Author Topic: UNION BASHING  (Read 3526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
UNION BASHING
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2005, 12:36:08 PM »
Quote from: nomosendero
Lawdog
True enough, the liberals do talk a good talk, but they DO NOT walk the walk! They do support the down trodden, if they are on Gov. aid or criminals, however while they burden the "working man" they have sworn to protect with all the taxes that they can heap on.
No doubt, some big business is greedy, but some are big because they
are good and efficient at what they do. Besides, no one has ever forced
me to work for one of these dreaded big companies, but the Gov. does
force me to work harder & longer hours to pay the LIBERAL taxes to
support the non-working class that Lberals have set up.


Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong.  It's the Conservatives that want to give huge tax cuts to the rich and big business.  Seeing that it takes a certain amount of money to run this country just where do you think that money is then going to come from?  People just like you and me - the working stiffs that are the least able to afford to pay the fright.  History shows it’s the Liberals that try to hold the line here.  And for passing taxes on the working man, the Conservatives could give lessons on that.  Remember a certain election a while back where a certain person made the statement, “Read my lips, no new taxes!” which cost him the election.  That is because during his 4 year term his administration set new records for taxing the low and middle income.  It’s a matter of public record.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2005, 03:49:12 PM »
Lawdog

The taxcuts for the rich story is a huge lie!!!! The bulk of the taxes is paid by the top 5% of the income bracket. I am under that group, but in a
range that the lieing Socialist Democraps would call rich, & they were
sticking me good, even though I do not make as much as a Congressman. I'm sorry, but tell this to a kid or something. The tax cuts that Pres. Bush has enacted has saved me several thousand dollars since they have gone into effect as my Accountant recently pointed out. And no, I am far from rich & yes I do know who has wanted to tax me to death. Clinton is the only Pres. to give us a retroactive tax increase. I Had the displeasure of watching him for 12 years before the other 49 States had the pleasure. President Bush Senior paid for his mistake & I am glad he did pay, except for who was elected instead, a good independent would
have been great, but not a Socialist. Some people understand that these
so-called rich are the employers & if you break their back, they will have
to pay less & offer fewer benefits.
I want to be cival, but don't tell the sky is orange if it is blue. Give me a break! I can read my tax returns.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
UNION BASHING
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2005, 04:27:59 PM »
Yes the top 5% of the income bracket do pay the bulk of taxes. but then the question arises, who should pay the bulk.
On a per capita income this figure is not the same.
Glad you are in this bracket, sincerely, however; This does not mean your taxes should be less because you are.
A flat tax base seems to be the fear of all in this bracket. Why?
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2005, 04:46:32 PM »
williamlayton
Please read my post more carefully. I am in the bracket under the 5%,
& still pay too much. Reading my post again, I see how you thought I was
in that group. No, I meant under, as below the 5%er's. Sorry.

I can't answer why THEY are scared of a flat tax. I think it would be better
than what we have now, if the % is not too high.

I would like even better a Nat. Sale's tax if the % is small. The poor are taxed less because they buy less. People could take great pleasure in
the rich being taxed when they buy those big ticket items. If a working
class family is strapped in the short term, buy used stuff for a while.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31333
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2005, 05:53:27 PM »
Lawdog;
 
  Most Conservatives promote free enterprise, hard work and patriotism..

Most Liberals promote socialism, nursing on a government teat...and fighting against God, Country and promoting perversion...


   NOW..THAT IS FUNNY..BUT TRUE !!!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
UNION BASHING
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2005, 06:21:14 PM »
What is funny people believe that it is true

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
UNION BASHING
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2005, 12:20:34 AM »
NOMOSENDERO-
 :oops:  :oops:  and  :oops: Again. I apologize, the only excuse is CRS and that, unfortunately; is no excuse but the reason.
The rest applies, though not to you.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
UNION BASHING
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2005, 05:35:07 AM »
Most wealthy conservatives do indeed support the things Iron Glow mentioned, so long as it doesn't effect the profit margin.  There is no fine line between conservative & liberal as much as folks would like there to be.  Our current global actions are anything but conservative even tho we have a conservative Pres & congress.  These conservatives are the ones putting most of the illegals to work as well, so wheres the patriotism? I guess American workers come in second to profit. Again, we wouldn't need unions at all if the wealthy took care of their workers in the first place.  :roll:
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline Echo4Lima

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
UNION BASHING
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2005, 09:15:55 AM »
Lever, no "evil" profit= no company growth/investment= no more jobs in the company= no more company to work for.  Everybody cant work for the government and somebody has to take the risk to make a business to employ others. Pretty simple economics.

