.223/9mm

[dave in pa.]

Hi all,
  Does anyone have any info on a wildcat that is made from a shortened .223 (5.56 nato) and a 9mm/.357" bullet? Has it been done yet?
  My rudimentary measurements seem to say it is possible.
  I'm looking at this combo for a singleshot boltgun that I would like to build.
Thanks,
dave

[PA-Joe]

You may be thinking of the 7.62x25 which can be made using the 223 case.

[BS]

Never seen any info, but I was thinking about making the straight wall, but didn't like headspacing off the case mouth!

[Mikey]

dave in pa:  a number of years ago a number of guys were using 223 brass cut down for odd length european 9mms they couldn't get brass for.  Some that come to mind are the 9mm Steyr, the 9mm Bergmann/Bayard, the 9mm Mauser Export, the 9mm Largo.  Some of us even used that brass to make rimless 38 Super cases.  

Problem is that this is rifle brass and sometimes it is a bear to work with and load properly.  I once tried making 45 acp brass from 308 brass and then necking it down for a wildcat - pita, lemme tellya.  Much easier to work with pistol brass.  

About the longest 9mm case I know of is the 9mm Magnum - brass is available from any number of sources.  

Howsoever, ifin ya wants to build a wildcat and are thinking about lopping the shoulder and neck off a 223 for a longer straight cased 9mm you might get yourself something in the 351 Winchester Self-Loading range - a handy little brush cartridge.  

I sure would be interested to hear more about what action you plan on using.  I have been looking for a project like this but would prefer using the 7.62x25mm.  Seems like a 223 bolt gun would be a basis but I would want the availability of interchangeable barrels.  Mikey.

[Reed1911]

Seems like a 9mm Magnum or .357 Maximum may fit the bill for what you are wanting to build. Let us know a little more about what type of performance you are looking for.

[dave in pa.]

Thanks for the replys,
  I am building a single shot, bolt action toy and set these requirements for the project...

it must use an m16 bolt and barrel extension (I have these)
it must use a 9mm/.357 barrel blank (I have this)

  After taking measurements, I did not like the idea of opening up the bolt recess the 16 thousandths that the 9mm para case needed. That is when I thought of using the shortened .223 case (it fits the bolt) and opening it up to 9mm (it fits the barrel). This would have been a nice solution except that it would leave me with a round that could not be purchased over-the-counter if need be.
  I think my solution at this point is to chamber for 380 auto. The case head is 4 thou smaller than the .223 (it fits the bolt and extractor nicely), it's a straight walled case (easier to chamber), it fits the barrel blank, it's readily available at the local ammo counter, and if it does not work I can still rechamber to something bigger.
Thanks again, dave

[rodgervich]

Check out some reloading manuals for the .38 Super, it is pretty much what you describe. This was chambered in 1911's and similar auto pistols, not a common round but not rare either.

[lgm270]

Twenty five or so years ago, Jeff Cooper adapted a 1911 to a 9mm wildcat based on .223 brass shortened down and hot loaded. I don't remember the details but it was a pretty hot number.

[dave in pa.]

Thanks all,
  I've been informed by some ar15/m16 gurus that the bolts have been opened up far larger for some cases than I need to for the 9mm para case to fit.
  So, I'm going to go ahead with the 9mm para/luger cases and see how it goes. My whole intent here is to have something that I have built that will use common ammo in the event that nothing else is available, just a toy really.
Thanks again, dave