Author Topic: Grisly stopper????  (Read 9778 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chief

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2005, 05:37:33 PM »
IMO it's not that a handgun can't stop a bear.   A brain/spine hit with a 44 is going to put a bear down fast.  It's more of an ability to get a good hit, the bear knowing where you're at, and it being all pumped up.  If he gets to you before killing over, you loose.  I personally have a lot more confidence in getting a good hit with a rifle and in a caliber big enough to get his attention.

Offline DirtyHarry

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 567
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2005, 06:55:49 PM »
Everyone knows that a big bore rifle is the best defense against large bear, what I don't get are the people who think it is foolish to carry a large caliber handgun along with the rifle. I guess they are assuming in the event of a bear attack it will always come from the front, but what happens when you are surprised from the side or rear and you are either separated from your rifle or simply don't have the room to manipulate it?
For me personally, I would carry,(along with my rifle) a 500mag in bear country and feel pretty confident that in case I couldnt use my rifle for whatever reason, a 510grain slug moving at about 1700fps from a handgun would get Mr. browns attention right now.
The early bird get's the worm, but the second mouse get's the cheese.....

Offline Castaway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1105
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2005, 12:37:40 AM »
Have to chime in again.  To paraphrase Elmer, use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle.

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2005, 02:10:51 AM »
Quote from: wyocarp
For those of you who don't feel a handgun will stop a big bear, take a look at this thing.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0600/601.htm

I believe this might be the answer to the right gun question for bear.


Birdman is a 50 BMG shooter. He also has a site where he makes up guns and different gadgets in the computer world. He has home-boy sights for the sides of Glocks and a nuclear 50 BMG round. All gags.  :D
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2005, 02:20:53 AM »
Quote from: wyocarp
For those of you who don't feel a handgun will stop a big bear, take a look at this thing.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0600/601.htm

I believe this might be the answer to the right gun question for bear.


How are football odds going to stop a bear?
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2005, 02:25:02 AM »
I'll ask the bear gurus again, in a bear charge, where are you going to shoot for? I don't care what type of gun you carry or the caliber, where are you shooting at? Brain, heart, where? If shot placement is paromount, where should the shot be?
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline wyocarp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2005, 04:06:48 AM »
I wasn't serious about the 50 BMG pistol guys, just having fun with you, although it just might work for one round up close.

On a more serious note, it is very surprising to me to find so many guys that think it will be easier to get a good shot off with a rifle than it will be with a pistol.  What the heck is the difference?  If you have never been charged by a wild animal, you don't know how overwhelming it is.  Guys talk about a head shot like it is something that every hunter should be able to hit.  The only thing one can think of in a charging situation is shooting whatever you have in the general direction of the animal.  It might be a little better than that, but I think that is the emotion that overwhelms a person in that situation.  I had a game warden ask me once if I had thought about turning and running.  I asked him why I would think about that with a gun in my hand.  The animal doesn't know the difference between a pistol and a rifle.  As long as it penitrates past the hair, fat, and bone, the animal will drop.  Granted, there are only a couple production handguns that might fit in this category, but they are out there.

Offline Buddy in AK

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2005, 08:10:53 AM »
The Ugly Truth (like ywocarp says) SHOOT IN THAT DIRECTION !

I know 2 guys that have been in this situation.  One shot at the ground right in front of the Griz (maybe on purpose?) and the bear changed its mind and turned into the brush.  The other guy had a rifle with one in the chamber while deer hunting.  The Griz was suddenly right there, the guy FRANTICALLY tried to jack a round in the chamber (before firing the first one) and jammed his gun.  The Griz turned into the brush and was gone.

You never know?  Just be Bear Smart in the woods and hopefully avoid the situation.  That being said - I'd shoot for the skull with a hard cast 300 gr in my .44 Mag. and hope for the best.

