Author Topic: Need advice quickly..hope I'm in the correct forum...  (Read 469 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Need advice quickly..hope I'm in the correct forum...
« on: November 28, 2005, 11:57:01 AM »
Gentlemen;
  My Grandson Josh, is a Marine..his special ops unit is on an assault-amphibious ship... at this moment nearing Iraq..
  He is not only Spec Ops, but he is his unit's "designated sniper". His weapon for this job is his M16, Acog, night vision equipped. He will have a spotter with him that has an spotlight that will wash his targets in infra-red.
  When he is not sniping, he will be kicking in doors carrying his Mossberg 500 and Beretta 9mm.
  Now, he and I both hail from the moist, loam soiled Northeast..I have heard that the white powder sand is terrible on close tolerance weapons such as our troops have.
  I have very limited experience in such conditions...

   I am asking you guys that hunt/shoot under powder sand conditions for tips on keeping jams away and lube advice.
   
    Would Break-Free help ?
 
   Since he is also the company armorer, good advice will go much farther than just to his weapons...you will be helping the Battalion Landing Team of the 22MEU..
   He is close enough to deploy by now and could be called upon for a special mission at any time..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline John Traveler1

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dry dusty conditions lubrication
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2005, 12:18:03 PM »
The military specifies that for hot, dusty, dry desert environments, that all small arms be cleaned with CLP, and then be completely wiped off, and the moving parts lubricated with dry graphite lubricant.

CLP or any other lubricate is not as good because it attracts and hold dust and grit.

Cleaned "ready use" weapons are then kept wrapped in dustproof plastic wrappers until needed.

HTH
John

Offline jack19512

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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2005, 12:25:03 PM »
I am a ex-marine myself and I am not trying to be a smart a**  so please do not take it that way but shouldn't your grandson have the training and knowledge he needs to keep his weapons in top service condition?

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2005, 06:57:06 PM »
Jack;
  Yes, he has plenty of training for his weapons, he has even recieved a meritorious mast for his weapons training of a group of corpsmen that were headed for Iraq.
    Now, let's get this straight...he didn't ASK me to inquire for him...
   
  Perhaps I phrased my question wrong, but I am just a concerned Grandpa, looking for those tips that that may not be covered in the FMs and TMs. Those extra little bits of Knowledge that can give him an edge.

  Often times, troops that have spent time in such adverse conditions learn little hints and tips that are not in the TMs.

   For instance.. How many young soldier or Marine has lost his life, simply because either noone told him or he forgot, to tape his dogtags..

  Yes, he is an outstanding armorer as well a being top rifleman in his unit. He achieved a fairly rare thing in the Corps...possibles at 300 and 500 yards in rapid fire. He always of course, qualifies and requalifies  "Expert".
 
   But as when I  started him hunting, I taught him everything I could think of, however, if a well versed neighbor wanted to give him a couple good, workable tips for the field...I appreciated it.

  At  the moment he is qualified for a couple belts in martial arts, but he expects to be a certified Marine martial arts instructor when he comes back, by training when he's aboard ship.

   The way I see it, as well versed as he is, when he faces that enemy...there is no way a person can possess TOO MUCH knowledge.

  I was Army ..M1 and M14..a bit different weapons system...

  So any extra hints and tips you who have "been there, done that" can offer would be appreciated..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2005, 02:39:53 AM »
There is no lube that comes close to "MOLY" in a dirty/sandy situation its at its best because it doesn't attract dirt.  It prevents wear,  removes all friction and prevents galling.  It also prevents corrosion and stays were you put it and stays wet, it doesn't dry up even over long term storage. You can burnish it in and wipe it off and its still there protecting your gun against everything listed above. The gun will cycle faster and smoother too. Moly works into the small pores of the metal so there is no more metal to metal  contact its moly against moly thus no friction and no wear.

I use it on my trigger sears to reduce trigger pull by up to 50% right away and more as it works in.  I use it in my 1911a1 45acp pistol on the slides and barrel bushing. In my semi auto rifles on the trigger sear, bolt carrier/bolt and in the gas system. In my bolt action rifles on the trigger sear and bolt/bolt lugs. In my revolvers on the trigger sear and cylinder stud.

I HAVE NO CLUE WHY OUR ARMED FORCES DON'T USE MOLY IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME ONES NOT DOING THEIR HOME WORK OR RESEARCH  IN THE HIGHER RANKS.

