Author Topic: Man Making Bomb Threat Shot  (Read 3448 times)

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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2005, 01:39:42 PM »
The passengers did not deny the man said he had a bomb or confirm that he said it or did not say it, they said THEY did not hear such a statement.
The sir marshals did say they heard him say it and they were paying much more attention than others.
Fwed
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2005, 03:55:18 PM »
Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"

A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb.

At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."

McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says. "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html

---

U.S. Air marshalls.  A bunch of real heros...  :?

.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2005, 05:17:07 PM »
So if he had a bomb and blew up the plane because the marshals did nothing would they be your hero's then?  :evil:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2005, 05:43:22 PM »
JH45GUN. Nope, fwed would then be complaining that they didn't do their job. In my opinion, the officials over reacted AFTER the situation was over. After he was shot, the problem should have been over. POWDERMAN.  :(  :(  :(  :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2005, 05:47:14 PM »
More hypotheticals?

How about this one:

If the sky-cops decided to just blow away the first a-hole that gave them any trouble whatsoever, are they still your heros?

He didn't have a bomb.  He didn't blow up any airplane.  From all non-law enforcement evidence, he never said that he had a bomb, and he probably didn't threaten to blow up any airplane.

 :shock:
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2005, 12:50:35 AM »
We do not know, do we FWED.
Why would you believe one over the other at this point?
Why would you be inclined to make a judgement, at this point?
Why the rhetoric at this point other than for arguments sake?
What is the point of your defense at this point other than to just argue?
You baffle me more than inform me!
I guess it takes the boredom out of life, and, I can live with that.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Brett

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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2005, 05:43:37 AM »
Perhaps FWiedner would feel differently if he or his loved ones were on that airplane.  :roll:



I still think Jon said it best...

"My condolences to the deceased man's family, and to the marshals, there were no winners here, just 2 officers doing their duty with a second to make a decision. If the scenario is as reported they only had one choice, and it was the one they made, the risk was too great to make any other."

I seriously doubt that those Air Marshals went to work that morning (or any morning) thinking 'Gee.. I hope I get to blow someone away today.'
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2005, 07:25:40 AM »
There seems to be a real issue with focusing on what could have happened rather than what actually did happen.

It doesn't matter who was or wasn't on the plane as far as the list of potential victims, because when bad stuff happens innocent people always die.

Refering back to the guy with the crowbar, my actions would not be any different than the sky-cops.  I wouldn't care who the guy was or about any part of the long sad history of his worthless life.  I'd just render him inoperable, shortest path from point A to point B.  I'm sure that this is all the sky-cops did.  Point A to point B.

I suppose the issue is that the skycops had the time and resources to perform a much more thorough evaluation of the potential threat, and in that process they got it wrong, either by oversight or by choice.

An old leadership addage is that when the SHTF decisions need to be made.  Good or bad, do SOMETHING.

Even given the stress and immediacy of the situation, the actions and processes of all involved need to be reviewed and critiqued.  Some things could have been done better, some things could have gone worse.

There is always going to be a next time.  The actions and decisions made in the aftermath of this event will assist to guide the actions and decisions of the next event.

 :-)
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline stimpylu32

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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2005, 08:45:33 AM »
Having dealt with someone with Bi-Polar Disorder , My neighbor Josh across the street . I can say without a daut that in this same case i would have done the same thing .

He has been taken away many times for violent behaver , The last time he tried to kill his mother with an ax .

My oldest son tried to talk to him when he turned toward my son who was about 25 feet from him , At that point i fired one shot at josh's feet and told him that the next one would not miss . Had he been any closer to my son there would not have been a warning shot .

At this point the Police showed up , it took over a 1/2 hour to get him to drop the ax and get cuffs on him .

Josh is a good kid when he takes his meds. But with out he is Very Dangerous . He is 6/3 285 Way to big and strong to fight 1 on 1 .

