Author Topic: John Murtha  (Read 1578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sheila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
John Murtha
« on: November 30, 2005, 04:33:42 PM »
Anybody who needs to pull out is him. Putting  Johnstown, and the rest of the country, plus our troops in danger. He made that speech just to win votes, and  some of the people here are stupid enough to vote for him. May as well wave a white flag with a ckicken on it to the terroists.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2005, 07:44:03 PM »
One has fruit salad, and one does not.

BushÂ’s Awards

National Defense Service Medal

MurthaÂ’s Awards

Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.
Purple Heart, 1966.
Purple Heart, second award, 1966.
Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline Sheila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
John Murtha
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2005, 07:02:07 AM »
So, those  awards don't make Murtha a better person. He put this country in danger.  I bet the terrorists were cheering hin on when he made that  irrespnsible and stupid speech.  I don't care how many medals he got, he's still  a  stupid, anti-Bush hating ogre.  He may as well be friends with Cindy Sheene, and Michael Moron.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline Sheila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
John Murtha
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2005, 08:12:28 AM »
If you think Murtha is such a great congressman, then you can have him. He hasn't done anything for this area. He had all the coal mines here closed down.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline tucoblue

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 148
John Murtha
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2005, 11:19:54 AM »
Medals do not = brains.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2005, 12:26:29 PM »
People change.  Even good marines can be lost.  Even Bennadict Arnold was a "great war hero" at one time.  Let his constintuates decide his fate.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2005, 12:55:44 PM »
Thank goodness there is another explanation for the dwindling coal production from the Appalachian Basin, aside from the fact that it has been mined since the 1830s and the majority of coal remaining is more expensive to collect.

Most thought it was due to the low price of coal and the development of the Powder River Basin and Texas Louisiana Lignite coal reserves, which are closer to the surface and thus much less costly to collec,t that had led to the loss of production in areas like Pennsylvania.

Clearly a breakthrough, who would have thought that a congressman, even a Democrat, could be the true cause of this, and not market forces or increased difficulties of recovery along with their added expenses

As you have solved the “mystery”, behind the closing of the mines, perhaps you could help us understand the decline of the US steel industry, and then maybe the shoe industry.

Platitudes do not equal patriotism

What is the definition of victory in Iraq now?  The things we are hearing from the administration are eerily reminiscent of statements 35 or 40 years ago about another government that with our help was going to be stable, democratic, and able to defend itself.  It is beginning to appear that we will soon be celebrating a similar “victory” in Iraq.

Whenever politicians talk of limited engagements, the only thing limited is their comprehension of the situation and the requirements to bring about the stated goals.  There was never enough in resources or manpower to achieve the goals stated for Iraq, and when the resistance arose this became even more evident.  It takes more manpower, money, and time to win a peace than to win a war.

Considering that almost every assumption put forth by this administration, about the threat posed by Iraq has proven wrong, it would seem that those who do not question the administration now, are those that stand to profit by this administrations policies or they are naïve

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
John Murtha
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2005, 01:04:52 PM »
YUP!
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Nightrain52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
John Murtha
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2005, 01:28:08 PM »
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, nobody has the right answer. The only way to win a war is totaly destroy the whole country. Thats the only way to win a war, a way most countries aren't willing to take. :?
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline Shorty

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
John Murtha
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2005, 08:37:38 AM »
Anybody who compares Iraq to Viet Nam ignores the fact the North Viet Nam had full the backing of the Soviet Union.  The Iraq "insurgents" have the full  backing of   Syria!  :roll: maybe   Iran :roll:

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2005, 12:10:55 PM »
Actually they are comparable in several ways.  True, this is not a “cold war” proxy war, as Viet Nam was or even the former Soviet UnionÂ’s involvement in Afghanistan was.

Both Iraq and Viet Nam were conflicts were the ideological doctrine was better developed than the strategic objective.

Viet Nam had, Communist domination of Asia, Red menace, and the Domino theory.

Iraq has, Axis of evil, State sponsored terrorism, Middle East domination by radical Islamic fundamentalists.

Both were/are fought as conflicts of limited engagements.  Wars of limited engagements require deployments and resource allocations for decades if any of the limited and constantly changing objectives are to be sustained for any period of time, or they end in a strategic defeat.

 The first conflict that the US entered, as a war of limited engagement, was Korea.  It has been over 50 years since a truce was signed, not an armistice, not a peace treaty, a truce, a prolonged cease-fire.  We still have troops there and maintain a sizable readily deployed forces in the event the truce should be broken.  If we were to leave Korea, and it became apparent that we would not redeploy there, South Korea would be annexed by the north in a matter of weeks or months.  If the Soviet Union is anything to go by we will achieve “victory” in Korea when the north implodes, probably in another 5-20 years.  

