Private land confrontation

[Gregory]

The good news is I have permission to hunt 80 acres of private land, the bad news is there is only about 10 acres of prime deer woodland habitat on the 80 acres.  To the north of me is 70 acres of prime woodland.  For five years I've hunted this land and I've taken 7 deer off of it.  The landowner to the north denied me permission to hunt his land (he hunts it himself) but has allowed me to follow up any deer I may hit that go on his property......until today.  
 
I've tagged out for this county but was on the land today (unarmed) and saw two hunters walking through the land I have permission to hunt on.  Having had my tree stand destroyed last year, as well as having hunters cross "my" land in prior years, I confronted these two and told them they were crossing private land.  It turned out to be the landowners to the north's son.  He said I've been shooting 'their deer" and if they couldn't cross "my" land I no longer had permission to follow up any wounded deer on their land.
 
I called the landowner tonight and he said the same thing as his son, that if they couldn't walk in on my property I couldn't follow any deer up on his.  I've always respected his property and never hunted it , but I have followed up three deer that ended up on his before expiring.
 
I told him I'd respect his wishes but, I'd keep shooting deer until they dropped on the property I was hunting (I was P'ssed off by this time) and told him don't be surprised to find dead deer on his property next year.
I know his son likes to push deer off my area on his way in and it has bothered me for some time.  His attitude that I was shooting their
deer really set me off.  I avoided any more confrontation with the son as he said I was molesting their deer drive and I elected to call the dad.
 
Any suggestions on a better way to have handled this?  
 
[/b]

[cattleskinner]