The cops send 5 or 6 to get him most times.
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline swiftman

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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2005, 02:36:14 PM »
You are all trying to be Monday morining quarter backs. These men or women only had a second or two to make a decision of life or death for him or them and the  passengers.  Why would this woman let this man flly on an aircraft at high altitude without taking his meds or letting someone know he had a problem.  
There always going to be people blame the gov for anything they do right or wrong, can't be anyones fault but the US Gov. I  suspect most of you would have done the same as the officers if put in the same position.
It is better to be tried by 7 than carried by 6.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2005, 09:02:32 PM »
Uh make that  it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.  :lol:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2005, 02:12:35 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
There seems to be a real issue with focusing on what could have happened rather than what actually did happen.


That is all the 'Sky-Cops' had to work with. None of them could predict the future, not even what would happen in the next 10 seconds if he had gotten his hand into that bag.  


Quote from: FWiedner
I suppose the issue is that the skycops had the time and resources to perform a much more thorough evaluation of the potential threat, and in that process they got it wrong, either by oversight or by choice.


This statement puzzles me.  How do you figure that they had any more time or resources than you would have had in the man with the tire iron scenario?

Quote from: FWiedner
Even given the stress and immediacy of the situation, the actions and processes of all involved need to be reviewed and critiqued.  Some things could have been done better, some things could have gone worse.

There is always going to be a next time.  The actions and decisions made in the aftermath of this event will assist to guide the actions and decisions of the next event.


I'm sure that the event and actions of these men will be reviewed and scrutinized. And rightly so as you have said.  The trouble I have is that from the tone of your post it sounds like you are ready to convict these men of a crime.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2005, 04:08:37 AM »
Quote from: Brett
How do you figure that they had any more time or resources than you would have had in the man with the tire iron scenario?



Are you telling me that taxpayer dollars are being used to pay these people to be, and to remain, oblivious to their surroundings unless someone needs to killed in circumstances of blind and unreasoning panic?

These are people who are supposed to be on these aircraft to perform this specific job.

Are you suggesting that neither the Air Marshall Service or the airline that they may be flying upon at the time have any arrangement to share or access information about passengers?

Are you suggesting that while on these flights, that these officers are not scrutinizing passengers and their activities looking for potential threats to the safety of the aircraft, passengers, and crew?

If these guys aren't spending 100% of their time in the air checking people out and weighing their options, the extra money being spent on them and their program is being wasted.  We might as well arm the passengers.

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2005, 04:14:20 AM »
BRETT. You are wasting your time with fweidner. He trusts no one that  has any thing to do with any govt employee. I'm not real sure whether it is govt in general, or he is suffering from I HATE BUSHITIS, probably the latter.
I feel sorry for all of the families involved here, but still believe they did the right thing in stopping the guy from re entering that plane full of people. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2005, 06:12:58 AM »
Well Fwed none of us were there so kinda hard to judge and these days about the only thing I have faith in when it comes to the media is the funny pages in the paper!  :wink:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2005, 06:57:23 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner

Are you telling me that taxpayer dollars are being used to pay these people to be, and to remain, oblivious to their surroundings unless someone needs to killed in circumstances of blind and unreasoning panic?


From all accounts it sounds to me like they were well aware of a man acting erratically and making threats.  

Quote from: FWiedner

Are you suggesting that neither the Air Marshall Service or the airline that they may be flying upon at the time have any arrangement to share or access information about passengers?



Evidently neither the man, nor his wife, voluntarily divulged any information about his medical condition prior to them boarding the flight. Are you suggesting that the airlines require a copy of all passengers medical records when booking tickets?  If this couple had notified the airline of his condition before boarding the flight none of this probably ever would have happened.  

Quote from: FWiedner

Are you suggesting that while on these flights, that these officers are not scrutinizing passengers and their activities looking for potential threats to the safety of the aircraft, passengers, and crew?


Not at all. I think this is exactly what they did do. That is exactly why this guy got shot.

FW, You seem to me to be very anti government, always talking about how 'Big Brother' is too invasive in our private lives or trying to pull the wool over our eyes, etc., etc, but when the $#$# hits the fan you start crying "Why didn't the Government do something to stop it?!" or if they did do something it's always wrong in your eyes.  

Lifes situations are not always cut and dried, black & white all the time.  Sometimes you have to take what you've got and run with it.

