."  And he was dead serious about it.   I so wanna take him up on his offer..  I know for a fact that is not true..    

  On my way out the door...  His last comment was..... " so you gonna buy one or not? "  I told him NOT from you id rather pay twice the retail cost than deal with a moron like you"  He told me that the Price of $200 was only good while I was there in the store..  After I walk out, price goes up to $230....         I just laughed and walked out the door......



   anyway.. Just thought I would share my little encounter today...   I get worked up just thinking about it!!!!

[stimpylu32]

Some people will NEVER get it , Till they have shot a Handi  

Their LOSS our Gain  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

Stimpy

[quickdtoo]

Yup, more rampant ignorance! :roll:

[Nixter]

1 inch at 200 yards.

Hmmm, let's look at that for a minute. Let us assume a 3 round group, no better yet a 5 round group.

Bahh Humbug, these are hunting rifles. One shot at 200 yards for any game aninal or even  varmint type targets is all that is required.

If I am not mistaken, 1 inch at 200 yards is 1/2 minute of angle? (help me here guys) Tough to beat that I think. Ask your gunsmith to give you that Handi and a Remchesage (Remington/Winchester/Savage) in the same caliber. You get to keep the more accurate of the rifles for the price of the Handi. Factory ammo only, one scope shared between the guns of the same caliber. Allow plenty of time and shots for break-in and acclimation to rifles.

If he wants to extend this offer to members of this board that are up to the challenge, so be it.

Nixter

[ghosthunter3074]

I ought to tape a big piece of paper to his door after hours with the a link to this forum printed on it.   HA HA HA...   I like that thought..  I may go offer him that challenge with the other models...    Thats funny!!!  I like how you guys think!!!!!!!!!!

1 inch at 200 yards.

Hmmm, let's look at that for a minute. Let us assume a 3 round group, no better yet a 5 round group.

Bahh Humbug, these are hunting rifles. One shot at 200 yards for any game aninal or even  varmint type targets is all that is required.

If I am not mistaken, 1 inch at 200 yards is 1/2 minute of angle? (help me here guys) Tough to beat that I think. Ask your gunsmith to give you that Handi and a Remchesage (Remington/Winchester/Savage) in the same caliber. You get to keep the more accurate of the rifles for the price of the Handi. Factory ammo only, one scope shared between the guns of the same caliber. Allow plenty of time and shots for break-in and acclimation to rifles.

If he wants to extend this offer to members of this board that are up to the challenge, so be it.

Nixter

[tom barthel]

Ghost hunter3074
 
You did right just walking away.  There are many people in this world who try so hard to fit in they repeat all kinds of wild stories.  He should be more careful.  There are many who would take him up on his bet.  There are some who would really like to have a shootoff at five dollars a shot.
 
I once stood near a clerk who was trying a hard sell on nosler bullets.  He was cinvinced partition bullets were needed for whitetail deer.  I really had to bite my tounge on that one.  I'm not knocking noslers but, just about any commercial ammo loading will do the job.  If I were running the shop, I would be unhappy to lose a sale this way.  Far too often these gun shops are operated like private clubs where the owners are doing you a favor by gracing you with their presence.  
 
You know better.  That should be enough.  If he chooses to wallow in his ignorance, so be it.
 
Take care and God bless.
 
Tom

[mitchell]

send him a pic of mac's ultra comp group or my 204 ruger (both can do and inch at 200)

[ironglow]

With an attitude like he has, I would wager he either won't be working there for long...or if he's the boss the store won't be there long.
     
   When i am in business, I don't sell anything that I think is an inferior product...just common business ethics..

[Mac11700]

Why that dirty low down dirty dog.... :twisted: Where's my Federal Fusion Ammo at...let me at em.... :biggun:

Mac

[Datil]

I think I was told Mitchell was getting P dog heads at 400 yds.
 Heads are about inch or 1 1/2 inches. that's 204 R. I took a doggies' head off at about 200 yds
/ They are just junk, why  do I have 6 rifles and 3 extra barrels.
 Marv.

[Ditchdigger]

Maybe the guy had some bad luck with the Handi's he had sold. It's not to uncommon for the Handi's to come open when fired,brass sticking in the chamber,and some barrels with terrible accuracy.Also in the last year or so there's been several with the transfer bar falling out. Some of the barrels are way oversized,and the list goes on. If the dealer had a few  to come back and he refunded there money you can understand why his attitude is so bad. The last 3 barrels I had fitted only the 25 06 works like it should,with the 22 250 you have to really push the button to get the action open,and the 204 opens by itself.The new 308 Suvivor lost its tranfer bar,and I gave the new 223 Varmit Handi to my son in law and he hasn't shot it yet.It's like everone here knows if you don't like to tinker with a gun its best to buy a bolt action. Just my 2 cents .  Digger

[Mainer]

Maybe the guy hates Handis because, given their lower price, he probably makes less money selling them. :?