Offline SJPrice

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Great Idea ah er hmmm, Maybe not!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2005, 08:40:39 AM »
I read some advice from some guys saying to practice for a bear attack  by having someone bounce basketballs at you and trying to shoot them with your bear pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun.  At the time I thought it sounded like a good plan to train your reflexes.  Now that I think about it a little more I am pretty sure you would have a hard time getting a volunteer to throw basketballs when I was planning on throwing back slugs at a bouncing moving target.  Okay, back to the drawing board for a way to practice shooting at something that is running right at you.   :-D

Offline Lost Okie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2005, 01:16:38 PM »
Guess I might as well add the directions I received from my outfitter in Northern Montana when I was hunting Black Bear with my .54 muzzleloader and round ball.  "Since your not carring a backup, roll the hammer back and wait till he's close enough to stuff the barrel down his throat and then pull the trigger, brace for the impact and IF your lucky there will be enough left for us to sew ya back together".  Recieved lots of direction on what not-to-do and how to pray...

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2005, 02:54:31 AM »
I personally like staying on top of the food chain,
so I tend to stay out of Bear country..
But I have a few words on the tear gas theory.
I worked in law enforcement for many years, and have
witnesses many a man wade through clouds of Gas
and still have plenty of fight left in them on the other side.
A light breeze blowing at the Bears back will render that gas
pretty much useless when you spray it except to cover you
with it. As I have stated before though, at least maybe
you won't be able to see what is eating you...
I guess maybe that would be a plus ?
Don't trust your life to a Gimmick....Have a special order
TC Contender made up in .416 Rigby and then maybe you
will have a Big Bear handgun... ;>)
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2005, 03:45:21 AM »
S.Sumner, I think it's pepper spray not CN or CS? I have witnessed the tac squad from a local correctional institution voluntarily take a hit of Pepper Spray and none of them were happy campers. Took most of them several minutes to be able to operate again, even with the special drops for their eyes. Still, I don't agree with a spray doing someone in a bear attack as much good as advertised.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline SJPrice

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Seasoning
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2005, 03:59:40 AM »
I am always reminded when I hear "pepper spray" of all the post where they refer to pepper spray as seasoning for grizzly's meals.

Offline wyocarp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2005, 04:37:49 AM »
The question I asked the president of UDAP Bear Spray last year was if they had any videos of charging bears being sprayed with pepper spray.  His response was, "That would be too dangerous."  That was all the answer I needed.

He does have a video of himself using it on a friend that wanted to try charging at him from probably about 50' away.  It looked very painful.  I found it very interesting that the friend made it all the way to the guy's feet and actually a little beyond while being sprayed.  

The moral of the story:  Add to the mix, 1 pissed off bear, weighing 3-5 times as much, traveling 5 times faster (he was an older guy and looked to be quite slow) and in my opinion, unless that bear wants to stop, he's going to be running right through you with pepper spray in his eyes which is just going to piss him off a little more and now you're out of spray and you yourself can't see which way the bear is coming from the second time.

Offline SJPrice

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Pepper Spray
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2005, 04:45:35 AM »
Bear Spray!  Kind of like b**ch slapping a Sumo Wrestler suffering with painful hemroids.

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2005, 12:09:33 PM »
In my years as an LEO I have seen tear gas, MACE and pepper spray used on everything from men, women and dogs with varying results.  If the person(or animal) is “jacked” on drugs(and adrenaline is a drug) the effect is limited at best.  Most times it has zero effect.  Then there is always a certain percentage of the population that is immune to the effects.  I have had to do a few reports where “dog pepper spray” was used on an attacking dog with no effect.  Didn’t stop the attack.  Sure there are a few reports of “bear pepper spray” working and just as many reports where it failed miserably.  Personally I am not going to bet my life or the lives of loved ones on a spray can.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline wyocarp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2005, 05:54:16 PM »
Lawdog, good comments.  My real problem is that they are selling this spray like it is going to save your life.

In a live demonstration with inert cans of spray, people weren't even able to get it out and spray a PERSON running at them before the person ran into them.  That is when it was emphasized that the spray had to be worn in a chest holster, with the safety off, and with your hand on the can of spray when you think you might be in danger of running into a bear.  Wow, I'm thinking that if you have to do all that, then you might as well leave the can back at the store because most people are going to wear the thing on their belt out of the way and will completely forget about it until after the animal has started to charge.

