Author Topic: Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling  (Read 1360 times)

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Offline Lawdog

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Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2005, 10:20:28 AM »
Senator Stevens has for twenty years been trying to undo what that peanut farmer did.  The country needs that oil, will need it bad in the not too distant future.  We are NOW at the mercey of the muslium countries.  At any minute they can turn off the spigot and we will not be able to do anything about it.  Our military runs on oil, and if they decide to cut us off, our military is dead in the water.  The bases in Alaska will be supplied, and some in the south near the coast, but what about the rest?  Industry in this country will stop.  A lot of the power in the country comes from oil or natural gas.  Natural gas is in short supply, and if the supply of oil is interupted, there won't be enough power to go around.  No power, this country will be dead in the water too.  The country would not be able to defend itself.  Then what?
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Offline PA-Joe

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2005, 10:28:46 AM »
There are over 2 million acres of oil rich land all around that refuge. They don't have to drill there. They can go 5 mile away and have the same access to the oil.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2005, 04:31:42 PM »
PA-Joe:  Have you looked at a map of ANWR?  South the Brooks Range, can't drill there.  East Canada, can't drill there.  North the Beaufort Sea, can't drill there.  West Prudhoe Bay already drilled there.  Plus the oil is under ANWR.  The only way to get it is to drill there.  I don't know where these other two million acres are you are referring to but if oil was there I think we would be trying to drill there.  But the environmentalist would tell the same lies they tell about ANWR to stop the drilling therte as well.  They don't want any drilling in Alaska period.  Look at how hard they fought Prudhoe Bay and the pipeline.  And all the lies they are still telling about that.
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2005, 08:12:14 PM »
ANWR is no differant than any other place in Alaska, with the exception of the little southeastern corner.  Anchorage, to Fairbanks, to the Canadian Border, that square is the only portion of the state that is readily accessiable.  The rest of the state is just as pristine as the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.  In fact there is other areas where there is far more wildlife.  During the winter the Caribou move to Canada, the Wolves follow them.  Those beautiful Musk-Ox they show in all the news cast of ANWR, are recent transplants, and there is only a few and they are centered around the pipeline that is outside ANWR.  I know I worked on the project that turned them loose.  There is very few foxes there, far less than other places in the state.  There are few Grizzlies, one of the lowest populations in the state, and absolutely no Black Bears.  Moose are also few and far between, their range is along the southern border in the Brooks Range.  Lemmings and that's it, nothing else there during the winter.  Just a frozen waste land.  Few natives live there, and only on the coast.  I've been there twice during the winter, I won't go back.
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What Is A Veteran?
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Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2005, 08:15:21 PM »
ANWR is no differant than any other place in Alaska, with the exception of the little southeastern corner.  Anchorage, to Fairbanks, to the Canadian Border, that square is the only portion of the state that is readily accessiable.  The rest of the state is just as pristine as the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.  In fact there is other areas where there is far more wildlife.  During the winter the Caribou move to Canada, the Wolves follow them.  Those beautiful Musk-Ox they show in all the news cast of ANWR, are recent transplants, and there is only a few and they are centered around the pipeline that is outside ANWR.  I know I worked on the project that turned them loose.  There is very few foxes there, far less than other places in the state.  There are few Grizzlies, one of the lowest populations in the state, and absolutely no Black Bears.  Moose are also few and far between, their range is along the southern border in the Brooks Range.  Lemmings and that's it, nothing else there during the winter.  Just a frozen waste land.  Few natives live there, and only on the coast.  I've been there twice during the winter, I won't go back.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Land_Owner

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2005, 02:01:14 AM »
Sure, open up ANWR to the oil companies.  Some of the same folks that posted over $43.3 billion in EXCESS PROFITS in the first half of 2005 (1) - your hard earned gas money in their pockets.  The same folks that brought you the April 1977 North Sea blowout of a well in Ekofisk oil field that leaked 81 million gallons (2); and the May 1980 Summit Venture, which took out the Sunshine Skyway Bridge killing 35; and  the March 1989 Prince William Sound, Alaska tanker Exxon Valdez that hit an undersea reef and spilled 10 million–plus gallons of oil into the water causing the worst oil spill in U.S. history (2).  Sure, lets give them the reigns of a large environmentally sensitive and untouched region in the United States and an integral part of the Arctic wildlife pump on the North American continent.  I vote for that - NOT!  

