Author Topic: SCENARIO: Cult leader moves into neighborhood. (Read 2018 times)

Sir Knight · « **on:** December 26, 2005, 04:04:01 PM »

One of my Christmas gifts was a book outlining weird and bizarre things that have happened in different parts of the country. This scenario is based on a supposedly true story that MIGHT have happened in West Milford, NJ in the early 1980's. The reason why this particular story caught my eyes was because the type of neighborhood described in the story is the same type of neighborhood that I presently live in. Okay, here's the scenario ...

You live in a rural neighborhood tucked off from the rest of the town with about a dozen and a half homes spread a couple of hundred yards from each other. It's a new community and new families are slowly moving in. Everybody pretty much keeps to themselves. The neighborhood is quite and peaceful until a couple of months ago when random acts of vandalism start happening in the community -- mailboxs are being knocked over, car windows are being soaped, etc.

The incidents have been reported to the local Sheriff but no arrests have been made and you can tell that it isn't high on his list of cases to resolve. One of the new'er residents (a typical and normal sort of guy) offers to hold a neighborhood meeting at his house to discuss the matter and what the community can do about the problem.

Being the middle of the summer and not knowing how your neighbors feel about firearms, you carry something that you can effectively conceal. For me, that would be a Beretta 9000 in .40S&W with a 10+1 capacity carried in a belly band with a spare mag.

Unknown to everyone present, the man who is hosting the meeting is a cult leader from the mid-west with a large following of members who are silently waiting upstairs. It was these cult members that were committing the vandalism for the sole purpose of luring the community residents under one roof.

A few minutes after the meeting gets underway, he signals his followers and they storm downstairs stabbing and slashing everyone with knives. What do you do? What could you have done before hand, besides the obvious of not going, that would have placed you in a better tactical position to get out of there alive?

Again, this scenario is based on supposedly a true story. Whether it actually happened or not is not the issue. The issue is that it COULD happen and what would you do and how would you react if you found yourself in the middle of it?

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2005, 02:42:38 AM »

There's an easy answer to that - it is found in that Beretta you carried in your belly band. Actually, it is found 11 times first-off and then 10 times later. You carried a gun for defense - in that scenario you would have to use it. You would not have time for, ummm, 'disabling shots' - every one would have to bring down one of the cult members doing the damage.

In a closed environment like that it would be a horrendous sight. But, if you were able to defend yourself and your loved ones, and maybe a few of your new neighbors in addition, you would hae answered your own questions.

Put simply - I would be able to walk out and call the police than to be carried out as a statistic. JMHO. Mikey.

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2005, 03:59:34 AM »

YUP!
Scene is seriously flawed in many areas though, IMO.
Blessings

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2005, 11:29:21 AM »

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNN!!!!!

Sir Knight · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2005, 02:01:26 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton

Scene is seriously flawed in many areas though, IMO.

What do you mean? Here's the link on what MIGHT have happened.

williamlayton · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2005, 02:12:53 PM »

SK
Has nothing to do with you. This just seems a little farfetched for me though I found no info at urban legends.
Interesting though.
Blessings

Sir Knight · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2005, 04:07:08 PM »

I don't have any personal information about this supposed incident. As a matter of fact, the first I ever heard of any of this was a few days ago when I was reading about it in a book that I got for Christmas ...

http://www.opacity.us/image536.htm ...
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Barbara - According to legend, there was a cult leader who moved into one of the houses. Pranks started happening in the normally quiet neighborhood. The people were none the wiser to the man's past. Anyway, he called a meeting at his house so they could work out a solution to the problem. The rest of his cult came down from the second floor and killed everyone. The cult was never heard from again.
http://www.availabledark.com/html/wnj/wnj05.htm ...
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been abandoned as long as anyone can remember. There is a compelling story of how one madman managed to invite his neighbors on New City Road to his home one night and kill them all in one fell swoop. I haven't seen any news stories to back that up, but historians and local officials do not deny the story, either. Hmm!
http://www.lostdestinations.com/demons.htm ...
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the man eventually lured all of his neighbors to his home, presumably under the guise of a "neighborhood meeting", perhaps in order to address the recent rash of events. Once all of the unsuspecting families had been led down into his basement for the meeting, cult members emerged from their hiding places to massacre the whole neighborhood in a frenzied ritual of violence.
http://www.battlecenter.net/new/demonsalley.php ...
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I had always heard this spot was being preserved for some historical reasons, however recently I had brought a friend of mine who is a well-known photographer, and he was very impressed. He went back on his own to shoot some pictures, and the camera's shutter would not open (and there was nothing wrong with it). His camera's inability to work when photographing the houses made him stop at some of the small town stores on Rt 23 to try to get some more information on the stretch of houses.

An old man told him quite a tale of the village. How true the story is I investigated no further, but it is quite scary.