Viet Nam was the second limited-engagement war we fought in.  After signing the treaty of Paris, in January 1973 ending the war, and withdrawing our ground combat forces it took lees than 24 months for South Viet Nam to collapse.

The end to a war in which we never lost a battle, do you think the current Iraqi government would survive even a year if we left Iraq?  Even without aid from surrounding states I doubt they would make it as long as South Viet Nam did, and we were there helping the South to become self sustaining for over 10 years.

Both Viet Nam and Iraq relied upon debatable assertions from our government to precipitate the deployment of troops.

Viet Nam had the attack on the destroyer Mattox, or the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.  Which is now general believed not to have even occurred.

Iraq had WMDs, nuclear, biological, and chemical programs, plus links to Al Qaeda.  Which have yet to be confirmed and are appearing to be convenient misinterpretations if not fabrications of intelligence.

Both have generated stories of abuse, these incidents do not happen because we are sadists, they happen because of the frustrations of our troops.  Our troops have won the battles, but they need a had a plan to win the war, and we do not have one for Iraq any more than we did for Viet Nam

While there are differences, to be sure, between Viet Nam and Iraq, our patterns of behavior are reminiscent.  The shadow of political expediency lays upon this war just as it did on Viet Nam, and I feel a growing sense of foreboding that the results will be similar, the only solace is that we do not have near the casualties, as in Viet Nam, yet and the country is not as torn apart as it was.  However that could change, Johnson did not cut and run either and Bush seems to have adopted his war policy as a model.  The neo-cons like Perle, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, remind me a lot of the “whiz kids”, like McNamara, that Johnson surrounded himself with.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2005, 05:05:07 PM »
Murtha was a hero once,so was Benedict Arnold and Duke Cunningham..doing the right thing at one time does not mean you will ALWAYS do the right thing...

  Our troops did not lose the war in Vietnam..they didn't even lose any major fights...
  That war was NOT LOST..it and the troops were ABANDONED by congress..Old Teddy (the water safety expert) and his henchmen...when they voted to DEFUND the troops.
  No matter how well they fight, they can't do well without fuel, supplies and ammunition...

   Congress "cut and ran" and the same old cowards want to do the same thing again !!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2005, 07:18:16 PM »
US forces never lost a major engagement in Viet Nam, and they will not in Iraq either.  

But South Viet Nam, is not free democratic, or self-sustaining.  In fact it failed to exist less than 2 years after we left, and if you accept this as victory than I can understand your support of the President's conduct of the war in Iraq.  He is clearly on track to accomplish the same victory in less time and with lower casualties then we could have even dreamed about in Viet Nam

There is a little more to the story than just Teddy and his henchmen, as regards the end of the Viet Nam war.

In 1967 the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution passes by a vote of 88 to 2, at the time the senate had 66 Democrats and 34 republicans

By 1969 Nixon had reduce troop levels by 55,000

In 1970 Senators McGovern (D) and Hatfield (R), jointly introduced an amendment to a spending bill calling for the immediate withdrawal of all US troops, it failed by a vote of 55 to 39, at the time the senate had 57 Democrats and 43republicans.  

In 1973 the senate voted 69 to 19 to cut off funding of the bombings in Cambodia, at the time the senate had 54 Democrats, 44 republicans and 2 of other parties.

Just as Johnson did, BushÂ’s rational for war has changed, along with the objectives and the definition of what constitutes “victory”.  The publics trust of itsÂ’ government is far lower to day than it was in 1967.   When contrasting Viet Nam and Iraq the old refrain, “fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me.” Will grow louder.

The public will not be near as trusting this time, and if the Republican Party should lose seats in the 2006 mid-term elections, “victory” will be declared sooner in hopes of avoiding defeat in 2008, regardless of the realities on the ground.

To most, “cut and run” is a kin to cowardice, to politicians it just means cut your liabilities, and run for office.  The only absolute in politics is the politicians absolute need to be elected.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline ShadowMover

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2005, 07:45:36 PM »
Quote from: ironglow
Murtha was a hero once,so was Benedict Arnold and Duke Cunningham..doing the right thing at one time does not mean you will ALWAYS do the right thing...

  Our troops did not lose the war in Vietnam..they didn't even lose any major fights...
  That war was NOT LOST..it and the troops were ABANDONED by congress..Old Teddy (the water safety expert) and his henchmen...when they voted to DEFUND the troops.
  No matter how well they fight, they can't do well without fuel, supplies and ammunition...