You said that you have permission to hunt on the 80 acres of land, so I take that to mean that you don't own it.  My question is, is there any other hunters allowed to hunt on the same property as you, and/or do you have control over who hunts on the land?  If you do, I would just tell the guy who owns the land to the north of you the same thing that he tells you...that he can't hunt on the land, and can only track wounded deer on "your" land.  It just doesn't quite add up that he can limit your amount of travel on his propety, yet his son can tramp on yours, even if it is on the way into their land.  If it was me, and you catch them on your land, and they hadn't asked for permission to be there(i.e. to track a wounded deer), to just call the game warden.  That should take care of the arrogance pretty quick.  Just my opinion though.

~~~Amos

[victorcharlie]

 
Any suggestions on a better way to have handled this?    
 
[/b]

 
Daddy always said you catch more fly's with honey than you do with vinegar.......Instead of using the opportunity to build a relationship with the neighbors to the north, and maybe get permission to use the land.....you made things worse........Why didn't you offer to help him find his deer?  A little good will goes a long way......seems the son was a little hot headed......why didn't you try to defuse it instead of aggravating the situation?...I don't know if you'll be able to straighten this out or not.....seems you have more to loose than they do..........I'd let a few weeks or months go by before approaching them again.......and maybe start the first sentence with "I'm sorry" the next time you see them........
 
Yes, he may be arrogant, but you make the choice about how your going to respond........and men of honor don't do things for spite.........treat all men with dignity and respect regardless of how they treat you..........

I think your a gentleman and man of honor........but let the situation get away from you......never respond to anger with anger unless you want a good fight........Hopefully you'll be able to improve the situation with a little work......

[NONYA]

you will probably be lucky if your hotheaded conversation with the land owner and his family dont get you tossed of the property you can hunt,not a good way to treat people that own land next to your friends,maybe you should talk to the land owner before you start kicking people off his place?

[JKump]

As a side note, I know down here in Georgia the law states that the hunter will make every effort to retrieve a shot game animal.  So if you shot the deer legally on your land and the deer run over to some one elses land the hunter has the right to retrieve his deer.  As an Police officer down here I have witnessed several such disputes, and 75% of the time the hunter gets his animal.

[NONYA]

Here in MT you may not retrieve your animal off of a property you dont have permision to enter even if you can see it,on top of that you can be cited for wasting game if the F&G finds out you left one for any reason.

[Redhawk1]

I never understood it. Why do so many people get into arguments over deer hunting. I have see more friendships dissolved over this. I try to get along with other hunters that border the land that I hunt on. There are some exceptions, such a when I had 2 nice ladder stands stolen of a lease in Maryland last year, I followed the 4 wheeler tracks to a farmer behind the land I hunt. The farmer would not talk to me, his wife said he was not home, but his truck was parked outside his home. Now if we catch him this year it will be a different story.  :twisted:

Some times no matter how hard you try to get along with bordering property owner, it does not work. It take 2 to have a agreement.  :?

[tscott]

As a former land owner I never confronted tresspassers, better left to the authorities! I got a great relationship with an owner who lets me hunt his 47 acres. He doesn't want me to confront anyone. I wouldn't anyway!
If you don't own the land, I don't know why you would confront anyone,
particularly in light of the Wisconsin tragedy. Also, it's clear (when I rarely
hunt public, that there is substance abuse) that there are some nuts out there with guns.
Who needs a situstion like this? It's only deer hunting. I'd find another place to hunt! And don't confront anyone, particularly if you don't own!!

[Gregory]

To address some of the above comments
 
1. I've gotten along well for five years with the neighbor to the north, as long as I ignored his trespassing.  
 
2.  The landowner of the land I hunt has told me to tell people who trespass that they are not welcome. This permission was made after my treestand was destroyed.
 
3.  The son of the landowner to the north accused me of shooting their deer, obviously they (or at least the son) do not want me hunting this little patch of land to the south.  They were clear five years ago I would never be able to hunt their land which was ok by me and I've respected that.  
 
4. The law in Illinois is that you must have landowners permission to follow up any wounded deer or to even walk on the property.
 
5.  I called the landowner of the property I hunt on and explained what happened and he does not have a problem with what I did.  
 
6.  I was unarmed when I confronted the son trespassing and I did back off when he got an attitude.  I don't plan on getting shot over a deer hunting spot but neither do I plan on ignoring these people continuing to trespass.

[NONYA]

maybe you should stop hunting along the boundry and take better care to drop your deer asap so you wont ever have to go on his place to retrieve deer,im sure that his son thinks your retrievals are becoming common and he likes to hunt his place without somone trailing wounded deer through it.Just stay away from them or hunt elsewhere,you dont have any other options.

[Gregory]

maybe you should stop hunting along the boundry and take better care to drop your deer asap so you wont ever have to go on his place to retrieve deer,im sure that his son thinks your retrievals are becoming common and he likes to hunt his place without somone trailing wounded deer through it.Just stay away from them or hunt elsewhere,you dont have any other options.

 
 
The 10 acres of woods doesn't leave me much room  to move any farther away from his border, I've recovered two deer off of his property in 5 years.  Both were shot on my side.  I did move my stand three years ago farther from the boundary and I have been dropping deer without much tracking since switching to a 357 Max.
 
On both occasions I've had to track on his property they were not there hunting at the time so I wasn't molesting their hunting.  Both deer were recovered within 20-50 yds on his side.  No long tracking jobs.  I think I've been a pretty good neighbor.   Since I no longer have permission to  follow up a wounded animal on his land I will not set foot on it per Illinois law.  
 
NONYA, Do you think his owning 70 acres gives him the right to trespass?
He has never sought permission to use the land i'm on, yet contrary to law, he trespasses.

[cattleskinner]

It might be that I'm a bit younger than you fellas, and a bit more hot-headed, but if it was me, I'd just sit down with the owner of the land you hunt on, and discuss the matter with him.  The owners to the north of you have made it clear that they don't want to work with you on the matter in any way, shape, or form.  The son seems to have a bit of a selfish streak in him "claiming" all the deer in the area for himself.  While I get a bit frustrated with people hunting close to or crossing our land, I know that the deer will be back, and if not...it just wasn't meant to be.  Hopefully the son will grow out of his attitude problem, but from the way that the father sounds, maybe he won't.  Just talk with the guy who owns your hunting spot and tell him what you plan on doing so that when/if you confront the neighbors again the landowner is on the same page as you, and has your backing in case it does come down to the game warden coming out and writing citations/warnings.  Hope this helps.

~~~Amos

Oh yeah, and the comment about making sure they drop on your land is a good one....while it messing up a bit more meat, shooting the deer in the upper shoulder should drop the deer where it stands the majority of the time.

[NONYA]

right on,put em down where they stand and you will never have to set foot there again.Nobody has the right to tresspass but it seems to me that before this happened you were allowed to go on thier place and then you ran them off,seems fair to me.There is nothing you can do unless you buy the land,if you cant shoot deer with having them run accross the property line just dont hunt there.

[varmit_master]

Hi his happen to my brother a few yrs back. The deer was shot on his friends land. And the deer did make it to fence and got on land that this guy didnt want any hunting. My brother ask the man if he could go after the deer and he said NO. So my brother called the Wildlife office over that co. and he said he would be right there. My brother show the W/O where he shot the deer and the blood all the way up to the fence. And the w/o went right over the fence and got my brothers deer said if the man comes out and dont want me going after it he will get a ticket for wasteing widlife. Said if it ever happen again call. But dont go after it becasue if he did and the w/o wasnt there and came up when he was on the other guys land he would get a ticket for treaspassing. I am glad it turn out that way. Hate to see a deer goto waste. Gregory i think i would have done the some thing.  Plus now i try to shoot my deer in the shoulder so they will drop where they stand. VM

[beemanbeme]

You have permission to hunt.  Is it a paid lease that gives you exclusive hunting rights?  Or can the owner allow others to hunt?  Does the owner of the land have an agreement or "understanding" with his neighbors?  One thing you and others of your ilk should remember, the owner of your hunting land has to get along with his neighbors 365 days a year, not just a couple of weeks.
The holler I live in has 5 other families living in it.  Between us, we own several hundred acres.  We have a understanding that we (the immediate families) can hunt anywhere and everywhere on this land without written permission and can ignore any no tresspass signs that are posted.  When my son who doesn't live at home, comes to hunt, I make a point of calling each family and  asking permission for my son to hunt.  When Uncle Charlie or cousin Zeke comes to visit them, they do the same.