My question: with Government laws as they are now in protecting workers, are unions that necessary?  Are unions themselves big business?  What happens in a union shop with an outstanding worker and the one that does the minimum? Those guys/gals are ALWAYS around. Well, guess what, they get paid the same!!  I guess you can see that my problem with unions is they keep good people down and bad people up.  Seem a little socialistic eh?

BTW I am a conservative but I am not rich!!  I own/operate a small business that has employed as many as 28 but now only have 5 regular employees.  If I carry any more employees than that, it costs me too much to run my business, I have to eat too.

Offline stimpylu32

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6062
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2005, 09:27:41 AM »
Just a bit of history , This was copied from the History of Labor Unions in America .


For the past forty years there has been a steady decline in both union membership and influence. There are several reasons for such a decline, the first having to do with employers keeping their businesses union-free. Some were active in their opposition and even hired consultants to devise legal strategies to combat unions. Other employers put workers on the management team by appointing them to the board of directors or establishing profit-sharing plans to reward employees. The second reason for union decline is that new additions to the labor force have traditionally had little loyalty to organized labor. Because more and more women and teenagers are working and their incomes tend to be a family's second income, they have a proclivity towards accepting lower wages, thus defeating the purpose of organized labor. The third and possibly the most important reason for the decline in unions is that they are victims of their own success. Unions raised their wages substantially above the wages paid to nonunion workers. Therefore, many union-made products have become so expensive that sales were lost to less expensive foreign competitors and nonunion producers.
 .

Richard Kohli
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
UNION BASHING
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2005, 10:41:27 AM »
Quote from: ironglow
Lawdog;
 
  Most Conservatives promote free enterprise, hard work and patriotism..

Most Liberals promote socialism, nursing on a government teat...and fighting against God, Country and promoting perversion...


   NOW..THAT IS FUNNY..BUT TRUE !!!



If you are going to start spreading the BS that thick, let me get out my paddle boat or at the very least put on my chest waders.  I suppose you actually believe that all the soldiers dying over in Iraq are Republicans?  Don’t try to give me that BS about Democrat/Liberals not fighting for God and Country!  You need to quit believing all the propaganda coming out of the GOP.  Now lets get back on topic talking about Unions.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
UNION BASHING
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2005, 12:33:27 PM »
Echo,


Its been my experience whether union or nonunion that the achievers go further than the lazy. The lazy get laid off first & picked up last. Theres no rules about getting more than scale either. I demanded it & got it. Why should I work for the same $ as someone with less experience?

Now then theres profit & then theres profit. I have been in buisness for myself before & understand all about profit. As I said before, in a right to work state like CT unions need to be competitive. Even tho they pay more & give better bennies they charge the going rate here. Its real suprising then that the union contractors are by & large more successful, grow larger & can get & do jobs nonunion guys only wish they could. Must be a labor problem no?  If these guys are willing to pay good money they would have good people. Problem is they go for the cheapest labor they can get & the work shows this. Theres good craftsmen that arent union no doubt but if I work for them theyre not going to give me what the union does, instead I get a check & whats left goes in their pockets.