   Congress "cut and ran" and the same old cowards want to do the same thing again !!


That's mighty loose talk calling a decorated war hero a coward, and putting him in the same category as the traitor Benedict Arnold and an admitted thief like Cunningham. If anyone has a right to discuss what we should be doing it should be a man who has FOUGHT in a war for his country and was ELECTED to speak for his constituents. I'm not sure what the correct action in Iraq should be at this point, but I'm sure it's not turning on a man who has proved his right to speak on the subject. He has not gone behind anyone's back with his ideas, he has not flown to some foreign country, like Bill Clinton, and badmouthed our situation.


We have been either lied to or mislead about the reasons for this war, by a whole bunch of politicians and advisors, with Bush, G.W. being the guy in charge.  The question is where do we go from here? We need to make sure the area doesn't become a breeding zone for islamic terrorism, and to keep the oil flowing. Leaving too soon will cause this problem. Staying too long costs blood and gold.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
John Murtha
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2005, 01:32:04 AM »
Like the Colonies, Viet Nam was not and Iraq is not winnable. Our motives not withstanding, it is the logistics and the mindset.
GB could not sustain a military in the colonies without the colonies wanting GB. The same in Viet nam. Iraq, in my opinion, does not have a desire for democracy. There are groups, for sure, in this nation, who would want power. If/when we remove our presence they will ignore any constitution and return to their historic cultural values.
When will we learn that we cannot institute our will over another nation which does not accept our will.
Notice how long we stayed in Europe after WWII, and these are more akin to our culture than any in the Middle East.
Nothing new under the sun but things forgotten.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2005, 03:34:37 AM »
Shadow..

  Please point out to me where I called any of the three men I mentioned a coward...
   I believe you read something into my post that was not there !

  Please !...point it out to me...if you see it there somewhere...
   
  All three, Murtha, Benedict Arnold and Duke Cunningham  were "decorated heroes".
 
   Arnold was severely wounded twice, leading troops into close combat, both at Quebec and Saratoga,
Cunningham was an air ace in Vietnam...credited with shooting down the top enemy ace that any of our pilots faced there.
  I haven't heard what Murtha's decos were for, but evidently he's surely entitled to them.
   
  BTW: There are just as many "decorated heroes" that do not want to "cut and run"...

  Thousands of them over in Iraq right now...
    ..And George H. Bush is a "decorated war hero"..he doesn't seem to be arguing with his son about the situation..

  Arnold got caught up between cupid and greed..Cunningham with plain greed..
    Perhaps Murtha is just "round the bend" a bit...and his old marbles have worn some corners on them...maybe he's lost some !
 
    Nobody is immune from senility..

   Any veteran should know better than to offer ANY "aid & comfort" to the enemy...thereby encouraging further terrorist hope and attacks..

  Personally, I believe that anyone that uses such terms endangers our troops over there...and they have earned my enmity...especially since I have a "dog in this fight" !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ShadowMover

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2005, 07:01:26 AM »
Ironglow,
"Congress "cut and ran" and the same old COWARDS want to do the same thing again !!"  

That was your name on the post , wasn't it?
 
Arnold and Cunningham both committed overt acts that puts them in disgrace. To call a man a coward, senile, a traitor because he has a legitimate right to differ with you is very poor form, and doesn't help your argument.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2005, 12:03:28 PM »
Shadow;
   
   Perhaps you should read a bit closer...Our troops were defunded so we had to pull out of Vietnam in 1973.
  Rep. Murtha only came into office in 1974...
 
   I spoke of the cowardly congress including Teddy and his ilk..Now you can defend Teddy if you want...perhaps you would like to consider him "the hero of Dyke st. bridge"..but I doubt you would have many backers...
 
   Sorry Shadow..I called neither Arnold, Murtha or Cunningham cowards; they each had their moments of glory...

   ...But that same glory can become tarnished...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ShadowMover

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2005, 02:35:53 PM »
Quote from: ironglow
Shadow;
   
   Perhaps you should read a bit closer...Our troops were defunded so we had to pull out of Vietnam in 1973.
  Rep. Murtha only came into office in 1974...
 
   I spoke of the cowardly congress including Teddy and his ilk..Now you can defend Teddy if you want...perhaps you would like to consider him "the hero of Dyke st. bridge"..but I doubt you would have many backers...
 
   Sorry Shadow..I called neither Arnold, Murtha or Cunningham cowards; they each had their moments of glory...

   ...But that same glory can become tarnished...


