My .30-30 Win. is Dead

[.308]

Long live the .30-30 A.I.  :agree:   I did the rechamber this afternoon. Piece of cake.

Jason, I plan to fireform my first 20 cases tomorrow, weather permitting.  :rain:   I'll p/m you with the measurements as soon as possible.

[bladerunner]

308,glad ya got it...hope it shoots well for ya and is a complete success    

[.308]

Thanks blade.    I hope it shoots good as an AI, cause I never shot it as a Winny. WTH, I'll never know the difference will I?

[quickdtoo]

Found this on another forum, just so everyone can see the difference tween the AI cartridge and the original in the middle.....

[mt3030]

308:

You are wrong!! Your 30-30 is not dead, just in reserve status! You can still snap a cap on a 30-30 case anytime you want. Best of luck. Please keep us posted.

Now you have me thinking about this. I already have an extra 30-30 Handi and brass.

Wally

[.308]

308:
You are wrong!!  Wally

You're right.    I just wanted a catchy title so folks would notice.  :wink: If you decide to do it, I mean DIY, I would highly recommend the outfit I rented the reamer from: http://4-dproducts.com/index.htm
It fit my chamber like a glove, not play at all. Took my time since there was more metal to remove than on the .357 Max and .445 Super Mag rechambers. It seems to have went well, time will tell. :grin:  

I will post updates as soon as possible.

[.308]

Found this on another forum, just so everyone can see the difference tween the AI cartridge and the original

Tim, Which forum? If you don't mind?? It may be that there's some good info there on the AI's that may be of interest to myself and others. Thanks in advance.    Lamar

[Cottonwood]

And now for the CAD version

[quickdtoo]

Lamar, that would be the Beartooth Shooters forum...

http://www.shootersforum.com/index.htm?

[bladerunner]

I'm assuming(yes,i know that's dangerous   :-D ) that "fire forming" means to fire the 30-30 win brass in a 30-30 AI chamber to make it take that shape,right?

[.308]

Lamar, that would be the Beartooth Shooters forum...

Thank you sir, I'll check it out.

I'm assuming(yes,i know that's dangerous   :-D ) that "fire forming" means to fire the 30-30 win brass in a 30-30 AI chamber to make it take that shape,right?

Yep, that's right. It's about the same as any handloader does every time they shoot or fire their full length sized brass. Only this is a bit more extreme. Extreme is not the right adjective, but it's all I could think of at the moment. The term fire form means you form the case when you shoot the old round in the new chamber. In this case firing a .30-30 Winchester round in a .30-30 Ackley Improved chamber. Kinda like the term fire lapping, where you lap a barrel by 'firing/shooting' bullets that have abrasives embedded in their surface through a barrel.  

[hylander]

Can't wait for the range report  :-)

[myarmor]

Can't wait for the range report  :-)

Indeed. An odd job, to be sure, but interesting no doubt. Thanks for keeping us filled in .308
What loads will you be starting with, after fire forming?

[Haywire Haywood]

Looks like you get quite a bit of extra case capacity from the mod, how much more velocity do you expect to see from it?

Ian

[Norseman112]

Very Interesting project, let us know how she shoots.


John

[Chainsaw]

I have thought about converting my 30-30 NEF to AI. The only reason I have not done this is that I'm already getting 2600fps+ out of my standard handi with 130 grain Barnes and close to that with Hornady bullets. Accuracy is exceptional and I can't detect much case growth if any using a micrometer on the spent cases. When trying to attain 2700fps growth starts showing up in the case.

308 Good luck with your conversion. I would also be interested in the results. If you try Barnes 130 grain, I would be extremely interested............Chainsaw

[jason280]

Shootersforum.com has plenty of data on the .30-30 AI in lever guns and Handi rifles.  

It seems .308 has beat me to the project, but I am not far behind him.  Hopefully one of us will have some data soon, but I suspect it will be him first.  Good luck!

[.308]

myarmor, I plan to start with IMR 3031 and either Sierra or Hornady 150's. Probably start with about 31 gr. of the 3031 working toward 37 gr. (per Ackley).

H/H, my hope is to get an extra 200 fps, but I won't be disappointed with between 100 and 150 fps, that's with the 150 gr. bullets of course. Anyhow sommers close to 2600 fps for the 150's. We'll see.

Chainsaw, I aint' too worried about the cases growing, they shrink almost .015" during fire-forming.  :eek:   Just kidding, they really do shrink, but I know what you mean about them growing too.

Jason, you have a p/m with the measurements you asked about. I've been wanting to do this for about 3 years now. I quit waiting and did it. I only got to fireform 2 cases to measure because of all the rain, :rain:   but they look just like the ones in the pics above, no more body taper (well actually .003" of taper) and a nice sharp shoulder.   I'll try to get the rest of the cases fireformed and maybe take it to the range soon, weather permitting.

[safetysheriff]

.308'

greetings, salutations, and felicitations!

good to see another wildcatter/hotrodder at work on a Handi'.    

please, check to see that -- by using that new reamer -- that you do not have an excessive headspace condition for the use of original .30-30's you want to fire in that chamber.   it is something you may have been warned about, so i'm just offering a friendly 'heads-up'.    

it's possible to overdo it!

remember, safety first.

best regards,

ss'

[Major]

Way to go there .308.    I am sure you will not be disappointed in the .30-30AI conversion you have done.   I have read several articles through the years written by people that shoot the .30-30AI and never have I read where anyone was disappointed by it.   And I do mean NEVER.   The only discouraging words I have ever seen about the cartridge was from those that don’t really know what they are talking about and are just spouting off their own uneducated personal feelings.   I have talked to a couple of guys that were not sure about it until they shot the .30-30AI and now they too are believers.