[Gregory]

Nobody has the right to tresspass but it seems to me that before this happened you were allowed to go on thier place and then you ran them off,seems fair to me.

 
NONYA
 
I was NEVER allowed to walk in on their property, nor hunt their property. I was restricted to crossing onto their land ONLY to follow up a wounded deer.
So in return they should be allowed to trespass?  That doesn't equate to me.

[NONYA]

The fact is that you dont own the land so you shouldnt be handling this kind of situation,turn it over to the land owner and respect his decision.

[Gregory]

You have permission to hunt.  Is it a paid lease that gives you exclusive hunting rights?  Or can the owner allow others to hunt?  Does the owner of the land have an agreement or "understanding" with his neighbors?  One thing you and others of your ilk should remember, the owner of your hunting land has to get along with his neighbors 365 days a year, not just a couple of weeks.

 
No paid lease just permission to hunt, my landowner does not allow anyone else to hunt this parcel of land, nor does he hunt.  We are talking strictly farmland and small woodlots, no one has a residence on these lands.  My landowner owns many acres in widely scattered parcels and and is careful about only granting permission to hunt to one party per parcel of land.
My landowner didn't even know the name of the owner of the land to the north till I told him.  This is 70 acres of crop land and just 10 acres of woods.  
 
beemanbeme
What exactly do you see as my ilk?

[Gregory]

The fact is that you dont own the land so you shouldnt be handling this kind of situation,turn it over to the land owner and respect his decision.

As I've stated before:

2. The landowner of the land I hunt has told me to tell people who trespass that they are not welcome. This permission was made after my treestand was destroyed.

[varmit_master]

Hi so the guy that lets you hunt said to run the the people off that trespass. Then i would the boy that you caught walking acrross you. I would make shure he knows not to be back over there. If they are going to do you that way then i would do the same thing to them. My wife family owns little over 1000 a. And there isnt very many people that hunts it few family memebers. And i know where the stands are and where they park. But the first thing i was told if i seen any body trespassing to run them off. My wife family gets mad about trespassers. I dont ask any body but my nephew he is 10 to come up and hunt. Becasue they had a bull shot  and it die. And you talking about mad :evil: Nobody around us talk to hunt on there land. I have some of my friends ask if they could hunt and i had to tell them No. :roll:  Dont like to But i am just doing what i was told plus i dont own the land yet! VM :wink:

[myronman3]

The fact is that you dont own the land so you shouldnt be handling this kind of situation,turn it over to the land owner and respect his decision.

As I've stated before:

2. The landowner of the land I hunt has told me to tell people who trespass that they are not welcome. This permission was made after my treestand was destroyed.

if the landowner says run them off,  you have the authority to do so.  

you said you were unarmed when you talked with the son.  GIANT MISTAKE.   this is what my friends and neighbors did with chi vang, and when he started shooting, they could do nothing.   now 6 of them are dead.    EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEARN FROM THIS.

always have a gun.    and if they are going to be unreasonable,  just write down backtag numbers and call your local enforcement agency.  

it sounds to me like the neighbors have been taking advantage of the agreement.  there is a difference between going to your stand, and making a push through the property.    be sure you have a clear understanding with the owner of the land you are hunting, and use sound judgement.

[swiftman]

In Ill you have the option of calling the Game Warden and having them approach the land owners to the north to retreive any deer that you have shot that have crossed onto thier property. The land owners don't have to grant this right but are more likely to when aproached by GW. Just a thought.

[swiftman]

I have lived in Ill all my life and the spaces for hunting deer are growing smaller all the time, between the out of state people leasing hunting rights or buying out right.  and people building homes in once prime deer habitat.  The TV shows have people crawling out of the wood work coming here to shoot all the monster bucks that are supposedly hidding behind every tree for them to shoot. There were some out of state hunters that leased the hunting right to a section of land that had no real woods but only pasture with wooded draws. They ran the neighbors son of the the neighbors land needless to say it did not go over to well.  
It won't be long here in Ill if you don't own it or have relation that do you will have to pay.  
Most of the people around here can't afford or justifi buying  land that has bend timbered and is not worth the asking price to begin with to hunt deer.  But out of area people do all the time.
This is the main reason I don't gun hunt anymore, but the bow hunting is starting to get the same way. I had a man from Wisconsin walk into me on my bow stand this year, long walk HA HA .   There were at least 4 other guys hunting on the property that I was on this year. Makes it hard to kill big buck when there is that much pressure in one area. Big bucks don't get that way by being stupid, will ethier leave or go nocternal.
I will have a small 5 acres woods on my moms 120 acre farm if all else fails. I vidio taped a large nine pt there during gun season. But there are not as many deer in that area as there should be because of the neighbors dogs running lose and poachers. Plan to remedy dog problem if apropriate time comes with 30-06 diterent.