GO TO; www.tsmoly.com     ("TS-70")

I use it in all my guns and on my semi-auto's the bluing never wears off the rails on the recievers where the bolt carrier rides because of the moly wearing against itself. You can use what you like but my guns never leave home without moly in them.  :)

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2005, 09:55:38 AM »
Thanks D MAN..
  That is about what I was looking for..
   I can recall that even though the Army trained me well , they didn't have ALL the answers.
  I recall reading that when the M16s started arriving in Vietnam, the Army was having more trouble with them than the Marines were...and I mean beyond the non chrome-lined barrel..
  Seems the Army powers-to-be insisted on using ball powder, even though Stoner distinctly specified flake powder...
  The Marines used flake powder from the start...

   If we recall history..Custer's boys were using trapdoor Springfields, while  a good percentage of the Indian attackers were using Henry repeaters...
   The military is not always quick to adopt worthwhile adaptations...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2005, 02:54:49 PM »
The M16 has been plagued with problems ever since nam its not a very reliable weapon to this day.  We have lost many service members because of the M16's failure and i would like to see the numbers from nam to this day for sure its still one piece of crap. Everyone who has used it to this day know it too. No flame intended but it pisses me off when i think about the M16.  I built/assembled 155mm howitzers for the US ARMY and I took it personal to do my job right because their lives depended on me doing my job right.  I rebuilt lathes from ww2 that machined the breech boxes for the 155mm gun too years before i got the assembly job.  I also built CNC lathes that manufactured the main rotor, turret bearing races, upper and lower for the M1 Abrams tank.  Were talking a vertical turret lathe with a 108" chuck. For the last 17 years I worked for one of the top ten engineering groups in the country developing new products and  life testing new products for reliability. We also tested lubricates too.  While i may not have the so called battle field experience I sure do have the credentials to say what i use, what works in the application and stand behind it.  I have used and tested moly in ever situation you could think of ever since the early 70's when my buddie at Dow Corning at the test lab gave me some to try where they developed it and after they tested it.  They ran a new jeep with moly in the oil on a race track then took the oil pan off and made another lap with no oil then put the pan back on with oil and it had no noises or rattles or knocks. The motor never froze up. They used in over heating gear drives too and they ran cooler.

My personal experience with it is I added it to my 4x4 truck in the engine and standard trans and transfer case and differentials and i drove this truck and hammered it for 152k and when i sold it the still  motor ran like new and the trannies had no wines either.

I rebuilt a tractor once and did up the motor with the moly paste.  It had a crank with a solid round rod bearing that you needed to press it apart to check the bearing.  I didn't take it apart but it happened to be spun and the oil hole was lined up when i checked it.  There was no play in it when i checked it. It was a freak thing the bearing turned and the cylinder got no oil.  I was on my third garden tilling when it sputtered.  I finished it and took it home to do my garden.  When it sputtered again I took it apart.  The rings cooked and the piston and cylinder were ok.  If it wasn't for the moly it would of cost me big bucks. This was a 800lb cast iron tractor with a tilling attachment. Its farm equipment.  Moly is like having an insurance policy you don't know about till something goes wrong and its needed thats when you realize it works and how good it is.

So moly is for extreme pressure and wear situations also so why not for guns too? I am probably the first one ever to use it in a gun application too.

On another forum there was a guy complaining about wear on his op rod the bluing was wearing off to bare metal.  The other guys on the site said it was the norm for the op rod to wear and it was acceptable.  I chimed in and said that all wear is unacceptable and it can be prevented by using the right lube.  I sent him a sample of moly and he reblued the op rod and took it out to test fire it after 200rds the op rod showed no sign of wear at all the new bluing was still present. Like i said in my very first brand new chinese sks inside the reciever the rails are still blued and there is no sign of wear at all yet.  I put a little in the gas system too on the piston.  Even if it looks dry after firing it, its still present in the small pores of the metal protecting against wear.

I took out my new saiga after I moly'ed it up and hammered it and I went home to clean it.  I assembled it after wiping out the excess moly and later on we took it out to hammer it again.  I remembered on the way home i forgot to moly it up again.  I took apart the reciever and took out the bolt carrier and no wear was present at all the rails were still blued. Like i said its an insurance policy we have even when we screw up it saved my butt.

I'm not blowing out my pie hole here it works and i have proven it does many times.  I would never suggest something i didn't test or try myself.