As far as the Gov't laws protecting workers I musta missed something. Theres no law requireing health ins, a pension or annuity. Sure you can get your own if you like from your paycheck but remember that the guy your working for collects the same rates as a union shop (here) so why would you?
 I'v nothing against those who are nonunion & I may in the future, who knows. I wont be talking down the unions tho as I have no illusions that the reason I got what I got before coming here & the reason I get what I get now are both because of the union competition.
I dont need a union to protect my job. I didn't need a union to get my job. I dont go to union meetings & I certainly dont vote the way they want.  My boss got me in because he wanted me. I realize thats not the norm & alot of whats been said here regarding union work ethics is true to a large extent. Its also true that theres lazy bums in all trades & these days seems theres more bums than not. Just makes me & other hard workers more valuable as I see it.
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
UNION BASHING
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2005, 04:26:16 PM »
To some extent the analysis that Stimplyu32 presented is correct, with the exception of the section regarding wages being the major cause of price increases in union made products and this causing a loss in sales of those products to non-union and foreign produced products due to price, because it fails to account for increases in productivity of domestic workers.  The average annuals hours worked by American workers and our productivity are higher than other industrialized countries.

Ultimately unions in general will face a continued weakening of influence due to simply supply and demand.  The birth rates of developed nations have been falling for some time now, thus creating a scarcity in the labor market, lower supply versus greater demand equals high price for labor.  However we are no longer limited to only the labor supply in our domestic market area.  It cost less to export the means of production, plant, materials, and capitol and use the local labor supply, than to import a labor supply, therefore production moves to a location with lower labor supply costs.  There are other factors aside from normal natural market forces that will also tend to influence this migration.

Most notable are government policies, regarding public policy and spending priorities.  These would include such things such as infrastructure development.  Look at your phone bill, we still have a federal universal access tax on it, because years ago we decided that universal phone service was good.  Yet today with the changes in technology, we have not reached a similar consensus on wireless or cellular technology or internet access, and have left it to the “market place”, while the rest of the world by enlarge, especially in emerging and developing nation, have made it a matter of national policy and a priority.

Over eighty years ago we reached a consensus that electrification was good, witness the creation of the rural electric cooperatives.  We now have a haphazard collection of suppliers to a power grid with varying degrees of reliability and venerability, and have not built a major generating plant in over 20 years.  While in most parts of the world, the electrical supply is centralized.

Before you go off on an anti-socialist bender, infrastructure items are akin to a road system, I have yet to hear the most fervent free marketer suggest that privatizing our roads and highways would be an improvement.  There are some areas where public or government, is better suited to foster progress than to rely solely upon “the market place”.  Unfortunately ideological and political tripe preclude a discussion.

Look at oil, we have maybe 3% of the worlds oil reserves, we are stalled over the NWR, but instead of examining an issue we politicize it and demonize one group for the delay in exploration, mean while the group doing the demonizing, puts an even larger supply of oil, off the coast of Florida, out of bounds.  Being oil is needed by an industrialized nation; maybe it is time to rethink our approach.  We are vilifying oil companies for their pricing yet we have enacted public policy that limits their ability to bring oil to the market.

As we become a nation that produces more intellectual products than tangibles, you would think this would be a major focus of foreign policy.  Yet we have done little with our “trading partners” to protect the value of this intellectual property, aside from complain.  Whether it is chip architecture, software coding, movies, music, or medicine, some of our “trading partners” allow patent infringement with relative impunity, and in some cases encourage it, and yet our government has been completely ineffective in addressing the issue.

There are also legislative issues, such as pollution, worker safety, and health care.  Pollution was for many years an intangible cost of production.  While some may rail against the EPA, do you really want to go back to the days of the Monongahela River catching fire? Are industrial accidents like the one in Bhopal or the toxic spill in China acceptable cost of production?  What of the annual scaffolding collapses in China are these acceptable?

Then there is health care.  When we debated national health care, an issue that was little mentioned, was the cost of the delivery system we now have.  My clients spend approximately $300 per month per employee to provide health insurance to an employee, on a labor cost  basis this puts them at a considerable disadvantage, when competing against a company is not directly incurring a similar cost, like the majority of companies in the rest of the world. This is a huge expense, and it compounded by the fact that our work force is rather aged compared to the developing and emerging nations.  Yet because of ideology, rational discussion does not take place, it is dismissed as socialist, and while it may be it is also a factor that leads to a competitive disadvantage.  No doubt Organized labor’s positions on issues have resulted in outcomes contrary to their goals, however our nations increasing inability to engage in rational explorations of issues because of some ideological dogma, usually not evidenced by the actions of the party or parties who claim it, has done more to lessen our competitive position in the world than anything else that is controllable.  After all, at their peak unions only represented around 30% of the labor force, and at present barely represent 13% of the labor force.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2005, 04:41:16 PM »
No, ALL of the soldiers are not Republicans, but I know what the most
leftist segment of the Dems. think about the military & so does everyone
else.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
UNION BASHING
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2005, 08:00:02 PM »
In contrast to the opinions demonstrated by the number of top administration officials, and rightist conservative political leaders who have served in the military?  