In closing, I have to concur with Powderman, I'm wasting my time with you.    Have a nice day.
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Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2005, 10:46:42 AM »
I am constantly amazed by the hostility some express regarding questioning the actions of the authorities or our leaders, by equating it with ant-Americanism, or in some bizarre twist even heresy.

If you read the various positions being expressed during and leading up to the writing and adoption of our Constitution, it is quite clear that our founding fathers, the patriots, the revolutionary leaders were deeply divided over the issue of a strong central government.  They were quite aware that the Articles of Confederation was inadequate for sustaining our sovereignty, yet remained skeptical of a strong central government, thus the compromises of the Constitution.

I am not referring to the normal “checks and balances” of the three branches, but rather the very means of determining representation and leadership and the balance between the many and the few.  The bicameral legislature, the house where representation was and is proportional to state population, and the senate where representation is equal among states.  

The Electoral College, which to a great extent is based upon house representation and is a reflection of the populace, it is none the less skewed by the fact that it also accounts for senatorial seats, which are equally allocated among the states without regard to population, thus a single vote in a less populated state, like Alaska, carries more impact than a single vote in a more populated state, like Texas.  Alaska has a population of 626,932 and 3 electoral votes, while Texas has a population of 20,851,820 and 34 votes, thus an Alaskan has 0.000004785 electoral votes per person while a Texan has only 0.000001631 electoral votes for person.  So while Texas has almost 3.5 times the population and over 10 times the electoral votes of Alaska, a vote in Alaska is worth a bout 3 times that of one in Texas.

To further demonstrate this balance between majority and minority, one need only look at the original method of selecting the Vice president, he was the runner up and had run quite separate from the winner of the presidential election.

Even after the Constitution was written, there was strong resistance to it, thus we have the first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights, Again to protect the few from the many, whether the few be an individual person or a state.

  The Constitution was a compromise that provided a strong central government for the maintenance of our collective sovereignty, while also weakening the authority of a central government domestically to insure the supremacy of the individualÂ’s rights.

Those that would stifle the questioning of our leadership or debate, by demonizing their fellow citizens for dissenting are dishonoring the intentions of the founders and operating under the guise of a myth.  A healthy skepticism of government, and our leaders balanced by the need to preserve our independence, from foreign interference, were the two conflicting objectives, that the comprise of the Constitution allowed for, the subjugation of one objective to the other, will only diminish the independence of the nation as a whole and that of the individuals that constitute it.

Patriotism is not measured or defined by party affiliation, religious affiliation, or other superfluous and simplistic labels, but rather by affirmation of the rights and performance of the duties as proscribed under the foundational document of this nation, the Constitution.  By this measure, most are sorely lacking as exemplified by their intolerance and distain for those that would dissent from their point of view as provide for in the Constitution.

Was this a justified shooting, I do not know, that is why we have laws, and courts, to find the truth, as best as our human frailties will allow us to.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2005, 12:07:49 PM »
Quote from: Brett
FW, You seem to me to be very anti government, always talking about how 'Big Brother' is too invasive in our private lives or trying to pull the wool over our eyes, etc., etc, but when the $#$# hits the fan you start crying "Why didn't the Government do something to stop it?!" or if they did do something it's always wrong in your eyes.


Anti-government?  Me?

Just because I believe that the vast majority of people either involved with, employed by, or dependent upon the government at any level are wholly untrustworthy, doesn't make me anti-government.

It just means they I think that they deserve nothing less than the constant and unwavering scrutiny of honest men.

And yes, when government acts without the mandate of The People, without strict adherance to the principles of law laid down in the Constitution, without a single-view toward protecting the rights of The People, they are always wrong.

Please identify a situation where I cried about the government not doing something.   Seems a curious inconsistency.

 :D
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2005, 03:46:06 PM »
Quote from: FWiedner
[
Please identify a situation where I cried about the government not doing something.   Seems a curious inconsistency.
 :D


What were your comments regarding 9/11 or about hurricane Katrina?
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2005, 04:54:29 PM »
Quote from: Brett
Quote from: FWiedner
[
Please identify a situation where I cried about the government not doing something.   Seems a curious inconsistency.
 :D


What were your comments regarding 9/11 or about hurricane Katrina?


