Author Topic: Anti patriot act blocked in the Senate (Read 1489 times)

victorcharlie · « **on:** December 16, 2005, 09:33:42 AM »

Here's the latest.....

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-16T175338Z_01_SIB572032_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-PATRIOT.xml&rpc=22

magooch · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2005, 04:37:12 AM »

Well, according to the treasonous Dumbycrats and a handfull of RINOs, there is no longer any threat from terrorists and besides, it's all President Bush's fault anyway. We have to be sure that we don't step on any terrorist's rights--you know.

Leverdude · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2005, 09:07:36 AM »

They should throw the whole thing out. Or at least change the name. Whats patriotic about degrading our constitutional rights anyway?
Maybe they should call it the gestapo act. :shock:

fe352v8 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2005, 11:04:09 AM »

My fellow Americans

As I know you are with us, in this war on terror, and we do know, because we have listened in on your phone calls and have your SSN, date of birth, bank account and credit card numbers with corresponding PIN numbers, and any other access codes you have, and a list of your safety deposit boxes. We have also read your mail before forwarding it to the intended recipient and opened yours before forwarding it to you. In addition we have dropped by while you were not home, and took a look around, your place, and we have been checking with your public library, to see what you have been reading, and we have checked with your ISP to see what web sites you have visited, as well as, to read your e-mail.

As any real American knows you can trust your government. After all when was the last time anyone was mistakenly arrested, imprisoned, executed, convicted, or shot by an agent of a federal, state or local government.

I am sure youÂ’ve heard, those terrorist sympathizers, saying this is some how illegal or infringes upon your Constitutional rights, but remember they are the ones helping the terrorist kill our troops and endangering your freedom, and whose a better judge of whatÂ’s legal and whatÂ’s not, terrorist sympathizers or your government. Besides we have no problems with you keeping your guns, which is all the proof anyone should need, to see that we are not interested in curtailing your freedom. After all what chance would there be of you losing your freedom when you have your trusty AR-15, the one you purchased on June 22, 2001, serial number 21398706, or your S&W model 66, serial number 672154, that you purchased on march 3, 1999, and we only have a few Abrams, F-22 Raptors, and Apaches, yes sir you have all the freedom you need right there in your gun safe, so relax, after all an armed citizenry is a free citizenry.

Remember to defend your rights requires trusting us to disregard someone elseÂ’s. ItÂ’s just paranoid to think we would violate yours.

Thanks for your cooperation, and remember if you see some one who disagrees with your governmentÂ’s position, call us toll free at 1-800-FREE-DUMB, weÂ’ll take care of the unpatriotic @$*$#, for questioning us.

GW Bush

ShadowMover · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2005, 11:59:26 AM »

Well said, fe352v8.
I don't understand how someone who believes in freedom to be so intent on giving away the very rights so carefully spelled out in our Bill Of Rights. Who is so afraid of 'terrorism' that they surrender their rights? I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody personally who has been a victim of terrorism, but I sure know a few people who have had their rights stepped on. I think I'll take the risk of a little terrorism over the guarantees of the lying and thieving politicos and bureaucrats. We are more likely to be killed in a car wreck than any terrorist event, yet who wants to give up cars? When Ben Franklin said those who surrender freedom for security deserve neither he was talking about just this kind of situation.

YES, just this kind of situation. Think about it for a minute. Once they ratchet down the freedom, it won't ever get loosened up again. It's not a temporary measure. Then they will start on the next 'risk'.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2005, 02:56:40 PM »

As bad as I hate to say it I will have to side with the Democrats on this one.How many more of our rights are we willing to give up. Ya they say the power to spy on us will not be abused. BS When have you ever known our government not to abuse the power it was given. They can tell us more about ourselves than we know about ourselves. :?

magooch · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:39:31 AM »

We're all prudent to be leary of our government having too much unfettered power to look over our shoulders, but I try to keep things in perspective. I have always believed that no matter how many civil rights are guaranteed, or how many restrictions are imposed on authorities to nose around in our business there will be abuses. That's reality.

What is also reality is how fast people are going to blame the government for not being more intrusive when it comes to our security and safety when the first city in this country gets nuked. It is not a question of if it will happen, it's only a question of when it will happen.

Leverdude · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2005, 09:48:16 AM »

Your Right Magooch.
Theyre will always be people blaming the Gov't for whatever problem happens to befall us at that moment. Aint nuthing gonna change that. Its also real likely, as you said that someday they will manage another huge act of terrorism here, & there aint likely much we can do about that either. It stinks for a Gov't to be powerless like they are in both these cases but they are, at least ours is.
If the only way our Gov't can fend off terrorism is by trashing our rights then they can do nothing. Theres things I cant protect my family from all the time, Tho I'd like to I cant be there every second of every day & night. Am I responsible for their saftey? Sure I am' to the extent I can be, above that, if something happens I know I did my best. When someone says I shoulda done this or that I'll just have to deal with it & so should the Gov't.
Somebody long dead said something like ----- "Those who are willing to give up freedom for security aint getting neither". & thats something I believe embodies where America is at, we're at a crossroads & our decisions will effect generations to come. So whats it gonna be?
I'll pick freedom everytime myself. If thousands of Muslim mujahadeen were flocking across the border I'd feel the same way, In no way can Washington be permitted to weaken the American people in the name of freedom.
But of course thats just MHO.

ShadowMover · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:22:18 PM »

Magooch,
So let me get this right. You believe that the government will abuse it's powers and step over the line, 'because it's reality', and you're alright with that?

The government managed to keep the nuclear armed Soviet Union at bay for 50 years without doing what it's doing now; but you we should throw the Bill of Rights in the bonfire to keep us a little safer. I'm not seeing it your way. If the danger is so great why aren't we rounding up all the threats and shipping them back to point of origin? We have millions of illegals here, but the big push is illegal wiretaps and trashing my rights. This is nothing but a power grab. Can you smell the Reichstag burning?

ShadowMover · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2005, 09:16:16 PM »

I meant to add this, but it can stand all by itself:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

victorcharlie · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2005, 01:59:01 PM »

Quote from: ShadowMover

Magooch,
So let me get this right. You believe that the government will abuse it's powers and step over the line, 'because it's reality', and you're alright with that?

The government managed to keep the nuclear armed Soviet Union at bay for 50 years without doing what it's doing now; but you we should throw the Bill of Rights in the bonfire to keep us a little safer. I'm not seeing it your way. If the danger is so great why aren't we rounding up all the threats and shipping them back to point of origin? We have millions of illegals here, but the big push is illegal wiretaps and trashing my rights. This is nothing but a power grab. Can you smell the Reichstag burning?

You are so right ShadowMover. I've watched my rights eroded little by little over my life time. My read on the constitution and the founding fathers is that if any thing, we should error in favor of the people's individual rights and liberties.

We have millions of illegals here, but the big push is illegal wiretaps and trashing my rights. This is nothing but a power grab.

You sure hit the nail on the head!

ironglow · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2006, 02:56:58 AM »

Again; the only real rights being jeopardized are the rights of Al Queda agents to plan destruction here in the US..

Now; thanks to the attitude of certain Libs..the world has created a new category...

"Dingy Harry" Reid actually bragged how he and his henchmen had destroyed this program, designed to protect the citizens of this country !!

Previously, we had the "volunteer suicide bomber", now in their brilliant "Liberal logic" ..they have created the "volunteer suicide target"...LOL

Unbridled hatred since the election of 2000 sure can make some folks say, and do... STUPID things..

FWiedner · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2006, 04:32:20 AM »

The Patriot Act will eventually lead to jackbooted government thugs kicking down doors in the dark of night, taking citizens and property into custody without justifiable cause, and inevitably, to the death of innocent people.

Then, all of those who think that it's OK for a government to register, track, and eavesdrop on it's citizens will be able to see all of their dreams come true.

:x

ironglow · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:04:02 PM »

Yeah FW...And Dorothy and Toto going to Kansas... endangers the civil rights of Nebraskans !!!

ShadowMover · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2006, 03:22:31 PM »

Ironglow, and friends, if you think the government will only use the powers it thinks it's been granted against terrorists, you are, and let me try to be polite here, misguided. They have already used them against local corrupt politicians here in Vegas. Yes, I'm sure we don't need more corruption, but the point is that the government has no sense of self limitation. They will do anything they can get away with. Those same corrupt politicians are the one who will be using the new laws they, and you, want. We the citizens and courts have to supply the !NO!, and draw the line. I'm sure every item on the Bill Of Rights could be made invalid by citing some terrible situation or criminal that used the right to a bad end. The point is these laws will be misused and misused against people like you. As the old phrase goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. This type of law is the CLASSIC argument for seizing power. I'd rather put up with the losses from terrorists than surrender to totalitarianism. If we lost a WTC per month we still wouldn't equal those lost to traffic accidents and we will never equal the numbers lost to Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, or the dozens of other murderers who seized power and threw out the laws to "protect their people". It may be just a coincidence that these people seized power to protect, but ended up killing tens of millions, but I don't buy it. We can save our country without destroying it.

ironglow · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2006, 05:54:08 PM »

shadowmover and friends;
All those Patriot Act laws have "sunset" laws attached to them, so if any administration were to misuse them ..the congress could simply shut them down.

The Democrats are simply playing politics with our national safety.

They whine, throw fits and jabber about the Patriot Act (that most of them voted for) but don't give any verifiable examples of abuse.

They did have one person complain of misuse, but on further investigation, he was found to be a lying Democrat operative...so what else is new ?...LOL

powderman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:39:12 AM »

I don't care if we bug every mosque in the world, it would be a good idea. They can monitor all of the muslims homes, I don't care. They can profile all they want, I don't care. They can put bugs in the muslims bedrooms, I don't care. If the truth were made public, I'd bet that these things have been done to Americans without all of the publicity for many, many, years. A former friend of mine retired 15 years ago from CID. He said that he had spied on American folks for 30 years, and had done lots of things in the name of security that he was not proud of. He never gave any details, but had evidently spied on folks that would surprise everyone.
I remember reading in life magazine many years ago that when soviet premier kruschev visited our country that the cia bugged his rooms, even had his toilet diverted so they could test his excrement for signs that he might be in bad health.
None of this is new guys, it's just made more public. It's hard to tell how many attacks have been prevented by spying, or other covert activity. The Godless ones have no rules, no conscience, we have to react to that in a firm manner. POWDERMAN. :x :x :x :x :x :x

fe352v8 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:17:18 PM »

The oath to be taken by the president on first entering office is specified in Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

The oath taken by all others on first entering office is specified in Title 5 USC, Subpart B, Chapter 33, Subchapter II (2), paragraph 3331

An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath:

Â“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.Â” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

Over a million Americans have died in keeping their oath. To ignore and compromise the Constitution would be to dishonor, their sacrifice, along with the other 40 million, or so, that have also served.

The fear of death is irrational, unlike the fear of diminishing rights. Death is inevitable and unavoidable it can only be delayed. The loss of rights is not inevitable and is avoidable; it is a matter of courage.

I prefer the risks and life that comes from abiding by the rights enumerated in the Constitution compared to the security and the existence, that some would have you believe, can be had by discarding your Constitutionally protected rights.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2006, 04:35:32 PM »

Well said fe352v8 and TM7. It sickens me to see the downward spiral our country has been in the last 40 years. :eek:

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2006, 04:38:39 PM »

Sorry-double post

powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2006, 04:57:14 PM »

We've been going downhill since 1963, when our nation shut God out of our daily lives. Since then we've had children raised in Godless homes, raised by Godless parents, educated in Godless schools, been judged in a Godless judicial system, and had laws made by Godless congress critters and judges. Then there are folks who wonder why the libbies got this way. POWDERMAN. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

powderman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:12:13 AM »

TM7. I call it a war because we were attacked by a Godless group of subhuman scum that has only one purpose in life. They live, to kill. They started it, not us. They will stop at nothing to achieve their goal, the total anhiliation of every man, woman, and child, that will not follow their former warlord mohamed. These people teach bigotry, hatred, and murder to their children from birth. By the time these kids get to be teenagers, maybe even younger, they have been so thoroughly indoctrinated with hatred and killing that they will probably never be of any use to any kind of a civilized society. It is a war they declared on us, and all other nations that still don't believe in their mohamed. I see islam as a false religion, more like a cult. I believe their mohamed was a false prophet. They are no more than satans disciples, and do his work with relish. Their mohamed was famous for beheading people while their families watched, then raping their wives the same day. He took a bride when she was 6 years old, but kindly waited til she reached the ripe old age of 9 to consumate his marriage. Must have been real exciting to rape a 9 year old child, probably lots of fun for her too.
Yes, I believe we are at war with an entire way of life. Better to fight em over there, than here. It's only a matter of time til they get a nuclear bomb, and they will not hesitate to use it. I firmly believe that if it were not for the tough attitude president Bush has taken that we would have been hit several times more already. If gore were president he would still be appologizing to the Godless ones for building the WTC in the way of their stolen planes. You bet it's a war. I'm thankful we have a president who has the guts to fight them. POWDERMAN. :x :x :x :x :x :x