Aside from the President’s, rather fortuitous National Guard posting, during Viet Nam, none of the top conservative leadership, Vice President Cheney, Sectary of Defense Rumsfeld, Speaker Hastert, Senate Majority leader Frist, or former House Majority Leader Delay ever served, and neither did Karl Rove.

Did you know in some countries the military is represented by a union?  There almost on topic.

They may talk the talk but it is somebody else is taking the walk, and talk is cheap.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
UNION BASHING
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2005, 01:02:20 AM »
This patriotic game some play has underlying tones of being self serving, does it not?
We all wish for prosperity, too some degree, and it is varied in all of us as to the defining of prosperity. To many it becomes greed.
I have no concerns at all with unions or right to work. I have no concern with ambition, under control.
I have concern with this nation and the direction it is going, and that is what I see all of us agreeing too here.
The ones with this all-consuming greed, it is a sickness/obsession, are the ones that I fear. The books do address this and warn of the consequences.
Unchecked, these can bring harm too all, and,well, it appears, at this time, they are going too.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
UNION BASHING
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2005, 09:09:21 AM »
fe352v8
Good post, & true. However it is one thing to have not served, but yet
pro military, as many of my friends are, but quite another to be non
supportive & hate the military as the left fringe of the Dems. do, which was
my point. And BTW, the Clintons, both of them are at the top of the heap!

williamlayton
I think we do have many of the same concerns, even though we look at it
differently.
All-consuming greed is bad, just like anything that is all-consuming is bad.
To me, no one has the right to say when someone makes too much, as
long as that person is not hurting others in the process.

As Greybeard said on another thread, we are alittle off topic with the
military & such & it looks like we have beat this union thing to death, so
its time for me to get back on a Deer stand & gun topics later.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Echo4Lima

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
UNION BASHING
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2005, 07:44:26 PM »
Lever,

Why should health care, retirement, etc. be an employers responsibility?  Following that logic, perhaps employers should provide lunch too. Shouldn't individuals take more responsibility for themselves?  

Take a good look at GM.  What do you think that is all about?  How much does it cost to produce a P/U truck in this country? I've been an employer since 1989.  I pay GOOD money for QUALITY people. If I was a union shop now, I would have to take what they give me off the bench, and have to tolerate it if I got a s**t b**d.  If I did get some body good and want to pay him/her more, the union would jerk all my employees. Then where would I be? You cant just dump somebody off.

A talk radio host in Sacramento once told a story of when he was in a restrurant in Yugoslavia.  He complained of the lousy service to his friend.  The friend reminded him that "everybody gets paid the same no matter how good/bad the service or how hard, or not, they work". I would say go to any union shop and you'll find the same. Unions have become the last vestiges of attempted socialism in this country.

Here in Kalifornia, you can trace the decline of student test scores with the increase in the teachers unions' influence. Look at the costs to taxpayers to fund the public employee unions. The last major bastions of the unions are the govt. jobs.  The civilian sector simply cannot afford it any more.  The unions have, without question, priced their members out of their jobs.

BTW, I have provided healthcare "shared cost" programs with my employees, 1/2-1/2.  A local union found out about it and had the program provider raise my rates so high I had to drop it.  The unions thing was that I, not being union, shouldnt benefit from group rates like they did.  14 of us lost our coverage.  The cost went from $260.00 a month (I paid 1/2, the employee paid 1/2) to $590.00. (1994 dollars.)

Offline Echo4Lima

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
UNION BASHING
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2005, 07:58:17 PM »
Lever,

I re-read your post and thought I would add that I respect "self starters".  I detect that in your post. I also had to join the union like you describe.