Your innuendo was perfectly clear. When you mention a man's name in the same sentence referring to a known traitor and an admitted bribe taker, your intent is plain. You then try to dissemble  saying you were referring to Ted Kennedy, and trying to put me in the position of defending him. Please!!!  Don't change the subject or put words in my mouth. I also say you didn't call Arnold and Cunningham cowards. Your referral to cowards was "Congress "cut and ran" and the same old COWARDS want to do the same thing again !!",  What has that got to do with Arnold and Cunningham being cowards?
 Your whole argument is very unconvincing. I actually agree with you on not leaving before the job is done, but your arguments here don't do much to make your case, IMO.

I went to Murtha's website, and read his resolution. He basically said it's time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate, with our troops in reserve, 'over the horizon'.  I guess the question is; how much US blood and money are we willing to spend to make sure the Iraqis have a nice democracy?  The more cynical among us might wonder if that's the real 'mission'.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2005, 11:37:53 AM »
Shadow...
  You tell me..." I also say you didn't call Arnold or Cunningham cowards..."  You are correct upon that point...I said clearly that was was not calling Arnold, Murtha or Cunningham cowards...
   
   In fact, in the last post I sent before that one, I said they were all three, "decorated heroes"..
 
    Shadow...you've just got to get your specs fixed...LOL

  When I talked about the cowardly ones in congress that defunded the troops in Vietnam..I clearly said..Kennedy and his henchmen...
   
   It would have been somewhat difficult for Murtha to vote in Congress in 1973..seeing he was not elected to congress until 1974...yes; difficult indeed..

   As for what Murtha said about troop removal:
  Just as one evening I saw one politician say " Idid not have sex with that woman'  ...one day last week I saw Murtha stand before TV cameras and demand the troops be pulled out "NOW"...

   He may have thought better a bit later and amended his words for his website..
   But I don't need his website, when I saw and heard what he said live on TV...
 
   I still don't think he's a coward...a bit senile maybe..but not a coward....

    Maybe you specs got sat upon and are a bit bent or something...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2005, 01:29:36 PM »
If Murtha has a touch of senility, than the administration has a touch of dementia, especially considering the long-term goals for Iraq, in the “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq”.  Here is the link for the complete text:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html

For the sake of comparison, here is a link to Nixon’s speech on “Vietnamization” that he delivered on 11-3-1969

http://vietnam.vassar.edu/doc14.html

You might notice a similarity in the plans and goals, the histrionics may differ, but the goals look pretty similar, as does the probability of success.

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline Sheila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
John Murtha
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2005, 03:43:01 PM »
I'm not concerned about simlarities, he put Johnstown and its surrounding areas  in danger.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2005, 03:54:38 PM »
I think any logical person can agree that a descent person & yes even a
war hero can be swayed by greed or political ambitions. And no doubt,
being in a free country, at least for now everyone is entitled to their own opinions & can voice them, but we have a responsibility to not voice these
views in a situation (a willing Liberal press) that puts our boys at risk.
  That is the problem with these loser comments from Murtha, John Boy
Kerry, Coward Dean & the other Dems.
  An accomplished past does not give us a pass to make stupid comments
and especially as the Socialist Dems do every day & offer no logical
alternatives. Now the leftists Dems will have to add Sen. Lieberman to
their hate list.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2005, 04:46:21 PM »
In the words of George Santayana, the Spanish-born American philosopher:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2005, 01:49:44 PM »
Fe..
  I really wonder who originated that phrase..I have seen it credited to several folks ..running from Hegel to Marcus Aurelius..

   In any case, you have made a point with it:

  When Congress voted to "cut and run" from Vietnam..our credibility as a nation suffered for all those years since..and now, some of them want to repeat the same stupid mistake...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline fe352v8

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 700
  • Gender: Male
  • Evolve or become extinct
John Murtha
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2005, 09:10:49 PM »
Ironglow,

I agree with you, as former Secretary of State, General Colin Powell said, “you break it you own it”, we are obligated to leave the Iraqi people better off than before the invasion.  Whether it is Congress doing a “cut and run” or an administration redefining “victory”, I have a hard time envisioning a positive outcome that serves the strategic concerns of the US under the “plan for victory in Iraq”.

I can only hope that some course of action will emerge that the Iraqis themselves will embrace, instead of the rhetoric that is continually recycle for our domestic consumption.  While the original basis for this conflict, have thus far proven to be unfounded, freeing a people from tyranny and affording them a chance at self determination is a worth while endeavor in itsÂ’ own right.

I think Americans, even secular humanist, liberal, lefties, like me would find it hard to argue that giving a people, the opportunity of self-determination, is worth sacrifice.  However to maintain support the public needs to feel convinced that the administrations policies are capable of achieving this goal.  At present the majority of Americans do not feel this is the case.

