Author Topic: 500 S&W (Read 1335 times)

msorenso · « **on:** January 01, 2006, 03:36:17 AM »

just curious, I know this is a dumb question, but how would you compare a 500 s&w to a 44 mag. Double the recoil, thripe???

msorenso · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2006, 03:38:51 AM »

Sorry I type too fast sometimes. triple the recoil??

PaulS · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2006, 06:36:59 AM »

With similar barrel lengths and weight of guns the recoil is about 50% more. Unless you are using the heaviest weight bullets in the 500 and light bullets in the 44 - then your recoil might double.

Pinkerton · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2006, 09:31:14 AM »

Quote

With similar barrel lengths and weight of guns the recoil is about 50% more. Unless you are using the heaviest weight bullets in the 500 and light bullets in the 44 - then your recoil might double.

PaulS, did you do that just to see if we're paying attention?

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** January 01, 2006, 10:53:52 AM »

Lets see. If the 44 mag. recoil = X, then 50% more would be X+.5X. To double the recoil you'd have to use 2X. Is my math correct?

jro45 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:10:03 AM »

How my 44 mag compares to my 500 S&W. Well my 44 has a 5.5" barrel and shoots the 240 gr bullet at 1430 fps. My 500 shoots the 400 gr bullet at 1620 fps and I would say the 500 has a little more recoil

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:15:56 AM »

My full house 44 Mag do not compare to the 500 Mag, not matter the bullet weight.

The 500 Mag just has more flash and concussion.

swampthing · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2006, 02:48:41 PM »

It all depends on what load/s you'r comparing.
There is an old saying, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Thats actually a law but here is how to check for your self for free using a simple Physics formula:
1. Take the weight of the gun in pounds and multiply that by 64.348 save this number on paper.
2. Take the weight of the bullet {or shot charge} and divide by 7000, this will give you weight in pounds, example: 280g bullet weighs .04 pounds.
3. Now take the figure you got from #2 and multiply that by the velocity of the load. save this figure also
4. Take the powder charge weight in grains and divide that # by 7000 then take that figure and multiply that by 4700. save that figure as well.
5. Now is the easy part, take the figure you got from #3 and add it to the figure you got from #4, take that figure and multiply it by it self, {example if you got 55 as a some multiply 55 by 55},
Now take that number and divide that by the #1 figure.
The answer will tell you the amount of recoil, in Foot Pounds, {ft,lbs,} a particular load will generate from a particular firearm. It works for shotguns, rifles, and handguns. It looks like a lot but it is very simple and straightfoward, it just takes a lot of space to write out the formula.

My 280g .44mag load at 1300fps kicks with roughly 17 ft,lbs.
If the 500 mag weighed the same as my .44 and was shooting 400grainers at 1400fps it would be substantially more, but, the muzzle brake I see on these guns would reduce the 500mag's recoil by about 35% and the heft of the gun will also soak up a good portion as well.

SEVENTY · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2006, 03:36:19 PM »

First let me say that we all have questions that need an answer, and recoil is important to some of us. However, my take on it is: When you
begin hunting with magnum calibers, you get them with the first shot and recoil will not spoil the second ! :-D

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2006, 01:38:21 AM »

Quote from: swampthing

It all depends on what load/s you'r comparing.
There is an old saying, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Thats actually a law but here is how to check for your self for free using a simple Physics formula:
1. Take the weight of the gun in pounds and multiply that by 64.348 save this number on paper.
2. Take the weight of the bullet {or shot charge} and divide by 7000, this will give you weight in pounds, example: 280g bullet weighs .04 pounds.
3. Now take the figure you got from #2 and multiply that by the velocity of the load. save this figure also
4. Take the powder charge weight in grains and divide that # by 7000 then take that figure and multiply that by 4700. save that figure as well.
5. Now is the easy part, take the figure you got from #3 and add it to the figure you got from #4, take that figure and multiply it by it self, {example if you got 55 as a some multiply 55 by 55},
Now take that number and divide that by the #1 figure.
The answer will tell you the amount of recoil, in Foot Pounds, {ft,lbs,} a particular load will generate from a particular firearm. It works for shotguns, rifles, and handguns. It looks like a lot but it is very simple and straightfoward, it just takes a lot of space to write out the formula.

My 280g .44mag load at 1300fps kicks with roughly 17 ft,lbs.
If the 500 mag weighed the same as my .44 and was shooting 400grainers at 1400fps it would be substantially more, but, the muzzle brake I see on these guns would reduce the 500mag's recoil by about 35% and the heft of the gun will also soak up a good portion as well.

All your math looks good, but reality is different. I have a S&W 629 in 44 Mag and I have two 500 Mags. I know from experience not some written formula that the 500 Mag has more recoil than my 44 Mag. No matter the weight of the gun, bullet or anything else.
One of the guys I use to hunt with is an avid 44 Mag shooter, he shot my 500 Mag with a 275 gr. Barnes bullet. He shot it 5 times and said he did not like the recoil of the gun and never has shot it again. Even a light loaded 500 Mag has a good amount of recoil.

jro45 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2006, 01:58:03 AM »

The 500 S&W shooting a 350 gr bullet at 1780 fps has 35.45 ft lbs of recoil
with the 400 at 1620 fps has 34.19 ft lbs of recoil. This info is with a 500 S&W with a scope on it close to 6 lbs.

hubcap · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2006, 06:20:15 AM »

remember there's 2 kinds of recoil. Actual and felt. Felt recoil can't be calculated witha formula

Grumulkin · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2006, 08:25:44 AM »

I have a couple of .44 Mags (unscoped and unbraked) and have shot a scoped 500 S&W revolver which of course has the muzzel brake. In my opinion, the 500 S&W with factory heavy bullets is no more uncomfortable to shoot than either of the .44s with full house 240 grain bullet loads. The 500 S&W of course weighs quite a bit more than the .44 Magnums which makes a big difference.

LarryL · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2006, 08:44:35 AM »

You are right on with your felt vs. actual recoil. There are so many factors to consider.

Grip design, material, and how you hold your gun makes a big difference. I used to shoot a 6" 629 S&W with fairly narrow gripper grips. It was not fun to shoot much, and really pounded the web of your hand. Now I have a 5.5" Ruger SBH with smooth faux ivory grips. I find it is a pussycat even with hot Corbons and handloads. I also have a SRH in .480 with a Hogue monogrip on it. With cast handloads, it can definitely sting a bit. I'm betting I could put the same loads in a single action FA, and it would be most pleasant by comparison. But, that's just me. Other folks don't like the SA grips. Placement of the grip location vs the bore line can change how recoil comes back at you vs. up and away. That can greatly impact perceived recoil.

Some people are sensitive to the muzzle blast and perceive the recoil worse on those rounds. A perfect example is the 180 gr .44 mag. It has a huge muzzle flash, and some people think it is a horrible thing. I've had people in lanes beside me back away from the line and watch. The heavy bullets kick a lot more, but have far less muzzle blast/flash. Similarly, a comp'ed barrel will have less actual recoil, but will have more muzzle blast, causing some shooters to flinch. A good comp can cut actual recoil a very large percentage.

If you can shoot both rounds in similar guns, that is the best way to have a perfect comparison. For example, you could shoot the .44, the .480, and the .454, all in the SRH platform and have a good comparison of the recoil by itself.

All that being said, I'm sure we are pretty safe to assume that the 500 will definitely kick more than the .44 mag!! Corbon and Buffalo Bore's hottest hunting ammo for the .44 mag runs about 1200 FTLBS of energy at the muzzle. Buffalo Bore lists a special P+ .44 for limited firearms that launches a 340 gr LBT-LFN-GC at 1480 fps for 1640 FTLBS of energy. By comparison, The 500 S&W loads from Corbon and Buffalo Bore run around 2500 FTLBS of energy. The highest energy load is a 440 gr hard cast at 1625 FPS, with 2580 FTLBS of energy. Good enough for a fair sized mastodon!!

If you really want that 500, but want a load you can shoot more easily, Corbon also offers two 500 S&W Special loads that are similar to the 1200 FTLBS .44 mag energy range. If you handload, you will have lots of other options.

swampthing · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2006, 10:06:36 AM »

That equation will tell you exactly how much more recoil it has over the .44mag. Don't get me wrong it will be substantial.
The equation will tell you actual, not percieved or estimated.
When one factors in the other variables, such as powder burn rate. All things being equal: {bullet, gun, charge weight, and velocity}, faster powders have more percieved recoil than slower powders due to the abrupt ignition and pressure curve of the powder. But typically you DO NOT use an equal charge of fast burning powder compared to the slower "magnum" powder. So velocity will be lower as well as overall recoil. A reloading manual will tell you what type, and, what charge gives you approximatly what velocity.

SEVENTY · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2006, 03:09:41 PM »

:lol: WOW! You guys are impressive! I congratulate you on your knowlege of recoil, loads, etc.. When it comes down to shooting and hitting the target, all your statistics and book knowlege are only a matter for discussion. Find the pistol that you think you want, try it out, and if you want it, buy it. Every one of us God made different and I learned to not buy something without putting it in my hand and making a decision about whether it meets my standard for a" shooter".

hubcap · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2006, 05:34:35 PM »

Right on, 70. Try it, then buy it.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2006, 12:35:47 AM »

Quote from: SEVENTY

:lol: WOW! You guys are impressive! I congratulate you on your knowlege of recoil, loads, etc.. When it comes down to shooting and hitting the target, all your statistics and book knowlege are only a matter for discussion. Find the pistol that you think you want, try it out, and if you want it, buy it. Every one of us God made different and I learned to not buy something without putting it in my hand and making a decision about whether it meets my standard for a" shooter".

I think that is why we come here. If discussion was not important you nor I would be here. But you are so right about trying one out. I did not have that luxury. I was the first one in my area to have the 500 Mag and 460. But it was like you put it, I picked it up and fell in love with it and bought it, but then again I had no choice, I ordered it when I first heard of it.

jro45 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2006, 01:40:29 AM »

Redhawk1 I think you had your 500 about a week maybe less before I had mine. The guys at the range thought that you were me shooting your 500 cause they knew I had my 500 also. So when I saw them I told them that someone else must have one also. 500's are the most powerful handgun in the world and also a lot of fun.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2006, 01:55:20 AM »

Quote from: jro45

Redhawk1 I think you had your 500 about a week maybe less before I had mine. The guys at the range thought that you were me shooting your 500 cause they knew I had my 500 also. So when I saw them I told them that someone else must have one also. 500's are the most powerful handgun in the world and also a lot of fun.

My first one was the BFR in 500 Mag, I got it about 2 months before my S&W 500 Mag came in. S&W was a little slow in getting out the 500 Mag at first and Magnum Research beat them to the punch.

msorenso · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2006, 02:52:18 AM »

I know this a little off the question but how to the ballistics of a 50 ae compare to a 454 casull.. I would love to work up to a 500 s&w what is your suggestions?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2006, 03:34:42 AM »

Quote from: msorenso

I know this a little off the question but how to the ballistics of a 50 ae compare to a 454 casull.. I would love to work up to a 500 s&w what is your suggestions?

It depends on the platform you are shooting to 50AE. The recoil of the Desert Eagle in 50 AE is less in my opinion than a Freedom Arms 454 Casull.

475/480 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2006, 05:40:19 AM »

I would love to work up to a 500 s&w what is your suggestions?

[/quote]

Buy the SW 500 and shoot light handloads untill you build your recoil tolerance.

Sean

msorenso · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2006, 08:39:48 AM »

Thanks guys. Sounds like a plan!

corbanzo · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:47:10 PM »

I'll give my backwoods two cents, and try to not be a scientist :-) I have a .44 mag with a 4" barrel and a .500 with the 8 3/8" barrel with the muzzle brake. The recoil on the .500 is greater of course, you can feel it more straight back on the hand, but that muzzle brake makes it so the snap back on the wrist seems less than that of the .44 mag. If you can shoot a .44mag comfortably, then the .500 shouldn't be too much for you with some getting used to it. After you shoot it once, you realize that it isn't a .50BMG in a pistol, it actually is a pistol round.

msorenso · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2006, 03:29:44 AM »

Thank you! Anyone else please comment

wyocarp · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2006, 02:33:47 PM »

The load, barrel, setup, and bullet weight all make a difference. I don't like shooting my 4" with hot loads and heavy bullets. I also have one that has a scope on it and it seems to come straight back more than my open sight performance center one. But you should know that it is possible to load the .500 so that it is comfortable or becomes comfortable to shoot.