Author Topic: Spitzer soft point bullet choices (Read 1352 times)

savageT · « **on:** March 10, 2003, 05:12:22 AM »

Interested in your opinions on which brand name bullet you like for both accuracy and hunting white-tails. Now to narrow this down, we'll start with .30 cal. .308: dia. for .300 Savage and 30-06:
150 grain spitzer soft points
165 grain boat tails
180 grain round nosed

Thanks!

Jim

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2003, 08:46:53 AM »

I would lean towards the 165 grn bullet; but no boat-tails. My father has killed several nice deer, including last year a 200 pound white-tail 10 pt. buck, with the Hornady 165 grn Interlock Spitzer (non boat-tail) out of his .308 Winchester. All one shot kills and all nice clean exits at woods ranges with very little bloodshot meat. Accuracy has always been excellant out of his BAR, with 1" groups being easy to attain in his handloads.

I've also been told that the Remington 165 grn Cor-Lokt spitzer is a very good bullet in the .308/.300 class, and they are priced great. I plan on giving them a try in my .300 Savage soon due to their low cost.

I've seen a lot of bad opinions about boat-tails not holding together on deer and also that they don't provide any advantage over other designs until the velocity is way down. I've never had one fail on me but I have talked to a few hunters that have recovered boat-tails loaded in "premium" factory loads and the jackets/cores are reported to have separated quite a bit; especially when shot at shorter woods ranges.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2003, 09:47:38 AM »

I don't want to get this topic going again, but for every rifle I shoot, .338 caliber and smaller, I use nothing but the heaviest Sierra HPBT bullets.

Have never had one fail to drop the game where it stood, with a single shot.

Ranges? 35 feet to 704 yards.

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2003, 10:22:47 AM »

I wasn't trying to open a can of worms either. :oops: Hope my comments/observations about boat-tails didn't stir up some old arguments on the subject.

Was just trying to be helpful.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2003, 12:24:30 PM »

My choice for the .300 would be 150g Winchester power points. I use them in a bolt action .30-30 and they perform very well. It was that bullet that took the buck below, range 150 yards. For the .30-06, I would go with 165g Hornady BTSP. Just my opinion.

jhm · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2003, 12:56:33 PM »

Savage: I will make it quick I have loaded all 3 and I liked 165

JIM

Selmer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2003, 03:00:49 PM »

If you're going after whitetails you will be very happy with the 150 gr. or 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips. They are outstandingly accurate in every gun I have shot them in, and that's every gun I own. They are all I use for deer, 150 gr. for the .308, 165 gr. for the .30-06. These bullets are designed specifically for shooting thin-skinned game and are devastating on deer and antelope.
Selmer

freddogs · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2003, 04:25:33 PM »

:grin: I like to use the 150 gr Nosler balistic tip. It's performed well on deer and shoots very well out of my 30.06. I use the 165 gr partition for elk. I mostly use these two bullets for most all my hunting. :sniper:

Lvl1trauma · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:40:08 AM »

I have had great accuracy and terminal ballistics with the Hornady 150 grain SP flat base #3031 in the 30/06. Textbook expansion that stops right at the interlock. For complete devistation, try the Sierra 165gr. HPBT. You probably won't recover one of these. I use them in my .300 wby and it looks like a stick of dynamite went off on the exit hole. End results with both are a dead deer. The Sierra is rather wasteful on meat, but is consistantly shoots less than 1". So does the Hornady.

Beau

chk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:27:19 AM »

I've loaded 165gr corelokts for years with good results in accuracy and terminal ballistics. I'd load 150 gr bullets for the 300 Savage,probably Hornady spire points. If you want real knock down power with no reguard to meat damage the Nosler BT's are great. My son shot a buck with his 30-06 using a 165gr Nosler BT and it knocked the deer down. There was a pool ball size exit wound. It was a neck shot.

Selmer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2003, 04:39:04 AM »

Not to dispute your story at all chk, just to state my experiences as well. I think we can all agree that bullet performance is not judged by one animal. I have shot and seen shot literally several dozen deer and antelope with Nosler Ballistic tips from the 95 gr. 6mm BT, which I consider an inappropriate deer bullet in this caliber, up to a 200 gr. BT out of a .338/.378 Wby.(again, not my first choice of hunting bullet from this cannon). I have only ever seen one "blow up" and that was on a big whitetail doe with a 125 gr. BT out of a .308 at about 25 yds. All other cases have been excellent expansion and no more lost meat than any other bullet. We shoot our yearly supply of meat every fall and if excessively ruined meat were the rule with this bullet you can bet I'd switch bullets, but they don't wreck any more meat than a standard exposed-tip bullet in MY experience. I shot two muely bucks this fall, one at 100 yds, the other at 50 yds. Both were broadside to me and the 165 gr. BT broke the shoulder on one and penetrated out the other side and dropped it in about ten steps. The other I literally centered the heart at 50 yds, there was nothing left of it, the deer just pitched foward into the dirt. I can't ask for better bullet performance on deer out of my .30 caliber guns than a Ballistic Tip, I even have convinced my father to switch after 30+ years of Sierra Gamekings and Speer Hot-Cores. I love them, please don't overlook them. BTW, they are very suitable for "standard" cartridges, I wouldn't use them in super-mags, i.e. the .338/.378 Wby, or in smaller diameter guns than a 7mm unless used in a pistol. The only bullet that flies at deer out of my .243 is a 100 gr. Nosler Partition, period.
Have fun, enjoy the BT's!
Selmer

chk · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2003, 12:06:24 PM »

No offence taken. My observation last deer season was out of eight hunters only two of us didn't use BT's. I noticed more damage from the BT's than the Sierra's and Corelokts used before. The damge didn't look like the bullets exploded or had a failure. The exit wounds did show a great deal more shock transfer to the animal. All shots were 50 yards or closer. I don't condem BT's for their performance. If you want a bullet that anchors an animal fast it's the BT hands down to me.

PaulS · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2003, 01:37:18 PM »

SavageT,
The .300 savage will probably do best with a 150 grain bullet (velocity to energy ratio) and from my experience with the 3006 the 165 grain bullets are better than others by the same criteria. I would choose non-premium bullets for both against white-tails. Sierra and Speer bullets are the most available and cheapest GOOD bullets in my area and I use them for most medium size game with excellent results. I am not sure that you can tell the difference in accuracy between the two in a well developed load although your weapon may show a preference for one or the other.

Don't pick a bullet that you may not be able to get next year or next month - pick a make that is readily available to you all year round. Reserve the premium bullets for large or dangerous game.

PaulS

savageT · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:16:27 PM »

Quote from: PaulS

SavageT,
The .300 savage will probably do best with a 150 grain bullet (velocity to energy ratio) and from my experience with the 3006 the 165 grain bullets are better than others by the same criteria. I would choose non-premium bullets for both against white-tails. Sierra and Speer bullets are the most available and cheapest GOOD bullets in my area and I use them for most medium size game with excellent results. I am not sure that you can tell the difference in accuracy between the two in a well developed load although your weapon may show a preference for one or the other.

Don't pick a bullet that you may not be able to get next year or next month - pick a make that is readily available to you all year round. Reserve the premium bullets for large or dangerous game.

PaulS

Thanks Paul! What do you think of the Hornady spitzer SP's in 150 grain? As you suggested, they are available locally from my source for powders and primers.

Jim

Selmer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2003, 04:13:04 PM »

chk, at 50 yds, that is not a surprising result. You and I might hunt in different terrains, 75% or our animals here in South Dakota are taken at over 150 yds because of our style of hunting, which is pick a good corner post in a section and watch and wait for a good shot. Many we take are over 300 yds. The mule deer situation is different, that is spot and stalk, this fall happened to work exceptionally well, they saw dad up high in the draw and decided to stay low, leaving an easy stalk for me. When shooting at 50 yds or less the damage will be increased with any bullet, but the BT expands so quickly it increases it a little.
Selmer

chk · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2003, 02:57:33 AM »

Selmer, lots of underbrush and woods here in West Virginia with powerline and gasline right-of-ways here and there. I believe the BT's were designed for longer shots with standard cartridges and will give reliable expansion at lower velocities. The fact that they don't blow up at woods ranges speaks well of the design. My son lives in eastern North Carolina and started using BT's to anchor his deer quick before it goes too far into a swamp or into dense underbrush. I started using SST's but haven't got a deer with one yet. I'm under the impression the SST's expand a little slower than a BT. Over 90% of deer shot here are under 100 yards and most at 50 or less.

Selmer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2003, 07:51:39 AM »

Exactly right chk, which is when we get into debates and bullet recommendations we should make sure we know what the particular application for each situation is. If I were in your situation, I'd probably use a standard Speer or Sierra game bullet in a 180 gr. weight because it would give more knockdown and I wouldn't need any added trajectory benefit. The BT is great for my application but not ideal for yours, so we've both picked good bullets for our situations.
Selmer

Tom W. · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2003, 07:20:06 PM »

In the 30/06 I've liked the 180 gr. Sierra GameKings.
In my .270 the 130 gr. GameKings.
In my SINGLE SHOT 30/30 the 150 gr. GameKings. Or 160 gr. cast g/c.

HappyHunter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2003, 01:47:29 AM »

I am a big fan of nosler BT, use it in 25-06 with flawless results on white tail, in rifle and 15 inch encore.

I am working up loads for Moose in a 300 weatherby and was considering Partitions.

My fater-in-law is working up loads for moose in his 25-06 (I know sounds small but this man can place the bullet and he is no stranger to moose meat).
I was consdidering partitions as well.

My son has a new .243 single shot rifle to use on white tail, I was considering the BT for this...you suggested the partition. Why?

If you would, comment on my bullet selection of three examples above.

Thanks!

Fred

Selmer · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:24:48 AM »

As far as the first two, I think you're doing fine, use the BT in the .25-06, as long as it's the 115 gr., they 100 gr. might be a little light, but I don't own a .25 cal, so you know more than I do in that situation. With the .300 Wby., definitely go with the Partition, or consider the new Nosler Accubond. I haven't used the Accubond, but it's a bonded-core ballistic tip and the only weight available in .30 this year is 200gr, which might be perfect for your moose hunt, but if you want absolute insurance on a bullet not failing you, use the 180 or 200 gr. Partition for the moose, that's probably what I would do. T
he .243...what a hotly disputed topic for deer hunting. Personally, I love shooting deer with the .243, it's what I took my first big-game animals with, a mule deer 4x5, and whitetail doe and a 14 1/2" antelope in the same year, a total of 4 shots, I missed the first one at the mulie. The main reason I load Partitions in the .243 is that it is a small deer bullet, but in the 100 gr. weight it has pretty good sectional density. When my dad first started loading for it back in the 70's, you had a few choices for bullets, FMJ, varmint bullets, 100 gr. light-jacketed bullets, and the Nosler Partition. He didn't buy the gun to shoot varmints, he bought it for my mother to take deer and antelop with and not be scared of recoil. We've always used the Partition bullet for any hunting purposes, we load for a friend who insists that we load him "those purple-tipped bullets" He has taken several whitetails with the 95 gr. BT and they haven't failed, but here's why I say the Partition in the .243. It leaves room for error. I have never seen a deer shot with a partition out to 300 yds that we haven't had a complete pass through and good wound channel on. The most impressive demonstration of this was 3 years ago when my idiot brother went for a neck shot on a mulie doe at about 100 yds and missed the spine, but you could see the wound with the naked eye. She took off running straight away from us, I centered her tail with my crosshairs on a rest and pulled the trigger, she piled up in a heap. My shot entered the bunghold, and went through the pelvis, the top of the stomach, part of the spine, took out one lung and exited the brisket. This doe weighed 223 lbs. dressed, that's a big critter for a lengthwise penetration. If you want a bullet that will never fail in the .243, use a Nosler Partition. The other nice thing that we have found is that we can take much less expensive Speer 100 gr. bullets, put them on top of the same powder charge, shoot three rounds of Speer and three rounds of Partition and they still keep the group under 1" most days, 1 1/2" every day, the Speers are good, cheap target ammo, then switch to the Partitions for hunting. I hope this explains my point of view, it was long, but hopefully worth it. If you have any more question, ask away. BTW, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'd rather shoot a Nosler than anything else!
Selmer

HappyHunter · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2003, 11:00:33 AM »

I also prefer nosler and have used speer and sierra to develope loads and do a final tune with the BT, part of hand loading is to be frugal is it not?

Thanks for the help.

Fred

Selmer · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2003, 11:20:09 AM »

Great minds think alike Fred...