I say get him some moly and let him burnish it in and wipe it dry then add just a little a very thin coat will do or you could wipe it so there is a thin coat of moly left in the M16 then test fire it.  If using moly could prevent the M16 from jamming and that would sure be an improvement to its track record. Since it doesn't attract dirt so in a sandy condition it should be good too.

I am not making fun of what anyone uses I'm spreading the word there is a lube out there that prevents wear,  reduces all friction and prevents galling it doesn't attract dirt and stays were you put it.  It stays wet even over long term storage too.

I have nothing to do with the manufacture of moly nor the sale of moly but i do have something against  WEAR of any kind.  My guns will never wear out because I plan on handing my guns down to the future generations of my family so they can enjoy them too what great, great grandpa started and left for them.  In the years ahead who knows what surplups will available for them to buy if any so i'm thinking about them now ahead of time with the few that i have.  :D

I use TS-70 moly at www.ts-moly.com  

The gun will cycle faster and smoother it cuts the cycle time down so much its noticeable. You can see it if you really know your weapon. This can be a big factor when your life and your buddies lives are on the line they are depending on you too.

Offline jack19512

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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2005, 03:49:14 PM »
ironglow

Please believe me I meant no disrespect.  As an ex-marine myself I know your concern.  But I was a little concerned about someone asking about such advice on a internet forum.

Everyone has their own personal beliefs about cleaning and lubricants when it comes to firearms.  Many debates have raged and still do.  Also I would think most of the people on these forums do not subject their firearms to battlefield conditions.

I would exercise extreme caution about taking advice from just anyone on any internet forum.  I hope you understand the well meant point I was trying to make.

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2005, 06:33:44 PM »
Quote from: jack19512
ironglow

Please believe me I meant no disrespect.  As an ex-marine myself I know your concern.  But I was a little concerned about someone asking about such advice on a internet forum.

Everyone has their own personal beliefs about cleaning and lubricants when it comes to firearms.  Many debates have raged and still do.  Also I would think most of the people on these forums do not subject their firearms to battlefield conditions.

I would exercise extreme caution about taking advice from just anyone on any internet forum.  I hope you understand the well meant point I was trying to make.


Trust me its the best $25 you will ever spend for a gun lube.  All you have to do is to try it once and you will find out its the best lube on the planet.

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 01:20:36 AM »
Jack;
  No offense taken..I only spoke firmly because I am SURE that my  grandson is highly professional in his armorer position. He trained for months at Aberdeen Proving ground ordnance school (yes, The Marines have a detatchment there)..He is well versed with firearms since childhood and he was chosen for special ops BECAUSE of his proficiency with both repair and use of such weapons..

 D Man & jack;
  You both having served in or for the military as I did, I think we all know that they generally buy good stuff....but not always the BEST. With the sand problem in Iraq...I want my grandson to HAVE THE BEST !

   I've already suggested that if he can get hold of an M14 for his sniping duties...he should grab it !
   I have rolled in S Carolina & Texas sand with them...and nary a blip..but the white powder sand of Iraq may be different..

   I had doubts about the bore cleaner we used by the gallons, when compared to say, Hoppe's # 9....but we have to figure there are budget considerations when the Army or Marines use thousands of gallons of the stuff...   Shucks,we used to pore it down the bores of our tank gun tubes from 5 gal cans...

   Same with all the military procures...it's good stuff, but there budgetary limits...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2005, 04:30:29 AM »
ironglow;  I hope i didn't say anything to miss lead you i was never in the service, they turned me down when i tried to join back in the nam days. I tried to join the navy at 17.  Then when i showed up for the draft turned me down again and sent me home.

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2005, 04:42:53 AM »
D Man;
  No misunderstanding here..that's why I said "in or for" the military..
  Evidentally some of your engineering work was for the military...and so you would be familiar with " budget limitations"..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2005, 12:21:31 PM »
One problem answered:
     My grandson e-mails me when he gets back aboard ship..I asked him about the powder sand tending to jam the M16s. I also told him that I planned on sending some commercial lube for his weapons if he needed it..
   He told me that they used to have real problems with the lube they were using...but now have a much better lube...containing CLP...that is the stuff that Break-Free has in it..
   Apparently this product works best of many they tried..after initial jamming experiences...
 
  Actually his M16 is used mostly for his sniping assignments..the Mossy 500 is his door-to-door weapon, while the Beretta is his "just in case" go to.
   Although he regularly qualifies expert with all his arms...he is not impressed with the Beretta...since the hardball 9mm doesn't provide the punch he likes..
   He says the Corps is talking about readopting the .45..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)