[Gregory]

swiftman  
 
Hi neighbor!  I live in Robinson, just down Rt 1 from you.

[Chuck White]

I haven't checked on this issue in a couple of years, but this is the way it was here in the past!

Here in NY, the Game Wardens have the authority to escort a hunter onto restricted property if his wounded deer has crossed the property line!

Many of the above posts are absolutely correct though, don't confront a hot head, especially if there are firearms involved!

GO TO THE AUTHORITIES!

[varmit_master]

Hi they do the same here in Arkansas too. VM

[kymac]

I live in Kentucky about 1 mile from Mammoth Cave National Park.We have 287 acres ourself and the rights to another 310...If we shoot a deer and in runs off on someones elses land or even the National Park all we do is call the game warden and he will go with us to get the animal.The only thing is ,if there is a fence you can't cross or go under it.You are required to enter by the gate only.If the gate is locked the owner must unlock it but he cannot keep you from getting the animal..

[swiftman]

I have a uncle that has a farm that his boys farm just west of robisn maybe amile on the north side of the highway Joe Smitley is my  uncles name and his boys that farm there are Steve and Brent. I don't know if they would let you hunt but they may know some people you could ask.
Some people will more likely to let you bow hunt than gun hunt so maybe best to ask about bow hunting first.

[Land_Owner]

If the land owner grants you verbal or written permission, what "rights" do you believe he has conveyed?  IMO, none other than trespass and hunting rights on that piece of property.  Trespass is the land owner's legal problem and your hunting problem.  These are mutually exclusive problems.

Suppose you were to meet the GW and he was to catch the trespassers.  I believe it would still be up to the land owner to prosecute.  That means time lost and $$'s out of his pocket regardless of the outcome.  Are you willing to pay the land owner's legal bill for prosecution?  

Then there is the possibility of ill will between land owners following such an event, even spilling over to other adjoining land owners that were not involved.  The "splatter effect" as I call it.  It is also possible that the other land owners are having the same problem and would be grateful to see it come to a head.

How much "face time" have you spent with your land owner?  This can really work to your advantage BEFORE problems arise.  After a confrontation is not a good time to start getting to know your land owner; but it is never too late to start that process.  Do you help him in the off season?

As a land owner, I confront these same issues - and I get (wrongfully) hot headed pretty quickly too.  As I have seen (and hopefully learned) and as victorcharlie said

...you catch more fly's with honey than you do with vinegar...[unquote]As a fellow hunter, I have your same feelings about the space in which I hunt - wishing for a pristine situation for the best possible outcome.  Cattleskinner, with all of his youth, has the right attitude

While I get a bit frustrated with people hunting close to or crossing our land, I know that the deer will be back, and if not...it just wasn't meant to be.[unquote] and swiftman has hit the proverbial nail on the head insinuating that our hunting heritage is slowly becoming a rich man's game.

[victorcharlie]

My wife loves to watch the hunting shows that come on OLN on Saturday mornings........She has a hard time understanding that the average guy can't afford to go stay in a lodge with a French chef who serves up phesant underglass...........Some times I make comments like " there's another $10,000 elk hunt."  Half day quail hunt.....$350.........doesn't sound like much money but it is to a lot of people........

Hunting space is getting harder and harder to find.....posted land, and sue happy lawyers........I'm driving farther and farther than I ever have..........cost keeps going up........I think your right........the poor man is going to have a tough time hunting in a lot of the country in years to come..........

Any one ever really price the cost of deer meat?  Lets see.......my part of the lease is $235 + $56 in license fees + $8 dollars a trip for gas........economically, it really doesn't make sense..... I figure large mouth bass cost me about $125 a pound.....and it's getting politically incorrect to keep them.......catch and release ya know?......and let's face it.....The days of a man filling his freezer with deer and crappie are about over........more and more "rules and regulations" from the state prevent it..........don't mean to sound negative, but game and fish has become big business.  I've said this before......when I was a kid, hunting and fishing regulations would fit on a tri fold card and fit in my back pocket.........now, over 50 pages of hunting and about the same or more for fishing..........a fellow needs a lawyer to understand it.........

It's frustrating to me.........I wonder if my grand children will be able to enjoy it..............