I sincerely hope that the administration realizes this and address the matter in a forthright manner, instead of smearing their detractors.  Our troops, and in my case our children deserve better, than what we received.  For there to be success in Iraq we must be willing to commit on a scale similar to the Marshall Plan of post WWII.  The military can only do so much.  My biggest reservation is the failure of the administration to acknowledge the magnitude of the task at hand, and to continually claim that terrorism can be defeated by force of arms alone.

I remember vividly the results of Viet Nam, and I would prefer that my Marine, step-son, will be able to say he made a difference and that the sacrifices were worth it when he looks back at his war in 35 years, instead asking what was it all for, as I do when remembering my war.  Â“Staying the course” wonÂ’t get it done, and neither will “cut and run”.   I would hope that, in consideration of the lives lost and those still at risk, that our elected leaders could put aside their partisanship and egos and address the situation, however, I fear we have already reached a point beyond that.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2005, 02:01:04 AM »
FE..
   
    I think that we agree closer than we ever have on this point...

  Perhaps the common denominator between us is that you have a Marine step-son in Iraq and I have a Marine grandson in Iraq...

   Perhaps when we have a personal, direct interest in someone on the ground there it makes us more sensative...
   I don't know where the misunderstanding started but I recall when the president announced the "war on terror' shortly after 9/11, he made several points. Among these were:
 
     1. We must be in it for the "long haul".
     2. This battle will take us in many places around the globe.
     3. We won't always be popular for it.
     4. To other countries; "you're either with us or against us".
     5. If you harbor or aid the terrorists in any way, you  are the enemy.
     6. This war on terror includes economic measures.
     5. We must remain united to win.
     7. We must seek out and destroy terrorists wherever we can find them.
      8. It will not be "easy".

    These are some of the points I recall from that war on terror speech.
     I honestly believe the prez has tried to live up to just what he said.

   I know there was much anger by liberals over 2000 election...I can understand that. As a conservative I know how angry I was when the Florida sup court tried to gift the election to Al gore..
    Were mistakes, miscalculations made..absolutely ! ...But then every war/conflict we have ever been in has included much of same.
  As former military, I am sure you must agree that the enemy doesn't act/react according to our plans..it is HIS JOB to keep us off balance!
     Most of the time we win ...sometimes we have setbacks..just like every war we, or anyone else for that matter, have ever fought..

   Sometimes you get the bear; sometimes the bear gets you !

  By 9/11 though, the election was over...and our nation was in jeopardy.
  It is difficult for me to understand how any American can do what some politicians are doing. Just this past week I heard one politician say "we ar losing this war"..another called our sons, including yours and mine "terrorists"..FE.my grandson is no terrorist..and surely you do not feel that your stepson is one either. US Marines are courageous, patriotic fighters..not "terrorists"...
   In an E-mail  to my liberal brother, I referred to these two politicians as " despicable wretches "...and I do not regret saying so..
    When any American says such things Fe..it heartens and encourages our enemy and endangers our loved one who are in the " thick of the action" even more...
   What really galls me is that we know full well they are only saying such things in an effort to gain political advantage...thus, they are making these statements and knowing full well they are further endangering your stepson and my grandson...who are at this moment carrying the fight to the enemy !

   I have seen how outraged sports fans have gotten when their supposed "friends" sitting with them, start rooting for the opposing team ! How much more angry should you and I be when American politicians are, in effect, "rooting for" the terrorists that are trying to KILL our loved ones.
 
   Liberal anger at the election of 2000 I can understand...but rediness (by some of them) to sell out our country and courageous troops because of it...that I cannot understand..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Sheila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
John Murtha
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2005, 08:00:38 AM »
That  politician  needs a fist shoved down his or her throat.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
John Murtha
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2005, 12:14:33 PM »
When dissent gets to the point that it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, it is WRONG, no matter who does it. If the dumcraps would learn to keep their big mouths shut, back our president, and think of America for a change instead of themselves, this war would be over much, much, sooner. POWDERMAN.  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
John Murtha
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2005, 04:34:18 AM »
Quote from: powderman
When dissent gets to the point that it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, it is WRONG, no matter who does it. If the dumcraps would learn to keep their big mouths shut, back our president, and think of America for a change instead of themselves, this war would be over much, much, sooner. POWDERMAN.  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


PowDERMAN, you are so right.  In the name of "free speech", many politicians have danced mighty close to treason.  As a matter of fact I think some of them have crossed the line.  They are more concerned about their political party's standing than what is best for our country.  They certainly have no respect for our brave fighting men and the task they are about.
Swingem