Had I stayed and played the union game, it would have taken me 10 years to do what I did for myself in 4.  Hey, I could not only do the work, I could do it better!  Why should I be held back?!  

The Marine Corps teaches that not only do you need to know your job, you need to know the mans below, and the mans above.  Good formula, it works if applied...

I will add that most employers aren't "getting the rest" and getting rich off the employees.  Especially in construction.  A lot more than not, the "getting the rest" isn't that much after the overhead etc is paid.  Its a common thing to hear how much "$$ so & so is making off me".  I've had my lead people go home many a week with a hell of a bigger paycheck then me.  Even accounting that I put in a whole lot more hours.

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
UNION BASHING
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2005, 12:03:41 PM »
Quote from: Echo4Lima
Lever,

Why should health care, retirement, etc. be an employers responsibility?  Following that logic, perhaps employers should provide lunch too. Shouldn't individuals take more responsibility for themselves?  


Your right, it wouldn't be an issue if a nonunion boss paid the same as a union guy but they dont. Maybe in the check but not the whole package & they get the same money here.
Quote from: Echo4Lima

Take a good look at GM.  What do you think that is all about?  How much does it cost to produce a P/U truck in this country? I've been an employer since 1989.  I pay GOOD money for QUALITY people. If I was a union shop now, I would have to take what they give me off the bench, and have to tolerate it if I got a s**t b**d.  If I did get some body good and want to pay him/her more, the union would jerk all my employees. Then where would I be? You cant just dump somebody off.


As I said it doesn't work that way here. The unions have to compete & you can certainly let a bum go or pay over scale as my boss does me
Quote from: Echo4Lima


A talk radio host in Sacramento once told a story of when he was in a restrurant in Yugoslavia.  He complained of the lousy service to his friend.  The friend reminded him that "everybody gets paid the same no matter how good/bad the service or how hard, or not, they work". I would say go to any union shop and you'll find the same. Unions have become the last vestiges of attempted socialism in this country.


People join unions voluntarilly in the hopes of getting a fair shake & while some may abuse it I think calling then socialists is a bit overboard. They dont all get the same rates either, we have 4 different pay scales from commercial to residential in an attempt to be competitive & in those different catagories theres journeymen, formen, shop stewards & such all getting different pay scales.
Quote from: Echo4Lima

Here in Kalifornia, you can trace the decline of student test scores with the increase in the teachers unions' influence. Look at the costs to taxpayers to fund the public employee unions. The last major bastions of the unions are the govt. jobs.  The civilian sector simply cannot afford it any more.  The unions have, without question, priced their members out of their jobs.

If they priced themselves out of jobs then its a nonissue with you. I will agree that municipalities do seem to go overboard but thats what happens lacking competition. Once everyones union in any given industry the greed takes over & things go crazy. I think thats why its a bit different here cuz as I keep saying we have to be competitive.
Quote from: Echo4Lima

BTW, I have provided healthcare "shared cost" programs with my employees, 1/2-1/2.  A local union found out about it and had the program provider raise my rates so high I had to drop it.  The unions thing was that I, not being union, shouldnt benefit from group rates like they did.  14 of us lost our coverage.  The cost went from $260.00 a month (I paid 1/2, the employee paid 1/2) to $590.00. (1994 dollars.)


Now I'm not picking on you & dont take it the wrong way but if your truck insurance went up would you drop it? What of equipment ins or liability?  Your employees are the number one income maker for your company & theyre not worth extra $ for insurance? Do you still have insurance for yourself? Did you put the money you were paying towards their insurance into their salaries?

Again things might be different there but here the nonunion bosses by & large are definately putting the extra in their pockets. Where else is it going?
They have no costs the union guys dont have, they charge the same & pay less. You figure it out. I'm not knocking them, its America & anyone can do as they please. They have big boats & houses, nice cars & vacation homes & their employees rent apartments & drive pick ups living paycheck to paycheck.
Me, I'll take the most I can get for my abilities, if a private company makes me a better offer I'll take it but it aint gonna happen.
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline Echo4Lima

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
UNION BASHING
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2005, 10:14:38 AM »
SocialISM, not socialists.  There is a difference. Wasnt refering to people being socialists, but to the concept of socialist idealogy- everyone is equal and there for gets the same regardless.  Yes, those in responsibility positions get paid more and should.  I'm refering to the general employee, lets say for a lack of a better term, on the floor.