Offline Daveinthebush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Hey bear, hey bear. Bobo, Bobo bear.
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2005, 06:04:44 PM »
Actually wearing little bells to alert the bear to your presence is the best preventative medicine. :roll:

I also have a bridge for sale in New York City if anyone is interested. Cheap!

BEAR ADVICE MAY NOT RING TRUE

IN PRELIMINARY STUDY, GRIZZLIES DIDN'T FLINCH AT RESEARCHER'S BELLS

By Elizabeth Manning - Anchorage Daily News

For years, conventional wisdom has advised people to make noise to avoid
dangerous surprises while traveling in Alaska bear country. For those who
choose not to talk, sing, clap or bang on a cook pot, that usually means
wearing bear bells, a tried-and-true hiker's accessory.

But do the bells really work, or work the way we think they do, a federal bear
researcher asks. Though he emphasizes that it's too soon to draw any broad or
definitive conclusions, Tom Smith of the U.S. Geological Survey's Alaska
Science Center has tested a group of brown bears that seemed to pay bells no
mind at all.

Over several days last fall, while doing other research about bear behavior
along the coast of Katmai National Park, Smith hid in a blind near a
well-traveled bear path and pulled on fishing line attached to a string of
bells tied to an alder bush. Not one bear looked in the direction of the noise
or even perked up its ears, Smith said.

"This doesn't mean bear bells don't work," he said. "It just means the bears
didn't respond the way we thought they would. Not one of them reacted to the
bells at all. It's fascinating stuff."

Smith said he first tinkled the bells lightly. The bears didn't respond. Then
he yanked on the line, making a jangling noise "almost as loud a fire alarm."
Fifteen groups of one or more bears walked past. Not one flinched.

He didn't think the bears were deaf, but he wondered. So he snapped a pencil
to mimic the sound of a twig breaking. The bears immediately turned and looked
at the biologist's blind, about 150 feet away. A loud huff, mimicking the
noise of another bear, elicited a similar response.

The lack of reaction to the bells doesn't prove anything, Smith said. Other
factors could have contributed, including a relative lack of aggressiveness in
Katmai bears compared with other Alaska grizzlies.

Still, the results are intriguing enough that Smith wants to investigate
further.

He emphasized that it is premature to tell people to stop wearing bear bells.
They certainly might help in some circumstances, he said. Bears in some places
might learn to associate bell sounds with humans, he said.

Smith spends most of his time studying brown bear behavior and bear-human
interactions. Along the way he has made some observations that have led him to
take a closer look at long-held assumptions about how bears see, hear and
smell.

He is the same researcher who discovered two years ago that pepper spray, sold
as bear repellent, can attract bears if used improperly. In effect he found
that the bears seemed to like the taste or smell if the repellent was sprayed
on the ground or an object, not directly in the face.

Because brown bears are naturally curious, Smith thought they would approach
the bells to investigate. Why would they ignore them? Maybe, he said, bears
tune out tinkling just as they might tune out other nonthreatening background
noises, like birds singing or a stream gurgling.

This summer, he plans to do a more thorough study. If he gets funding, he
plans to put out a recording of different noises - human voices, a dog
barking, snoring, acoustic guitars, pots and pans - at various decibel levels
to learn more about how bears react. He also wants to try his experiment on
other bear populations in the state.

Not a lot of research has been done on bears and bells, he added, and some of
it is confusing. A 1982 study in Glacier National Park in Montana pointed out
that the only people who were charged by bears were not wearing bear bells.
The same study also said that people wearing bells observed bears at a much
closer distance than people not wearing bells.

If Smith's hunch is right, it would upset some of the prevailing advice about
how to avoid bears: Make noises not found in nature to warn bears you are
coming.

Most Alaska guidebooks offer identical advice about hiking in bear country:
Talk, sing, shout, rattle pebbles in a can, bang on a pot or wear bells. Helen
Nienhueser, co-author of "Fifty-Five Ways to the Wilderness in Southcentral
Alaska," one of the state's best-selling hiking guidebooks, said she uses
bells when hiking alone. Some hiking guides prefer talking and singing for
hiking in places where it's hard to see or be seen.