[Crosshair]

Just like the people that say Hi-Point guns are crap. I love my 9mm carbine. :grin:

[robin-hood-90]

Easy guys :roll:   Just because a man's opinion differs from yours does'nt make them a moron.  Personally I've owned 2 handis and shot at least 3 others that all had the same problems. Very poor accuracy, sticky chambers, sloppy lock-up. Because of this I'll never own another one. And I LIKE to tweak on my guns and loads to make them more accurate. If I called you guys morons, or ignorant, because you like Handis and I don't I would probably get kicked off GB.  This is supposed to be a discussion forum. A one sided discussion is pointless, don't you think? :money:

[quickdtoo]

There are a lot of happy Handi owners that don't hang out here that love em.....and there are those that have had bad experiences with them just as there are with every make of firearm, and most of those other makes are much more expensive than a Handi. Here's a recent thread at PM on the Handi....

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52187019&page=4&fpart=all&vc=1

"Arrogance and Ignorance go hand in hand."

[robin-hood-90]

The "Handi-rifle cheerleading squad"  :-D  Ouch!   Now that is a discussion,all kinds of opinions, and ALMOST every one of them respected. No-one calling the other guy a moron because he disagrees with something he has to say.   BTW, last time I shot the .308 Handi I hit the "Wrong Target"  :-D  :-D  That how you got that name? Just Kidding

[quickdtoo]

Yup!! When there's 25 targets on the board in front of ya and a skirmish line of buckskinners all shooting at the same time, it's real easy to shoot at the wrong target.......and get a name!!! :oops:

BTW, Mitchell is hunting with that .308 today!!! :wink:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=66116&highlight=308


http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=62954&highlight=308

[Mac11700]

Easy guys Rolling Eyes Just because a man's opinion differs from yours does'nt make them a moron. Personally I've owned 2 handis and shot at least 3 others that all had the same problems. Very poor accuracy, sticky chambers, sloppy lock-up. Because of this I'll never own another one.

 
Somehow..me thinkest this has been here before... :roll:  
 
I've owned a lot of Handi's...and shot even more...out of all of them..I have never had 1 give the trouble you speak of...sure...there are bolt guns that can shoot more accurately than a untuned Handi..but of those I own and have owned and sold to members here..all of them will out shoot most bolt guns on the market...with 1 load or another...
 
If you don't care to own anymore Handi's...that's your right....but most of here know the value and accuracy a well tuned Handi can attain..and most folks who love these little rifles go the extra distance to polish the chamber..and check for burrs on the extractor.. to eliminate the stuck cases.Sloppy lock up..? I haven't had 1 that had this problem...only on the non-factory fitted barrels...
 
Is the clown a moron...yes...his attitude and the way he handled himself shows that,and cretainly when it comes to putting a wager of $1000 for a 200  yard 1" group with a tuned Handi...I've dealt with all types of gunsmiths and gundealers...none of them ever bad mouthed a item they were selling...they did however promote one brand over another..but never outright bad mouthed the 1..and if he did know how well these rifles did in fact shoot..he certainly wouldn't be bad mouthing them..
 
There are a number of things to check on them before purchasing them that can increase your chances of getting a good one over the so-called lemon's ...but since you have no intentions of purchasing anymore of them..I shan't waste my breath explaining them...
 
Mac

[robin-hood-90]

I'm glad someone is going to get some good out of that barrel. I tried about 5 different bullet weights and countless loads and it simply would not shoot to suit me on my receiver.  I thought it might do better on a different receiver but Jeffry8mm never gave me a progress report. :?

[robin-hood-90]

:roll:  Cheer on, Mac, Cheer on ! :roll:

[Ditchdigger]

If that dealer is talking about taking one off the rack,mounting a scope,and giving you factory ammo to shoot,there's a good chance he's not going to lose that bet.Out of the box accurcey is good on some but not outstanding.There's always talk about having to put 200 rds. down range before they shoot good,but most people that hunt don't want to shoot $140 worth of ammo before they go on there yearly deer hunt.Digger

[Mac11700]

Digger:
 
No-one is talking about putting $200 worth of ammo down the tube to find a sub moa group....darn near every bull 233 and bull 243 will do this with several factory types..most 30-06 Ultra Comp's and 270 Ultra Comps too..the 30-30's are hanging right in there with them as well..not to mention the 45-70's and even the little 204 can be a real tack driver provided the person pulling the trigger knows how to shoot them......only a few offerings really cause people headaches..namely the ultra-lights or the 38-55..Funny thing though...after folks come here and read about the same problems they are having...and some of the really easy fixes...their problems go away..or become acceptable enough for them....or they learn how to shoot them where they get the best accuracy....Lapping/polishing the bore prior to shooting is a common practice for anyone that shoots from the bench a-lot...but..if one judged from the responses from some who post here...you would think this is hardly ever done...or..taking the time to actually clean these rifles out completely..going over everything prior to firing it..heck..I've seen guys take these rifles straight from buying them..slap a cheap scope on it.bore sight it at the store..and.. not even bother cleaning it at all.. go to the range here and shoot them...then they complain back at the store that they don't get moa groups...sheeese.. :roll: Granted..the Handi was never designed as a bench rest rifle..it is designed as a cheap hunting rifle..but I'll stack mine up to just about every other hunting rifle on the shelves of most gun dealers straight out of the box...I've gone thru a bunch of different makes and models from just all of the major players..and to me..I look at the time I spend on mine...figure my hourly wage..and then subtract it from the cost of a new Remington,Winchester,Savage,Browning,or Weatherby...and see how much I am saving then...if I have to do the same to them to get them to shoot as accurately as my Handi's...I add the cost to the rifles price..Guess what...I saving a ton with the Handi's..It doesn't matter if your shooting a $1500 Weatherby...a $1000 Browning, A $700 Winchester,or a $300 Savage...you get out of it what effort you put into it...Lord knows I've see enough of them that won't shoot worth a durn straight out of the box accurately...even those that come with a gaurentee
 