The unions here are different.  I think its due to the decline in membership/business participation that is making them very protectionist.  Kalifornia isnt what it used to be.  Scale here is a joke due to 90% of trade work really paid as piece work, then with dues, etc on top, scale is an illusion. My top people make what the union people actually clear.  I dont pay piece work. Sam is the only one scavenging off their checks. Really want to see an example of union monopoly without much pay, Nevada.

Dont carry heath insurance at all, not even for myself.

Auto insurance is a different animal, so cant really compare.  Average auto insurance here (for me) is $1200.00 annually. (Per vehicle) Average GOOD health care for employees now around that monthly. Any thing else is very limited.

I guess it all relates to ones experience and perspective.  I saw, and still see, unions as a stumbling block.  Some see them as a starting block or the track itself.  All in all the concept just doesnt sit well with me.  Its bad enough to pay Sam so much of ones check then also pay out part of that same check to be able to have a job.  Seems like extortion in a way.  Your paying someone to be able to work, while that someone is making a GOOD, secure, buck off your work.

Thats the way it is, whats good for one isnt for another. People do what they do and think what they think  Now, I'm not knocking that at all!  Thats just the way it is. Thats what makes the world fun, why we have chocolate and vanilla..........

Enjoyed the posts Lever, Take Care...

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
UNION BASHING
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2005, 10:51:29 AM »
Quote
Dont carry heath insurance at all, not even for myself.


How do you figure to pay for the up to $5,000 a day hospital costs should the need arise?

Quote
Auto insurance is a different animal, so cant really compare. Average auto insurance here (for me) is $1200.00 annually. (Per vehicle) Average GOOD health care for employees now around that monthly. Any thing else is very limited.


May I ask what state do you live in?   :?   Here in California, outside of my business insurance which covers all the rest of our vehicles, I have three cars/trucks(2004 Dodge Durango Limited, custom 1977 Ford Bronco and 1970 Plymouth Road Runner Superbird) covered under personal insurance and I'm not paying $1,200 annually for complete coverage for all of them.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Leverdude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
UNION BASHING
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2005, 12:24:43 PM »
Quote
Thats the way it is, whats good for one isnt for another. People do what they do and think what they think Now, I'm not knocking that at all! Thats just the way it is. Thats what makes the world fun, why we have chocolate and vanilla..........

Enjoyed the posts Lever, Take Care...


Agreed, people need to do whats best for them in their minds & since situations differ dramatically in different places the solutions will differ as well.
 :D
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
UNION BASHING
« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2005, 03:03:19 AM »
Echo made an interesting comment.
"Why should health care, retirement, ect be an employers responsibility?"

Interesting. Normal business practice is to try and find the best and most responsible employee. It proves to be a benefit to the business.
Time was these things we are discussing proved to be important things for the employee. Normally these supplemented a pay which was in line with what the industry in question required to get good, steady help.
There were a couple of small, non-union refineries here in Houston that failed to provide these  things. Their help would come from the unexperienced or less than capable experienced.
Their turnover  rate, due to the operators finding better wages elsewhere, caused much problems for these plants.
maintenance was slack, safety was slack, experience was not there. These industries had/have many problems with injuries and explosions and fire. They have been sanctioned and sold many times.
Most, with any knowledge of the industry, will not work there.
All done in the name of greed.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
UNION BASHING
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2006, 04:05:43 PM »
Deleted
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
UNION BASHING
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2006, 04:58:05 PM »
Next time use protection, for now a dose of Penicillin should cure what ails you.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
UNION BASHING
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2006, 06:15:39 PM »
Thats not where I meant jon, but I bet you knew that. It  does not matter now as I deleted that message as  the recipient is gone due to name calling.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
UNION BASHING
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2006, 07:05:46 PM »
I was just kidding you.  Have good week-end

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
UNION BASHING
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2006, 06:15:32 AM »
You too.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.