References
(1)http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm#Large_oil_company_profits
(2)
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001451.html

Offline magooch

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2005, 02:38:29 AM »
Quote from: Land_Owner
Sure, open up ANWR to the oil companies.  Some of the same folks that posted over $43.3 billion in EXCESS PROFITS in the first half of 2005 (1) - your hard earned gas money in their pockets.  The same folks that brought you the April 1977 North Sea blowout of a well in Ekofisk oil field that leaked 81 million gallons (2); and the May 1980 Summit Venture, which took out the Sunshine Skyway Bridge killing 35; and  the March 1989 Prince William Sound, Alaska tanker Exxon Valdez that hit an undersea reef and spilled 10 million–plus gallons of oil into the water causing the worst oil spill in U.S. history (2).  Sure, lets give them the reigns of a large environmentally sensitive and untouched region in the United States and an integral part of the Arctic wildlife pump on the North American continent.  I vote for that - NOT!  

References

 http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm#Large_oil_company_profits
(2)
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001451.html


Well then Landowner, I guess we can assume that you don't buy and use the products that these evil "big oil" companies produce.  Most of us do and are well aware that no process is perfect and accidents do and will happen.  That doesn't mean that the whole world should just shut down and go back to living in caves.

By the way, how do you get around?  Do you use electricity?  Just curious, because I'm sure you're not one of those hypocrites.
Swingem

Offline Lawdog

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2005, 08:46:04 AM »
Quote from: Land_Owner
Sure, open up ANWR to the oil companies.  Some of the same folks that posted over $43.3 billion in EXCESS PROFITS in the first half of 2005 (1) - your hard earned gas money in their pockets.  The same folks that brought you the April 1977 North Sea blowout of a well in Ekofisk oil field that leaked 81 million gallons (2); and the May 1980 Summit Venture, which took out the Sunshine Skyway Bridge killing 35; and  the March 1989 Prince William Sound, Alaska tanker Exxon Valdez that hit an undersea reef and spilled 10 million–plus gallons of oil into the water causing the worst oil spill in U.S. history (2).  Sure, lets give them the reigns of a large environmentally sensitive and untouched region in the United States and an integral part of the Arctic wildlife pump on the North American continent.  I vote for that - NOT!  

References
(1)http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm#Large_oil_company_profits
(2)
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001451.html


Land Owner,

Well said and I agree with you completely.  Just one added note.  I wonder where they are going to refine all this crude oil that is heavily laden with sulfur??  Can’t do it in California as EPA laws will not allow the refining of this sulfur laden oil.  Haul it by ship to the Gulf coast states??  That would only add to the cost at the pumps.  How about the East Coast states??  Just more expense at the pumps.  I know, lets build a pipe line to the plains states.  No worry about pollution or spillage there.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2005, 09:23:28 AM »
OK Bin Laden:  Go ahead with your plan.  Assinate the Saudi Royal family, cut off the oil to America.  That will wipe out our economy and manufacturing,  Turn us into a third world country.  We are no longer a first world country, we are dependant on foreign oil for energy, that makes us a second world country.  A first world country is totally self sufficient, we are not.
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Offline Lawdog

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2005, 10:12:23 AM »
Quote from: Sourdough
OK Bin Laden:  Go ahead with your plan.  Assinate the Saudi Royal family, cut off the oil to America.  That will wipe out our economy and manufacturing,  Turn us into a third world country.  We are no longer a first world country, we are dependant on foreign oil for energy, that makes us a second world country.  A first world country is totally self sufficient, we are not.