Nienhueser said she started using bells more often while hiking to her cabin
south of Denali State Park after a woman and her son were killed at McHugh
Creek just outside Anchorage five years ago. "I'd be disturbed if they don't
register hearing bells," she said.

Jim Holmes, who staffs the public information counter at the Alaska Department
of Fish and Game in Anchorage, said he fields bear questions all day. He gives
people advice similar to what appears in guidebooks: Make a lot of noise or
wear bells.

"Bells are a 100 percent sure thing," Holmes said. "Everyone will agree that a
lot of bear attacks occur because someone surprises the bears. If a mama bear
hears bells, that's not bird singing or water gurgling. She stands on her hind
legs, gathers her cubs and goes away. I've never heard anyone say that bells
are background noise in the woods."

Bear bells are popular and are apparently becoming more so, according to sales
clerks are Recreational Equipment Inc. in Anchorage. The store sold 5,128 bear
bells last year.

The bells REI sells are made by a Canadian company called Hip Joint Inc. They
come in bright colors, from purple to yellow to orange, and are fastened to
REI's register displays by their Velcro bands.

The bells are best-sellers at REI. "We run out of them all the time," sales
clerk Bri Pallister said. "A lot of tourists buy them. Kids like them too. And
little babies are fascinated by them."

She said she doesn't hike with them because she finds them annoying. But her
golden retriever, Herbie, wears one so she can find him when he runs off.

Another clerk, Johan Soderlind, also finds them annoying: "I think they give
you a false sense of security. The best defense, I think, is your voice. I
usually sing a song. Or I speak in Swedish. That way it doesn't matter what
I'm saying. I can say balloon, car, washcloth, whatever.

"Or the good old 'Hey, bear, hey bear' works too."
AK Bowhunting Certification Instructor
AK Hunter Certification Instructor
IBEP Bowhunting Certification Instructor

Offline Qaz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2005, 03:23:57 AM »
I really did not want to get in on this post, but I will. If carrying a handgun makes you feel good, great, carry it. If you are carrying it because you are too lazy to carry a rifle in bear country, then one of two things are happening. There really is no bear threat or you need to be taken out of the gene pool any way.
 I would venture to guess that most here have very little experience or contact with large animals that want to kill you. I have the pleasure of loading bulls that weight between 1000-1400 pounds on a trailer 1-2 times a year to sell. The cattle have very little human contact and have no fear of you. Moving them from the corral into the trailer is uncomfortable at best and can be dicey most of the time. When you get a truly mean one, all the rules change and you will learn real fast what explosive power and speed is all about. I have had several close calls and now have my 375 magnum sitting in the back of the truck in the form of a 85lb bulldog!
 Although I have never had personal contact with a grizzly bear, I have stood and watched one tear a shelter to pieces, It was amazing. the sheer power of the animal. There is a big difference between hunting one and defending your self against one. One last thing, when a bull has you in the cross hairs, whether it is in a field or in a pen and he has made it to with in 15-20 feet of you at full bore, what is in your hand is the last thing you think about. I would say that it is 10 times that bad with a bear.

Qaz :D

Offline Lawdog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4464
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2005, 09:34:19 AM »
Quote from: wyocarp
Lawdog, good comments.  My real problem is that they are selling this spray like it is going to save your life.

In a live demonstration with inert cans of spray, people weren't even able to get it out and spray a PERSON running at them before the person ran into them.  That is when it was emphasized that the spray had to be worn in a chest holster, with the safety off, and with your hand on the can of spray when you think you might be in danger of running into a bear.  Wow, I'm thinking that if you have to do all that, then you might as well leave the can back at the store because most people are going to wear the thing on their belt out of the way and will completely forget about it until after the animal has started to charge.


The very best defensive weapon against a bear(I don’t care what type) attacks is the one located between ones ears.  A little caution, common sense, knowledge of the terrain around you and the animals that inhabit that terrain will do a lot more in protecting you than anything else. Violate any of these and you can get into trouble.  Been there.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline S.B.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
Re: Great Idea ah er hmmm, Maybe not!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2005, 11:58:05 AM »
Quote from: SJPrice
I read some advice from some guys saying to practice for a bear attack  by having someone bounce basketballs at you and trying to shoot them with your bear pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun.  At the time I thought it sounded like a good plan to train your reflexes.  Now that I think about it a little more I am pretty sure you would have a hard time getting a volunteer to throw basketballs when I was planning on throwing back slugs at a bouncing moving target.  Okay, back to the drawing board for a way to practice shooting at something that is running right at you.   :-D


I think you've greatly misunderstood my earlier post. I DID not suggest you practice with a basketball. It was more of a question than advice.
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA
AF&AM #294
LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years/now retired!

Offline PaulS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2005, 12:15:12 AM »
This thread is called "Grisly stopper" and we are talking about HANDGUNS?
I don't think there is a handgun made that can stop a grizzly and if there is I don't think I want to fire it (unless I had to). I just read an article about an Alaskan Fish and Game officer that emptied ? rounds into a charging bear (the biggest on record) from a 7mm magnum before it dropped. They found four entry wounds and parts of the body of the last guy that had tried to stop the bear in his stomach.
Do you really want to attempt to stop one of these bears with anything smaller? I will probably never have to face a grizzly here in Washington State which is good because I don't think I have a gun that I would trust to the job. Hunting them is one thing but trying to stop one when he is ticked off and charging is a whole other can of worms. Its just one of the few places that I never want to go.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline Daveinthebush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Paul
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2005, 04:40:33 AM »
Paul:  The bear you are referring to is called "The Bear That Won't Die" on the Alaska Forum.

The complete story is there and it is now where near what is going around on the internet.  Sometimes there is a picture of a mangled person to go along.  That guy was killer by pit bull or rottweilers.
AK Bowhunting Certification Instructor
AK Hunter Certification Instructor
IBEP Bowhunting Certification Instructor

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
bears
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2005, 08:15:27 AM »
Here is a born and raised in Alaska opinion, and I will go through a few of the different calibers.
.44 magnum, not for a grizzly.  If you are in black bear country, and you are quick, and I mean quick with a handgun, this will do, but blackies normally only get up to about 350 lbs.  We are talking about grizzlies though, which get up over 1300 lbs.
.454 casull, still not for a grizzly, way more power than the 44, but not enough.
.480R, .475LB all in the same category.
The .45-70, .460XVR, and .500SW are the only things I would feel almost semi-comfortable... but not really.  If you get charged by a 1000lb plus grizzly, and you hit him.. he will keep running.  I've seen bears get shot through the shoulder, then going through both lungs, and the bear running 50 yards before dropping.
If you want real protection, high power rifles, as in .300 Weatherby as a minimum starting point, do the job really well.
Also, shotgun slugs have come a long way.  I usually use a sawed off 12 gauge with rifled steel slugs.  My old man once stacked up plywood and viced it together, and the damn things went through 14" before it stopped.  The are called rohtweill (don't give me a spelling test), and they work damn good.
So all in all, you can be fairly safe with blackies with the biggest handguns out there.  You can't feel totally safe with brownies with a handgun.  They make special slugs for shotguns, or use a rifle.  Just a suggestion though, if you are gonna take a rifle for protection, use open sights.  When you need protection from a bear, its already within 20 feet of you... and being that they can run up to about 60 miles an hour in short bursts, you want fast.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Daveinthebush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Corbanzo
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2005, 08:30:50 AM »
Corbanzo:  Brenneke and Rothweiler (Don't check my spelling either and I can't open another broser to look it up) merged several years ago.  