He claimed a man moved into the town in the early '80s who seemed to be a typical person and a normal resident. Shortly after his arrival weird things started happening. Small pranks, I assume. The residents suspected that it was kids coming off Rt. 23 to play jokes on the odd street.
The new resident decided to hold a town meeting at his house to decide what to do about the pranksters. Little did the small community know about this man's history or the plans for all the people of the town.

The old timer claimed this man had been a cult leader in the midwest and had a large following of members. He had perpetrated the pranks in a plot to get all the town members together under the roof of his home.

Once all were gathered in the downstairs, cult members stampeded from the upper level and engaged in a massacre of every member of the town.

Supposedly, the cult fled and were never caught.

The old man said no one in the town talks about the incident, and most deny it ever happened
[/list:u] ... I'm not saying that it's true or that it isn't. For some reason, it struck me as something that COULD happen and the neighborhood that I live in resembles the way this neighborhood was described (minus the crazy cult leader hopefully ).

myronman3 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2005, 05:07:14 PM »

the answer is ... shoot everybad guy you can through the brain.

i, too, doubt this every happened.

rockbilly · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2005, 08:35:13 AM »

:shock: :shock: :shock: Step back non believers.........I know for a fact this is true, how.................well the Easter Bunny told me! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Nuff said........... :wink:

Sir Knight · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2005, 03:45:25 PM »

I've got a NJ State Trooper looking into this on another board -- will post what I hear back.

Mainer · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2006, 03:01:27 AM »

No offense, but this story sounds like BS. How could someone perpetrate a masacre in NJ in the 1980s and then flee without being caught? The cult leader and his followers would have been hunted to the ends of the earth. Also, this would have been front page news, at least in NJ. If you are interested in verifying whether or not something like this actually happened, you might want to check out the microfiche at your local library.

Also, since the buildings are owned by the Newark Watershed Commission, they likely were taken by eminent domain. A quick search of records at the local registry of deeds would turn up the deeds to the property and the dates the Commission acquired the parcels.

As a hypothetical, I think the interesting question is what type of handgun would you have been carrying had you been present at such a neighborhood meeting in the early 1980s. I guess the most likely choice would have been a snubnosed .38, possibly followed by a compact 1911. Other possible candidates would have been a .357, full-size 1911, or Browning HP, but those would have been large guns to tote around.

Tn Jim · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2006, 12:26:07 PM »

Simple. Point, fire, repeat as needed.

JohnClif · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2006, 09:26:04 PM »

If you are confronted by "a large number" of fanatics armed with knives while you are confined to a room with many other people, you're most likely going to die... even if you have a gun.

How many of you who carry a concealed handgun also carry at least one reload (speedloader or spare mag)? How many rounds do you carry, total?

If you're in the average home's living room, say 20' x 20', sitting there eating your cookies and drinking your milk, and suddenly the two exits are swarmed with people waving machetes... will you even have time to get your gun out? Or, will you be too busy choking on your refreshments, astonished by what's happening, to think of dumping that plate off your lap, dropping that glass, jumping behind the nearest piece of large furniture, and drawing your weapon? What about all of your neighbors who are screaming and knocking you down as they try to flee?

This is pretty much one of those nonsurvivable situations. Your only reasonable way to protect yourself was to not have gone to the meeting in the first place, or failing that convincing your neighbors to hold the meeting on the front porch. By the time the room is wall-to-wall with knife-swinging fanatics and bleeding neighbors, you're screwed.

Sir Knight · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2006, 04:47:10 AM »

That's sort of what I was trying to ask. What could you have done before-hand (other than not going) that would have put you in a better defensive position? Sit by an exit so you are the first one to get out if possible? Sit in a corner so you are the last one they can get to thus giving you SOME time to draw your weapon and start shooting?

We were at a prayer service yesterday at a couple's house that we barely knew. The place was filled with several other couples. Some, which we also barely knew while others were total strangers.

Nothing happened and everyone had a good time but I kept thinking about this scenario and how effective or ineffective my Rohrbaugh R9 would be.

WmRoy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2006, 01:12:24 PM »

Your best and perhaps only chance would be to pick the location farthest from any door (or even window) and place your back to the wall or even better a corner. This would allow you the maximum amount of time to react to the situation. Of course you'd likely still get it in the end..... :eek:

DELETED · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2006, 11:59:36 AM »

DELETED

DeviousApe · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2006, 12:55:30 PM »

Quote from: Sir Knight

I've got a NJ State Trooper looking into this on another board -- will post what I hear back.

Snopes.com might be able to find out if this is true, or not.

leverfan · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2006, 11:53:19 AM »

Quote from: Sir Knight

What could you have done before-hand (other than not going) that would have put you in a better defensive position?

Wearing the same armor as your avatar is sporting would do you more good than trying to yank a pistol in that hypothetical situation. That steel would keep you from getting cut while you're diving out the nearest window, too!

Sir Knight · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2006, 03:03:12 PM »

Quote from: cknight98

First off, you have way to much time on your hands to worry about a situation like this... if you want to worry yourself to death about scenarios, then you'd have much better spent your time on something that was really possible

1) I got a book for Christmas which talked about this.