sourdough,

In 1998 the United States used 18.92 million barrels of oil everyday.  Figures from the USGS at http://energy.cr.usgs.gov/energy/stats_ctry/Stat1.html       Do you think this figure has went down since then?  According to the USGS there is an estimated 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the ANWR.  http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arctic_national_wildlife_refuge/html/execsummary.html  At a rate of 18,000,000 barrels of oil a day how long will take to go thru the oil from ANWR?  Is the ANWR oil is supposed to stop America’s dependency on foreign oil??  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Thebear_78

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2005, 01:18:08 AM »
A lot of people from the lower 48 don't understand the way things are up here.  Alaska is a far different place than the rest of the US.  I don't know hardly anyone that isn't for drilling in anwar and a natural gas pipeline who actually lives here.  The ammount of precautions that the oil industry takes to insure minimul impact is mind boggling.  Most of alaskan economy is derived from the oil and fishing industry, with the dismal turn for the worse in the fishing industry that mainly leaves up oil as our main job source.  Drilling in anwar and the gas pipeline will add a lot of jobs and money into the local economy, lord knows I will be working on it when it comes.  

I see that the future of our country is going to be more and more dependant on alternate fuel sources, biodesiel, corn based alchohol fuels, and dried corn pellet fuel are already making some good steps.  In my home part of michigan dried corn is fastly becoming a heating source, much cheaper and cleaner than burning wood and much cheaper than propane, natural gas, or fuel oil.  A corn pellet burner can heat a house and all the hot water they will need for less than $2 a day.  There is a massive excess of corn making it cheap and readily available.  

If we really want to look at this in the long term, we should start tearing out subdivision, and suburbs to reclaim valuable land for growing.  Land well suited for agriculture is also unfortunately well suited for building so every year good, high yeild, tillable land is cut up and developed so people can have thier 1-2 acre plots.  Cities need to start growning UP instead of OUT.    

The people who complain the most about drilling in anwar are often the same people so quick to develope there ever shrinking wildlife habitat in the lower 48.  If anything needs protecting its your shrinking wildlife habitat, far more ecological damage is done there than would ever be done in anwar.

Offline nomosendero

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2005, 04:16:05 PM »
OK, I read the little article, now what?
Is the closing comment from Mrs. Feinstein the great enviormental expert
 :)  supposed to be the clencher for us.

Would the drilling destroy the Caribou the same way the pipeline did?  :)

Could we use a little enviormental discretion be use to drill the evil oil,
evil, that is if we are not buying from the Arabs.

I guess I should be glad that the Blue State Political Geeks are looking out
for me, but I for some weird reason would rather hear what people like
Thebear_78 has to say as I feel that he would not want to see the eco
system hurt in his State as all the other Alaskans that want this drilling.

As I have said before, the Surfur level has nothing to do with the blockage, if it was the best Oil in the World, the same libs would be against the drilling for the same reasons.
No one drilling spot will solve our oil problems, no one said it would. The idea is to drill several places, & no place will be OK with Liberals. But if
we wait on Liberals to come up with a plan for this or any other problem,
we can hang it up! They will tell us where not to drill, but not where to
drill, or with anything else, how not to do it, but not how to do it.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2005, 09:50:04 AM »
OK, finally got back in, site has had problems for several days.

First off, no Alaskian wants to see any enviromental damage done in ANWR.  We have such stringent regulations in place, and we know things do happen but there is ways of preventing most of them.  Quick responses, can minimise the ones that do happen.  As for the day to day operation, work is only done in the winter when everything is frozen.  When they leave not a track is left behind.  Prudhoe Bay has been a learning ground.  

Second the enviromentalist are going to scream anywhere an attempt is made to drill for oil in Alaska.  Their agenda is to have the entire state locked up with no industry, mining, oil drilling, road building, or any type of progress for those that live here.  They held up the pipeline for eight years.  When President Bush mentioned opening up the NPR (National Petrolium Reserve) they immediently went in an all out drive to get it stopped.  That area has been set aside for that purpose.  The environmental groups want to see as much of Alaska turned into National Parks as possiable.  They are succeding well in their effort.

Now for that infomas USGS report.  Governor Murkowski blasted the USGS for that report before congress.  The so called up dates were made from satalite photos taken in the mid 90s.  They have not done any extensive survey work or had a survey party in ANWR or any where else in Alaska since the late 40s and early 50s.  Look at the maps we get from them, they show trails leading to villages that have been growen up and impassiable for thirty years.  Any way the USGS says the oil is under NPR, very little under Prudhoe Bay and even less under ANWR.  Well Prudhoe Bay proved them wrong.  Private industry said there was a lot of oil there and there was.  As for NPR, private industry sent survey teams with geologist and sismologist to NPR.  Their reports are that there is minimal recoverable oil under NPR, they don't feel NPR is worth drilling.  Private industry also sent teams into ANWR, and like with Prudhoe and NPR they refute what the USGS say about recoverable oil in ANWR.  My recommendation set back and look at the facts.  USGS using outdated and flawed information, or private industry using the latest most up to date techniques and getting an entirely differant openion.  Who would you put your money on?

Why do Alaskians want to see oil coming from ANWR?  Aside from making the country less dependant on foreign oil?  It will give us an opertunity to make money for the state, there you think greed!  Well if you call wanting to have a road to be able to go and see Grandma and Grandpa greed then we have it.  Wanting to be able to heat our homes, yes that's greed.  Wanting a railroad to connect with the lower 48 states, so we don't have to depend on unreliable barges, and held to the whims of longshoremen and shippers in Seattle, yes thats greed.  Or to be able to get fruits and vegitables in a timely manner before they are half rotten, and a mirid of other things, that the people who are not wanting to see drilling, take for granted everyday.  Yes we Alaskians are a greedy bunch we want something close to what the people in the lower 48 states have, how nasty of us to be that greedy.  The people in the villages need to continue to use their out houses or honey buckets at 40 and 50 below, they don't need to have a septic system installed they live in Alaska.  Continue using wood, coal, or fuel oil when they can get it, to heat with, they live in Alaska.  Put off going and seeing the grandkids for another year, airfare is too high, Oh well they live in Alaska.  Cousin John died last week, he cut himself while skinning a bear.  The cut got infected, he lingered for several days before dying, there was too much wind for a plane to get in and out to take him to the doctor.  If we only had a road to the next village they have a health nurse, or to Fairbanks where there is a hospital.  But that would be greed.
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What Is A Veteran?
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Offline nomosendero

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2005, 06:37:51 PM »
Sourdough
Thanks for the accurate info. The impact on Alaskans puts things in perspective, but Liberals don't care for us common folks anyway.
I don't believe Liberal News Reports, never have & never will!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2005, 08:51:28 AM »
Granted a lot of what can't be refined here in Alaska will be sold on the open market and some will go to the far east.  The market dictates where it goes.    But all the jet fuel, gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, kerosine, and asphault used in Alaska is refined right here.  The North Pole refinery has a direct tap onto the Alaska pipeline.  They make jet fuel, then have a direct pipeline to Eielson AFB.  All the jet fuel used at Anchorage and Elmendorf AFB is produced here in North Pole.  I believe it is nine trains leave North Pole daily hauling jet fuel to Anchorage.  There is another refinery down on the Keni, at Nikiski.  They make gasoline, and diesel, and I don't know what else.  These refineries can easily be expanded, and if a pipeline across Canada is ever laid for natural gas, why not lay one right beside it for refined petrolium products, and crude oil.  Stop using freighters to the west coast.  

    Too bad we are geographically seperated from the rest of the states.  I feel that this is one of the main reasons Alaska is viewed as a colony, rather than a state.  A lot of the people in the lower 48 think that Alaska is an island off the coast of California.  You think I jest?  Where do you always see Alaska showen during the nightly weather report?  I'm sure everyone knows at least one person that thinks that, just ask around.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Sourdough

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2006, 12:07:41 PM »
Well, one way to look at it is that the more oil that goes on the world market, the higher the supply, satisfying the demand, and keeping the price down.  At one time (when the pipeline was first built) all the oil from Alaska was required to be sold to foreign countries, it could not be shipped to the lower 48.  The west coast refineries were afraid there would be a clut of oil from Alaska and that the price would plummit.  Therefore they got a law passed that Alaska oil had to be sold overseas.  That law has been rescended now, but the Far East got used to buying Alaska oil, and are waiting for us to produce more.  There will be compatition for it, and unless the US passes a protectionism law it will go to the highest bidder on the open market.  For every barrel of Alaska oil the Far East buys, that's one barrel from the middle East that can go to the East or Gulf coast of the US.

    Personally, I feel that when a Natural Gas pipeline is built from Alaska to the lower 48, an oil pipeline should be laid right beside it.  That pipeline could be used to carry crude oil, or refined products from the Alaskian refineries.  The pipeline has proven that it can withstand earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters.  It withstood one sabatage attempt, the bomb only blew off some insulation.  The only time it has been penitrated was when a druck person shot it point blank five times with a .338 Win Mag.  Only one bullet penitrated the pipe.  Building such a pipeline could spur compleation of the rail system linking Alaska to the lower 48, resulting in Alaskian products going to the lower 48 at far more reasoniable prices, and bring other products to us.  It would also make travel to Alaska far more reasonable.  Tourist could drive their vehicle onto the train in the lower states and get off in Fairbanks or Anchorage.  Then they could drive to where ever they wanted to go on our road system.  We in turn could put our vehicles on the train and go to the lower 48 without having to drive all the way through Canada.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline ironglow

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2006, 05:02:00 AM »
Pleased to see the "enviromentalists" among us not wanting any more drilling for oil to be accomplished...
   
   Now that they, in their public spirited cooperative effort... will be selling their trucks, cars , SUVs, ATVs and not flying any more ...we, who are like Sourdough...in favor of WISE USE of our resources, should find some real bargains in the equipment that these "holier-than-thou" enviro-fans have gotten rid of.
 
   Perhaps they will have to ride their bicycles inside their house...keeping warm, since they have eschewed the use of natural resources for such trivial purposes..
   
   Having family in Ak...I would suggest that Alaskans should have an election to decide if California can set aside any more land for state parks ..or if the states along the Mississippi may be allowed to navigate the "big muddy" with power crafts....

    Makes just as much sense , doesn't it !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nomosendero

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2006, 05:13:51 PM »
ironglow

Quite correct, the liberal view on this drips with hypocracy.

The prime example is the Kennedy brat (Bobby Junior whatever) who
flyes all over the US in a private Jet & tells us peasants that we need
a knee to the chin sub compact. He is trying to save the Planet but I would
bet you could sit 5 or 6 of my houses inside his. I wonder if he would
want to compare his Utility bill with mine or his Jet fuel bill to the gas I
consume in my Z71.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Daveinthebush

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Our country
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 05:26:33 PM »
Quote
A lot of the people in the lower 48 think that Alaska is an island off the coast of California.


I visited an aunt when back in NY.  She was very courious about how the people in this country lived and why I decided to leave the United States. :roll:


Drill it.  The caribou don't care and eat the grass that grows underneith the pipeline in the spring.  If all the regulations are followed there should not be any problems.

The oil that leaves Valdez does so in double hulled tankers with dual bribges, engines and back up systems.  Two tugs escort every tanker ($10,000 cost to you for each tug per trip). There is an escort vessel at times too.  Radar for icebergs on Bligh Island, Coast Guard radio relay stations all over the place and emergency responce vessles stationed in 3-4 diffeent locations. The coasties have a cutter here and three quick boats for protection.
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Offline ironglow

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Senate Blocks Alaska Refuge Drilling
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2006, 12:44:37 PM »
To out Alaskan friends...from all the folks between the "left coast" and the Ny City/ Washington corridor....

   WELCOME TO "FLYOVER" COUNTRY !

   We in the other red states/counties welcome you !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)