Uhhhhh, it was probably Bushs fault. I wanted to delete a previous post but couldn't find a way to do it.  Somebody censored a word in it and it makes it look like I said a bad, or curse word, I didn't. I'd like to know why such a simple thing was censored. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2005, 05:01:49 PM »
For 9/11 I'm pretty sure that I stated my opinion that the administration orchestrated and carried out the events of 9/11 in order to pass the Patriot Act, start a war, and step on civil liberties.

For Katrina, I said that the initial response by FEMA and the government in general was excellent given the circumstances, but that their actions to disarm gun-owners was an act of overt bureaucratic tyranny.

I believe that I've been fairly consistent in voicing these opinions.


 :-)
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2005, 06:32:54 PM »
Better watch out fwed there are boogie men behind every tree!  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :)  :)  :-D  :-D  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :roll:  :wink:
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Offline ShadowMover

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« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2005, 06:44:59 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
For 9/11 I'm pretty sure that I stated my opinion that the administration orchestrated and carried out the events of 9/11 in order to pass the Patriot Act, start a war, and step on civil liberties.

For Katrina, I said that the initial response by FEMA and the government in general was excellent given the circumstances, but that their actions to disarm gun-owners was an act of overt bureaucratic tyranny.

I believe that I've been fairly consistent in voicing these opinions.


 :-)

I think you're more right than wrong in your opinion.  If they didn't always have an active hand in doing it, they knew it was afoot and used it. You can look back to the start of WW2 and find the same kind of orchestrations, omissions, and surprises. FDR knew war was coming. He actively worked for it, prepared for it, and lied about it. The hands that guide our government and it's bureaucracies  are seldom on the front pages and never accountable, but they all point to the same goals of more centralized power, more public debt,and  less real democratic control. To those skeptics who will call it paranoid thinking, look at the histories of other countries, with murders, public lies, assassinations, and gigantic thefts, and then say it never happened here.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2005, 01:24:27 PM »
I dunno, I suppose the guy got what was coming, a logical end to the situation given the current state of justifiable paranoia in the US.

But, the incident should, as I'm sure it is, be investigated.
What we should be asking is would a private cirizen, you or me, be justified in a shooting like this. I personally would feel justified if he really said he had a bomb, or I saw a knife or percieved danger for myself or family. I would feel justified but I would likely end up in jail too. The way I see things we are all citizens, we all have the same rights wether we are construction workers, cops, military personel, air marshalls or gas station attendants. Anytime it becomes ok for an employee of the Gov or state to do something denied us its a good idea to look around carefully. I'm not saying they shouldn't have shot the guy but the same scrutiny should be applied as if you or I had pulled the trigger. Either that or we should be taken on our word if & when we need to use deadly force to stop a percieved threat.
The current trend of creating more armed police type services while discouraging individual firearms use or ownership doesn't seem to have the honest free citizen's best interest at heart.
Somebody mentioned letting civilians bring their guns on planes. Honestly I think it would be more effective. Why shouldn't we be allowed to have effective protection?  Ask yourself who's life is it to save anyway?

I dont necessarily buy Fweid's conspiracy theory but certainly resent that we should give up ANY freedom on account of 9/11. Homeland security stinks the same stink as gun control. Lets not punish the offenders but instead lets pass some feel good legislation that gets the public to think we care & whittle away at their rights at the same time. A hundred years ago our leaders would likely have told the men in the country to take up arms & be wary, now its keep quiet while we deminish your rights & call us if you see something suspicious. An armed civilian in each plane, more than one would'v been better but just one would likely have changed that September morning quite a bit. Maybe not but hey, we'll never know will we because the Gov't has already taken care of that.

I feel both for this mans family & the air marshalls both.  :(
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Offline Patriot_1776

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« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2005, 02:47:04 PM »
Powderman wrote:

Quote
I wanted to delete a previous post but couldn't find a way to do it.


When you go to the post list inside a thread, there should be three boxes in the far and upper right corner of the blue outline on your posts only (since you're not a moderator).  The boxes say "Quote", "Edit", and the third is a box with an "X" in it.  Clicking the box with an "X" will delete the post, with your final confirmation of course.  I've deleted posts in this manner a few times, so it works.  :lol:


It seems this thread is going a little off topic, and getting nowhere.  The facts have been stated, and we all have our opinions on how it has/should have been handled.  I recommend to just let it pass, and continue on with life.  Personally, I find the FAMs performed according to how they were trained, with what happened at that time, and with what information they were presented with.  As it turned out, this man's problem contributed to the cause of his own death.  But it does/should not give way to the notion that every person who, upon making a bomb threat especially, is to be considered lightly, as a bluff, or as mentally ill.  UNLESS, a family member or otherwise states with proper declaration that such a condition exists in such a person.  Even then, it must be handled with the utmost caution on part of the FAMs.  As well too, the wife should not have worried about going back for their bags on board when she realized he was rushing off the plane in a manner that seemed to attract way too much attention.  One thing to bear in mind after this, is terrorists can and will resort to anything in an effort to kill innocent people.  I'm not implying that is what this couple were; but nothing prevents the terrorists from reading the papers, and getting ideas from stuff like this.  These are new situations the FAMs might have to consider next time they are faced with the decision of whether or not to pull the trigger.

There were probably several things everyone could have done different to alot a different outcome; but I feel the FAMs are getting a bum rap in this case.

:D
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Online Graybeard

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« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2005, 06:04:22 PM »
For what it's worth I happen to agree with Fred on this one. So far all evidence presented seems to point to a gross misuse of power for no good reason. If someone other than them could back up their story about the bomb comment it might change my mind but all stories heard so far say the word bomb wasn't used.

It bothers me greatly that the government is pushing as hard as they are these days. It bothers me even more how few people seem to care. But then I've been publicly telling you folks for years this was coming and the very things I warned of are happening daily now.


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Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2005, 04:14:56 AM »
And it's only going to get worse. The dumbing down of America increases with each passing day. Look no farther than kindergarten or 1st grade to what they are conditioning kids to do and teaching them at an early age. I ask you to stop and think of the rights you have lost over the last 10 years. The constitution is constantly under attack. Look at the abuse of power at Waco, Ruby Ridge, Gorden Call(sp). As long as we have power hungry polititions and others our freedoms are under attack everyday. :eek:
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Offline DirtyHarry

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« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2005, 05:11:11 PM »
I think that anytime lethal force is used by anyone it should be scrutinized, but on the same token who's responsibility is it to make sure someone who is psychotic takes their med's before boarding a passenger plane?
My position on this is that the man put himself in this position by first knowing that he had a mental problem and secondly not taking his med's (for whatever reason) to prevent an episode, especially on a passenger jet when he could easily be mistaken for someone of middle eastern decent.

Did the air marshalls over react? Maybe
Did the victim put himself in this position by his own negligence? Most Definitely
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Online Graybeard

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« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2005, 05:51:56 PM »
Quote
Uhhhhh, it was probably Bushs fault. I wanted to delete a previous post but couldn't find a way to do it. Somebody censored a word in it and it makes it look like I said a bad, or curse word, I didn't. I'd like to know why such a simple thing was censored. POWDERMAN.


Can't say unless you want to share with me what was posted. Do it via PM or e-mail. If it's being censored by the censor program you might want to do it via e-mail or it will just be censored out so I still won't know what you wrote.

BUT if it got canned thru that program it definitely was a word I'd NOT want showing on this site. There are no words listed in the censor program that I will allow to be posted. So e-mail it to me so I can see it and I can most likely explain it to you.


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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2005, 07:31:47 PM »
Quote from: Nightrain52
And it's only going to get worse. The dumbing down of America increases with each passing day. Look no farther than kindergarten or 1st grade to what they are conditioning kids to do and teaching them at an early age. I ask you to stop and think of the rights you have lost over the last 10 years. The constitution is constantly under attack. Look at the abuse of power at Waco, Ruby Ridge, Gorden Call(sp). As long as we have power hungry polititions and others our freedoms are under attack everyday. :eek:


The DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA you got that right nightrain! Just look at TV how any one can watch that reality tv crap and call it entertaining or reality is beyond me!  :x
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.