Some of the things I like about it are that it’s parent cartridge, the .30-30 Winchester, is available everywhere and is one of the less expensive centerfire rounds to buy.   Then too, if you want new brass, it too is available everywhere and it too is reasonable low priced.   I also like the idea that the new chamber can be cut by hand, as you have just proved.

Like others here have said, I too will be waiting for that range report and some data.   Again, congratulations on your conversion.

PS: It is my understanding that reamers for rimmed cartridge conversions do not cut the rim recess but leave it the same depth as the parent cartridge.   Is that right .308?

[.308]

ss' and major, regarding the rim cut or lack of rim cut, I ran the reamer into the existing chamber until the rim cutter part of the reamer just 'kissed' the existing rim cut. I did not remove any metal from the existing rim cut whatsoever. :wink: From all I've read the AI version of the .30-30 will still headspace on the rim.

I plan to neck size only if possible, some say that can't be done in a Handi, we'll see.  

Time will tell, and I do mean time, all depending on the weather which has been miserable lately. The rain should be moving out in a day or so replaced you windy and cold. Not much good for the range, but at my first opportunity I'll be headed there and will report a.s.a.p.

Thank you for the kudos. :grin:   tom barthel did it ahead of me using the same tools and he says he very happy with his, I'll give him some of my kudos. BTW, how can it be that tom can be so happy with his if it can't be done??? :?  
Brings back thought of guys like Chris Columbus, hmmm.  

ss',
Safety first, for sure. BTW, WTH are felictations? Is that something B.A.D.  :oops:  You gotta know you're dealing with a dumb ol' country boy here!!!

[JPH45]

Exellent work 308, Keep us informed, Inquireing minds want to know.

[dodd3]

308 i used to have one on a tikka bolt action it was a .243 rebarreld to 30/30 ai. i used to get  the rims turn  down to fit the bolt face got sick of that and had it rechamberd to 308, but it was really good in 30/30 ai on the bolt action i could really get them going. try and get a copy of p o  ackleys book he list all the loads you wont in it they are safe in the 94 wini.  
bernie

[RemingtonMagnum]

I want to thank you for posting all the information and the pix of the Ackley Improved cartridge. I am well impressed and plan to go AI in another caliber of my rifles.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum

[.308]

Again JPH45 thanks for the applause, you're making me blush. Yes inquiring minds, and as you know "a mind is a terrible thing to waste". A little blast from the past there. :wink: I don't deserve any applause. I do applaud all the folks who were in there encouraging Jason to do his project. Maybe that's what drove me to do mine as quickly as I did. Heck I'd been thinking about it and talking to Major about it for over 2 years, no hurry to complete it 'til now. I suppose it's easier to be negative than to be positive. JPH45, that comment was in no way directed at you, you've always been a positive influence for me and I'm sure for others here. I appreciate it, sir.

dodd3, I have both volumes of Ackleys Handbooks. Thank you for your positive input, sir. :grin:

RemingtonMagnum, I have another reamer on the way for another project as we speak.  :grin:

Take care, Lamar...

[superhornet]

CDP--------good job, I think you will be happy with it.  I suspect that with a steady hand and a keen eye, at 100 yards, you should be able to keep a 5 shot group inside of a "Donut Hole".  Good luck to you and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.....

[.308]

Doggoneit superhornet I'm gonna get you one of these days for those 'doughnuts' cracks. Since I've retired I don't get the urge for doughnuts like I used to.    :grin:  Take care, and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, sir.

[Fred M]

308.

Fred M quoted.

I still maintain that the 30-30Ai is a good one, providing you have a good barrel.

.

The talk has been going on for two years now. No one ever said anything about the 30-30 AI, only talk, except on guy that had sleaving job done with a custom barrel, which turned out to be a great shooter.

The Handi is not an old ancient lever gun so you need not to worry about loads exceeding 35k. Like I said before the 30Aardvark (30-30 case without the rim) has been used in HBR rifles with 270 pressures. So no worry about the cases.

You will be able to get performance in a 22" barrel that will surprise a lot of folks." You are loaded for bear" with a 30-30AI Handi. It is a great caliber. I play with it on my QL program.

You will soon sort out your handloading, and find out what works best.
The Handi latch and your brass will be thankful if you don't load over 53K.

After you have fired a case a couple of times send me the overflow case volume in grains of water and I will provide you with some predictions of psi if you want it? I have a generic volume but that is not applicable.
I will not post these predictions. Since they could be misleading for other users. They are not loading recommendations

[jeff223]

BOY i should rechamber my 30-30 barrel.i havent shot it for some time now and this rechamber would bring some life into it again.i dont know what i would use it for because i live in the shotgun zone here in Michigan but it would be a nice range gun and maybe a yote killer.

[safetysheriff]

.308'

"felicitations" is french for 'congratulations'.    Fred, up north, might recognize its use by some Canadians.....

glad to hear you paid close attention to that rim when using that reamer.  even a rimmed cartridge chamber can be cut too long.    

good going, Professor!

let us know how your 'new' shooter works.

take care,
ss'