RH90...You bet I will...like it or not..Everytime I go to the range to shoot...there is always someone very interested in these rifles..and I usually let them shoot one or 2 of them..when they see just how accurate they can be for a little elbow grease..they usually wind up buying one..and I always tell them of this forum and where they can come to discuss any problems they have,or actual join and get in on the discussions..just like last week...a older gentlemen had bought his grandson a 30-30...after seeing how good my Handi's shot over the summer..he said the boy is shooting great and took his first with it on the youth hunt...or another guy who bought...Oh Well..it really doesn't matter...since you have had nothing but bad luck with yours...that's a real shame too...I know just how you feel...I feel the same way about Savages...even though I know they are really better than the 2 of them I've owned that were pieces of junk..namely I know this because I know 4 different folks who own them and who's rifles I have personally shot that are super accurate...some folks just have better luck eh...  
 
Mac

[robin-hood-90]

:grin: Right on Mac.  Guess I was just unlucky.  But for what it's worth I don't settle for "out of the box" accuracy. And I don't own a Savage centerfire anymore. I had 2 ,I sold one to my nephew ( cheap just so he'd have a deer rifle this year ) and traded one off.   I currently own 5 bolt guns and all have been glass-bedded and had trigger work done by me. I also spent a lot of time working up the most accurate hunting load for each one.  If the first (or second) Handi I bought would have been at least a 1 MOA shooter, I would probably own 5 by now. But that did'nt happen.  And I've got a real-life story for you that reinforced my dislike of these guns.    A good friend of mine bought an SB2 .243 for his 10 year old son.  I helped him sight it in, it shot decent, about 1 1/2" @ 100 yards with factory greenbox ammo.  The 10 yr old was kind of scared to shoot it, but with a little coaxing his Dad and I talked him into it. He got lined up on the 50yard target , pulled the trigger and guess what, the dang thing popped open on firing. Didn't hurt the kid physically but it probably scarred him mentally for a long time. The gun went back to Walmart. And if You want to hear some Handi bashing, talk to his dad. :evil:

[Mac11700]

Hmmm...did you check the gun out...did you shoot it?..I can think of a couple reasons this happened...buttt...it doesn't really matter does it...Listen...I know there are "better made rifles out there...there is no denying this fact...and I'm calling everyone who will listen at NEF/Marlin to try and get things changed for the better...but there is only so-much 1 person can do.Educating the current group of Handi owners is something everyone here who owns,shoots,and enjoys these rifles do...and as far as the problem of your 10 year old neighbor 243...it wouldn't of been to hard to correct... and as scaring him for a long time...I doubt it..provided at the time of the occurance,there wasn't 2 handi bashers making more out of it than should have been...

Mac

[Ditchdigger]

Mac you hit the nail right on the head when you said that not everyone cleaned there Handi properly and they have problems. But that were the problem is with the Handi,they don't clean the action with brake cleaner,they may run a patch down the bore but probably not,they just stick a scope on it and shoot it.You have cleaned enough guns to know that Handi's have a bunch of brown crud in the barrels and if you look down the barrels it looks like they don't have much throat or rifleing in them.All the other guns I have had powder residue where they had been proof tested and shot. My Handi's did'nt. As far as the Ammo goes,we're the only one's that Flitz's our barrels,not the everyday hunter.We're the one's that are puting O rings on,supercleaning them,reloading until we're blue in face,and puting new crowns on them. Thats why no one can believe how our's shoot so well.      Digger

[quickdtoo]

We're not the only ones using flitz for barrel break in....

http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Break

[Duce]

Folks: A question I'd like answred is: If this dealer thinks Handi's are so poor why does he stock them at all.  If I had to stake my rep on a product, I'd sure try to make sure it measured up. Also I'd make sure that a customer knew what he was buying. Beware The Buyer:  :?  Duce:

[hellacatcher]

I don't know what anybody else thinks :?  but we are sure patting each other on the back for all the deer  :lol: we have taken with Handies.

[Mac11700]

I don't know what anybody else thinks :?  but we are sure patting each other on the back for all the deer  :lol: we have taken with Handies.

I thought that is what friends do... :wink:

Mac

[hellacatcher]

I guise I didn't say that right  I was trying to point out how good the handies are