Brenneke's are hard.  You can hardly scratch them with a fingernail.  I think they quench them as the lead is cooling to make the harder.  Great slugs.  Have never put one through a bear as usually an arrow has done the job first.  But they are the only ones in the gun.
AK Bowhunting Certification Instructor
AK Hunter Certification Instructor
IBEP Bowhunting Certification Instructor

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2005, 10:09:49 AM »
Quote from: PaulS
This thread is called "Grisly stopper" and we are talking about HANDGUNS?
I don't think there is a handgun made that can stop a grizzly and if there is I don't think I want to fire it (unless I had to). I just read an article about an Alaskan Fish and Game officer that emptied ? rounds into a charging bear (the biggest on record) from a 7mm magnum before it dropped. They found four entry wounds and parts of the body of the last guy that had tried to stop the bear in his stomach.
Do you really want to attempt to stop one of these bears with anything smaller? I will probably never have to face a grizzly here in Washington State which is good because I don't think I have a gun that I would trust to the job. Hunting them is one thing but trying to stop one when he is ticked off and charging is a whole other can of worms. Its just one of the few places that I never want to go.


Hello, this is the HANDGUN HUNTING FORUM!!! So why not talk about HANDGUNS???? Am I missing something here? :roll:
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Qaz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2005, 02:11:17 AM »
Redhawk, I like your dedication and confidence in the 500 mag.
 I think the verdict is in on handguns from the people that live with the big bears, no handgun caliber is adequate and the biggest calibers are barely adequate if everything works out perfect!
  I think the judge and jury has spoken on this one; Big caliber rifle or shotgun if you need protection, big caliber handgun- remove sights, because it is going to hurt both directions  :)  :)  :)
  For those that believe a handgun is a big bear stopper, that is fine if the only person you are fooling is yourself. The ones that take this advice to heart are the ones that will potentially pay the highest price when they rely on the gun instead of their head to keep them out of trouble.

Offline SJPrice

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Okay this one is getting fun.
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2005, 05:55:09 AM »
Hey S.B.

My comments about practicing with someone throwing basketballs was just a joke.  Have you seen the price of a basketball these days?  They are more expensive than a box of 500 S&W's.  Sorry that you thought I misunderstood you.

As  for the rest of the discussion concerning 44 mag, 454 Cassul, 475 or 500 Linebaugh, 45-70 rifled slugs, 300 Weatherby etc.  I suggest folks take a look at John Taffin's article on penetration tests that were done.  It was eye opening and interesting to say the least.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_158_26/ai_86704793

The article is from American Handgunner, July 2002.  It is my understanding that some very serious hunters are using 454's, 475's and 500 (you can add the developers names) to harvest the big five in Africa.  Since I have no personal experience and I doubt many if any here do, I can  only surmise that a Grizzly would not be harder to stop than a Cape Buffalo, an Elephant or a Rhino.

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Grisly stopper????
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2005, 10:01:02 AM »
Quote from: Qaz
Redhawk, I like your dedication and confidence in the 500 mag.
 I think the verdict is in on handguns from the people that live with the big bears, no handgun caliber is adequate and the biggest calibers are barely adequate if everything works out perfect!
  I think the judge and jury has spoken on this one; Big caliber rifle or shotgun if you need protection, big caliber handgun- remove sights, because it is going to hurt both directions  :)  :)  :)
  For those that believe a handgun is a big bear stopper, that is fine if the only person you are fooling is yourself. The ones that take this advice to heart are the ones that will potentially pay the highest price when they rely on the gun instead of their head to keep them out of trouble.


OK Qaz, My first choice for bear defence is always a rifle. With that said, I use a handgun as a back up to the rifle. Are you following me or am I going to fast?? If I could not get to my rifle, and had a handgun on my hip, I think it is a better choice then my fists or a knife. Your remove sight joke is about worn out in my opinion. The best defence is using good judgement when in bear country, but even then anything can happen.

I guess Tred Barta was the biggest fool of us all, he used a long bow and wooden arrows to hunt Grizzle.

This thread was about a bear stopper and is posted in a handgun hunting forum, Why would anyone think we should not be discussing handguns???

So given the choice of a handgun and nothing, what would you want when a bear is coming after you.?? :roll:
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline SJPrice

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Talk about really stupid!
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2005, 10:37:06 AM »
Now that you mention it I think Fred Bear used wooden sticks and sinew to take at least one Polar Bear.  Now in the scheme of things I think a Polar Bear is without doubt the nastiest of all the current living creatures on earth.  Makes a big bore handgun seem real sane now doesn't it.