Author Topic: Hard Chambering Remington 700 bdl (Read 2031 times)

kenscot · « **on:** December 13, 2005, 02:30:19 PM »

My rifle chambers hard every few rounds with resized once fired brass. I have checked the case length, bought new dies and set the dies to full length resize just like all my others. The once fired brass was fired in my rifle, It does it with both remington and winchester brass. Being a remington the extractor does not pickup the rim until it fully chambers. This is where I am beginnning to believe the problem lies. I can chamber one piece of brass ten times without problem and then it will happen and consequently it will chamber hard the first time and then be fine for several more chamberings before it happens again. Any ideas?

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:37:15 PM »

Sounds like you're on the right track. Make sure that extractor is the right shape and isn't bent so as to be hanging up. It's gotta jump the rim properly every time, but drop in to grab for extraction.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2005, 07:19:38 PM »

I'll vote for a binding extractor. Check for metal shavings, and general crud. I use a dental pick like instrument and a toothbrush with SS bristles. My daughters 700 custom did that. It eventually refused to chamber a round. I took it home and cleaned it and all was well. That was 4-5 years ago and no more problems. It was nearly new then. Is this a new rifle? I noticed this thread on the gunsmith thread(you doubled it but I deleated one of them) but thought I'd answer it there..then here. This is a copy.

kenscot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:57:10 AM »

Yes the rifle is fairly new. I only have a coule hundred rounds through it. I have noticed brass shavings inside the bolt face and have cleaned them out when I noticed them but still have the problem

gunnut69 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2005, 06:55:18 PM »

Take a case that is hard to close on and note where the skinned up spots are. Reinsert the case with the skinned up spots 180 degrees from the original position. If the problems proves positionsal you may have a crooked boltface or chamber. If not it may just be a poorly shaped extractor or one that has been damaged.. Replacement may be the only repair..

kenscot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:20:08 PM »

I apreciate the time you have taken to help with my problem. I do question the idea of the crooked chamber or bolt face as the problem does not come up with factoy ammo or brand new case . one other thing I noticed. On occasions where it has been really hard to chamber I have stopped applying pressure in an attempt to extract the case but the exractor had not picked up the case leading me to believe that the extractor is not able to slip over the rim andthat is where the brass is being shaved. What do you think?

kenscot · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2005, 03:03:51 PM »

Well I replaced the extractor and still have the same problem :x I just can't understand why it chambers factory ammo no problem but won't full length resized cases

gunnut69 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2005, 07:39:26 PM »

KenS
Did you check the case head for orientation? Measure some unfired factory cases and some of your resized ones and you'll find the sizing process does not extend all the way to the casehead..

kenscot · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2005, 01:07:12 AM »

gunnut
I am not sure how to check for case head orientation. If it should turn out to be a crooked bolt face or chamber what is my recourse? I am sure remington will tell me it is with in their tolerances :x Am I better off ridding myself of this rifle? It would be a shame as it fits me well. I know what you are talking about the resized cases. Would small base dies help? I would hate to be working the brass that much.
Ken

gunnut69 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2005, 08:05:25 PM »

THis is truly beginning to sound like an out of square bolt face. This is because the factory ammo always works, (it's new and the case heads are square to the case centerline) but the fired and resized cases sometimes don''t. As a case fires it expands to fill the chamber and match the bolt face exactly. If the bolt face is out of square, the case head will be out of square also. Resizing alters the radian dimensions of the case and resets the should, (if needed) but has not effect of the case head's orientation. Check by spinning a fired case in a pair of 'v' blocks with a stop at the case mouth. The case heads squareness of lack of it is measured by using a dial indicator against the case head as it is turned. Any signisficant wobble is cause for trepidation..

longgun · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2005, 04:59:44 AM »

I've done a lot of reloading in my years and have encountered some hard bolt closings on some of my rifles. Usually I have found that true full length resizing usually takes care of any hard bolt closings that I encounter. Once I had a shell holder that was too thick and would not let the sizing die go down as for as it need to go and was not re-sizing the bulge at the rear of the brass.

I have also found that if I reloaded "hot" loads the brass would sometimes stretch and made for hard closing of the bolt, even after full length re-sizing. Since you are only having hard closings sometimes ( say 1 out of 10 times), I really suspect that your reloading procedures are what is giving you a problem. I think that if you are having gun problems is should show up every time. mechanical problems are not like electronic problems that sometimes work and sometimes won't. Mechanical stuff either works or it doesn't work, which makes me think that you have problems with your brass. Just my thoughts . But as you know, it is difficult to fix someone's problems via " long distance". Don

gunnut69 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:24:09 AM »

Did you try rechambering fired factory cases? Try rechambering them and then rotate the case in the chamber at the time of insertion. If the bolt face is out of square the high side will cause chambering problems only when it presents at a certain attitude to the extractor.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:38:51 AM »

Do you have a stoney point headspace gage? I have a SS barrel that is cut very small. I had to adjust my dies to push the shoulders back a little more than normal. I.E. Normally resized brass had a longer headspace length then a fired round. Had to sand down the case holder just a little. I have a 300 WSM that I had to do the same thing on.

kenscot · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2005, 01:33:17 PM »

Gunnut,
I do not have the V blocks that you suggest that I spin the cases in. I have noticed that the resized cases are hard to chamber when they go in from the same position( orientation I guess) If the bolt face is out of square is there any way to remedy this condition? Does rebarreling work?

gunnut69 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2005, 07:34:38 PM »

Take it to a good smith. He can fix the problem. It may require pulling the barrel and adjusting the headspace but it can be fixed. If the bolt face is out of square with the axis of the action, it can be squared up and the headspace set. If the chamber is the culprit it may require rebarreling.

STexhunter · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2005, 03:48:25 AM »

While it could be what some of the other guys are saying, I tend to agree with longun. I have a Remingtion with a Douglas barrel on it, the bolt face was squared with the chamber etc. and I have a few rounds that are hard to chamber (possibly a tight/short chamber). I found that I have to take out any slack in the resizing by setting the die to cam over hard. The rounds then chamber with a few still a little hard, but much better. I suspect a resizing die that is a little long. I have known some to have to shorten the die a couple of thousandths. Also watch the lenght on brass after resizing and trim accordlingly. Just my thoughts

kenscot · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2005, 01:31:12 AM »

What kind of job does squaring up the bolt face entail not to many true gunsmiths in this area. I just want to know when I question a few that I am not being fed aline of BS

gunnut69 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2005, 06:31:24 AM »

Most often bolt faces are squared to the centerline of the action. If the chamber was cut concentric to the outside of the barrel and the bore is well centered the face will be square with the chamber. This is very often not the case. Bores are more often crooked than straight and a little runout is the norm when cutting a chamber. There are several ways to square a boltface. Usually the sequence is, set action in lathe and running true, and face the receiver ring square to action centerline. Single point cut the receiver threads to square them with the centerline of the action. Face lug abutments and locking lugs close to full contact and cut the bolt face square to the rear of the locking lugs. This is sometimes accomplished with the bolt in the action and tensioned to the rear. A guide screwed into the action is used to apply the pressure to the already full contact locking lugs and and the guide holds a carbide cutter against the bolt face. It can also be done by indicating the bolt square in a lathe using the rear of the lugs to indicate from. If the processes are done in the correct sequence the bolt face will be square to the threads and the front of the receiver ring. Usually a new locking lug will be used as the stock ones are almost never flat and square... The the squareness of the boltface to the chamber is dependant on the care used in chambering the barrel... I have seen some really bad barrels come from the manufacturers. If the barrel is OK it can be checked and re-installed. If the headspace has changed it may require a setup in the lathe that it can be set back a thread and the chamber re-cut to set the headspace back to 'go'. There are those that take shortcuts such as just removing the barrel and facing the bolt with a guide and cutter. If the lugs are making good contact and the threads are square to the action and the front of the action ring is square to the threads ETC ETC./.. Thats a LOT of ifs!! While it's mostly common sense and good machine work it will take some time. Some steps may be skipped if measurements show they are not needed.. As always fixing a problem is more trouble than doing it right from the start..

kenscot · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2005, 08:34:07 AM »

gn,
I sincerely appreciate the time you have put into anwsering my posts. It is pretty obvious you are are a true gunsmith. This is starting to sound like a fairly expensive proposition. One that I'm not sure is worth it concidering I have only found one load that the the gun will shoot MOA. I am really starting to lean towards calling it lemon, dumping it and picking up another. Just a shame they are no longer making the BDL any longer. I just prefer the fit over the CDL

longgun · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2005, 04:00:55 PM »

Ken, I will make one more post here. This will give you a simple test to see if your bolt face is actually not perpendicular to the chamber or if the bolt face is not flat. Would be best to use a v-block which you said you don't have or a 1-2-3- block which you probably don't have either. But try this little test and it will give you some indication what you have. On a flat surface like your kitchen cabinet top, take a can of Coke or beans or what ever. Then take the empty hull and set it flat on the counter top next to the can and rotate the brass 360 degrees with your finger tips while keeping the head flat against the counter top. If the neck of the brass turns in an eccentric circle you have the problems that gunnut indicated. If the brass does not turn eccentric then you have a different problem. Not very scientific but it should work, I think......... Don

giturgun · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2005, 05:23:55 AM »

Probably is not this , but it sneaked in on me once and took some time to find it . Simple problem was primer seating depth, for some reason my 22-250 rem 700 started to have tight cases and it took some time to finally determine the primers on some were not seated deep enough , they had a shinney mark on the face of the primer, I fixed the problem by seating the primers and rotating the brass 180 and reseating, I believe it may have been a tolerance thing with the shell holder I was using at the time. Probably not the problem , but much cheaper than gunsmith work

kenscot · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2005, 11:22:40 AM »

Well I just got off the phone with the head guy in repairs at remington. I was told to send it back for a chamber cast so we will see! I hope they will fix it . The damn thing has grown on me.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2005, 07:56:21 PM »

Be dure and let us know how this comes out. Remington quality control has certainly slipped as have others. Even my beloved Winchester has made a few lemons.. I wasn't aware that Remington had dropped the BDL I thought the CDL was just added..

gunnut69 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2005, 07:56:28 PM »

kenscot · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2006, 12:31:53 PM »

Well I called remington today and was told that everything checkout as spec but they would rebarrel the rifle anyway so we shall see. I will dump my old brass and start out fresh. Perhaps this barrel will be able to shoot bullets over 85 gr better than the old one