2) In addition to the book, I found several websites that told the same story.

3) The neighborhood described matches my neighborhood.

4) Being relatively new to the community, we often get invited to people's homes that we barely know.

.:.) All of this together, got me thinking about ths particular scenario.

Sir Knight · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2006, 04:24:43 PM »

Oops, double tap. Please ignore.

Jerry J · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2006, 01:53:41 AM »

OK that was the 80s scenario, let's skip ahead to the new millenium post 911. Strange group moving into the neighborhood: people would be more alert now and suspicious, all you'd have to do is call homeland security as they could be suspected terrorist. The FBI probably alread has info on them. Next you'd probably have video of the group committing the vandalisim because some enterprising home owner would be setting up his video camera to catch the pereps. You probably be very suspcious of going to anothers home without some background. You would have a trusted friend who would know the leader or some information. I doubt you'd go in blind. Lastly I'd take out the leader first.

Sir Knight · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:42:31 AM »

Presently my community has 14 single family homes. Four more are either being built or scheduled to be built. A new house goes up every 2-3 months. We were the second house here. We moved in during the late summer. Didn't actually talk to the already existing neighbor until the following Spring. Our neighbor directly across the street moved in last fall. Again, we didn't introduce each other until this past Spring. People here pretty much keep to themselves. Out of the 14 households that are living here, we've met five of them. 14 -- not counting us is 13. We semi-know 5 out of 13 households. That's a little over one-third and a little less than half.

If some nutso moves in at the end of the street, I can assure you that most of the community will not know about it.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there is something going on in my community. I'm merely pointing out that based on personal experience this particular scenario is more possible than one might originally think on the surface.

cvixx · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2006, 11:06:29 AM »

On the other hand, you could move to Utah and have no-one do more than say 'Hello' because you are not of the predominant faith. Think I would prefer neighbors who are friendly. Chances of a psycho are slim to none in most parts of the USA, leaving aside Los Angeles or other big cities and you probably don't live there.

Dee · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2006, 06:23:09 PM »

Call 911 and hide behind your chair until the police get there. :shock:

superjay01 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2006, 06:34:48 AM »

I think this is an interesting topic, just because it gets people thinking "what would I do". I feel that the more scenarios you go through in your mind the better prepared you are in an emergency situation. This story could easly get changed to being in a crowded room when a fire or who knows what else could happen so it makes you think about escape routes and that sort of thing. I personally feel that this type of forum is a great way to bounce ideas off of each other about topics like this.

As to the specific question at hand. I would have tried to put myself close to an escape route window, door, etc. If not your chances of surviving this would be minimal, however your only chance of survival would be trying to fight yourway to an exit.

WmRoy · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2006, 12:10:35 PM »

Quote from: superjay01

I think this is an interesting topic, just because it gets people thinking "what would I do". I feel that the more scenarios you go through in your mind the better prepared you are in an emergency situation. This story could easly get changed to being in a crowded room when a fire or who knows what else could happen so it makes you think about escape routes and that sort of thing. I personally feel that this type of forum is a great way to bounce ideas off of each other about topics like this.

As to the specific question at hand. I would have tried to put myself close to an escape route window, door, etc. If not your chances of surviving this would be minimal, however your only chance of survival would be trying to fight yourway to an exit.

If you're close to the door you'll just be one of the first to get it..........

Much better to be far from the door with your back to the wall or better a corner. That way if you are ccw then you have a chance to draw and defend yourself.

superjay01 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2006, 01:00:14 PM »

I don't agree. My thinking behind it was there was a good many people trying to kill you. I feel that the best would be try to escape vs trying to shoot them all. My guess is that if something like this was going to go down their would be more than 20 people trying to kill you.

WmRoy · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2006, 02:25:25 PM »

Well you may not be able to shoot them all but at least you'll take some with you! If you're close to the door and they genuinely surprise you, you are DEAD! Besides fleeing from a scene where I know innocent folks are going to die (unless I'm trying to get my wife or kids out of there) is just not my style.....

superjay01 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2006, 03:21:10 PM »

I don't understand why I would be dead if I was close to an exit door. I mean the people trying to kill me are inside the house already. As for playing the hero role you can go ahead and do that. I have been put into a situation sort of like this except it was a fire in a house full of people. When it comes to a live and death situation though you think about your family first, you second and everyone else third. It is hard to fight off nature.

WmRoy · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:02:19 PM »

Do you really think if they are 'well' bent on slaughtering all the folks that they are not going to be at the exits??? I'm assuming that they are rushing into the room "through" all potential exit routes.... with the possible exception of a window. But if they were really smart/evil you are in an interior room or a basement level with no windows or doors that don't have bad guys rushing in to do you harm.....

I don't read the original post as giving you an easy escape route.... that's part of the whole problem as I see it.

And if no one fights back and everyone tries to flee, then everyone dies from wounds to the back............... :eek: That's kinda what the bad guys are hoping for I would guess..... :shock: