Author Topic: What to do with 'ruined' Handi? (Read 1513 times)

JimG · « **on:** January 01, 2006, 07:23:18 AM »

Let me say this first.

I AND I ONLY SCREWED UP MY .204 HANDI!

Just wanted to say that before the 'anti-handi' guys say "see see another junk gun" or the diehards flame me for blaming NEF/HR. For those who have forgotten and those who don't know, my .204 Handi has gone from acceptable accuracy to crap. I made some changes like a Choate stock and what not but somewhere along the way I did something it did'nt like and that was that. I've tried everything known to man to fix this to no avail. Sooooo.....where do I go from here? I'm giving up on the .204 for starters. I live in IL where centerfires are no legal for hunting except for varmints. I bought the .204 on a whim anyhow. I have a 20 gauge/mod. choke Pardner and a 12 gauge/full choke "088" for shotgunning. A CZ .22lr for small game and plinking. No slug gun though the 20 gauge chucks slugs just fine for a smoothbore. I've got a .40 cal semi-auto carbine and pistol (which shall remain nameless) for defence. A .50 cal older Traditions caplock blackpowder. So do I sell the barrel and Choate stock and send the reciever in for new wood and a different barrel? Cost more than a new one! If I do what caliber? I was thinking an iron sighted 30-30 for grins/giggles but it's really not needed. I need some ideas guys.

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2006, 07:39:53 AM »

Have you proved to yourself you have a totally clean barrel free of copper or jacket fouling? The lighter the bullet, the quicker the accuracy goes away for this very reason. Does it have 500 rounds thru it yet? Refresh our memories quickly on what you have done and maybe you'll refresh your own memory on a mistake. Are you a handloader? Hard to beat a 30-30 for cast bullet shooting on the cheap.

JimG · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2006, 08:02:45 AM »

I think either 27 or 28 boxes of Hornady ammo have gone through it. I clean this gun after every shooting session. I have tried both of the Hornady offering in this caliber. The 32's shot best at first though the 40's were not bad. This all went to heck after I removed the factory wood stock and installed a Choate stock, trigger job, and the like. Not my first NEF so I do have an inkling on what to do. The .204 was ok at p. dogs and chucks at 100-175 yards or so. After that it seemed to really run out of steam on the chucks. Coyotes to 150 were ok also. Some have reported better results than me so your 'mileage' may vary. Not bad just not that great. I was hyped at first but now I don't know. Either way it's irrelavant, I need an accurate gun not a 'project'. So I think I might want to purchase some factory wood and sell the Choate stock. I also might sell the barrel. Send the reciever in for something else. I just am not sure as to what? The .243's are crap shoot fromwhat I can see. I'm not hip on .223's. Know nothing about 22-250's. Can't warm up to a .270 for some reason. A 30-06 or larger in terms of recoil is more than I want to handle anymore. A 30-30 is ok in that regard. I don't have my sheet of barrels the factory offers in front of me so I'm not sure what's all availible. A varmint caliber that could take deer or other 'mid size big game' by simply changing the load would be nice I suppose if I ever go out of state for a hunt. Not likely though.

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2006, 08:31:22 AM »

Since you're on the boards, I would suspect the Choate forearm could be a culprit, and improper follow thru when you squeeze the trigger. It has been stated on these boards that you have to take the trigger thru its complete travel for consistent accuracy. Your habits may have changed after the trigger job as it is now easier to pull. The reason for complete travel is to bring the transfer bar all the way up so the hammer hits the same spot consistently. Variations here cause erratic ignition on the primer. The handi has a long lock time as its weakness.
After that I can appreciate cutting losses and frustration. No Projects.
Factory ammo for the 30-30 is inexpensive and good. You may have to try various brands then buy a large quantity of the lot that works best for you.
Trigger habits will stick with your action irregardless of barrel, so keep that in mind. Good Luck on you decision.

JimG · « **Reply #4 on:** January 01, 2006, 09:18:03 AM »

I don't reload at this time but I am considering it. I cast my own round balls for my muzzleloader and all of my jigs and sinkers for fishing. Soooo....I'm thinking about one of those Lee Classic loader kits for about $20. Add a set of their powder dippers and one of those handheld Lee Auto Primes (only one dipper comes with the Classic set and some people dislike the method of priming the cases with that set) and I'd be in to reloading for about $40. Granted it's only for one caliber but I don't own many guns. I could either cast my own 30-30 bullets or reload pointed bullets for a better BC round. My big question is- what's generally the lightest bullet the rifling in the NEF 30-30 barrels can stabilize? Heck what's the heaviest? I did a brief check and 100 grain and 125 grain bulk bullets are available in .308. I believe .308 is the size needed for a 30-30. I do have a reloading manual I can consult for this though. Is a 100 grain bullet to light for the NEF barrels? Would be good for varmints I suppose. Could then switch to 150 or so grain bullet and load for deer in another state if I so desired. Just some thoughts I have.

mitchell · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2006, 10:53:37 AM »

i don't mean to press the issue , i know you said you done with it, but from the sounds of thing its your stock . have you tried going back to a wood stock?? did you try fully floating it??? don't mean to bug i just hate to see somebody give up on a 204.

as for the 204 running out of steam ,i've never had that, not with the 32's or the 40's , i use a hand load but its not all that faster then the hornadys. with the 32's i killed a lot of P-dogs from 250-350 and some out around 400+ .

lik2hunt · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:02:16 AM »

Is your 204 the fluted or the standard 22" bull? Is your stock aftermarket? I can't see as to where you have stated yet what you did to make it stop shooting good. The things you mentioned should have helped and not hurt it's performance. Did you do some other kind of modifications to the barrel or something? If you haven't done any further modifications to the barrel, then I'll take it off your hands, just PM me the details.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:18:49 AM »

JimG

Sounds to me that when you changed the stocks it changed your grip and in turn changed your trigger pull .

Can you put a wood stock back on to see if this helps . I know that my 223 shoots diffrent when i use my daughter's tamer stock and not my wood .

Also have you pulled the scope and mount off and re-installed them , This could also be causing the problem .

Just some ideas .

trotterlg · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:32:22 AM »

Once you loose confidence in a rifle it is all over. Even if you re-barrel it how do you know it will not have the same problem, another project for you I guess. I had an experience with my 17 Remington barrel, it has the potential for extremely good accuracy, I have a 200 yard target with a group that is 3/4 inch wide but 4 inches tall. Fix the vertical stringing problems and you will have a real shooter, problem is I just couldn't figure it out in the time I have to play with it. I went back to a bolt gun which does not have the types of problems a break action gun has. Larry

mitchell · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2006, 11:39:54 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg

Once you loose confidence in a rifle it is all over.

very true

Norseman112 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2006, 12:18:30 PM »

I would have to say your problem is also stock related if it worked good before you installed the new one. I would check it again or perhaps call the manufacture. I assume you have a good free float? I also understand if you don't want a project. Best of luck to you,

John

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2006, 12:49:08 PM »

I would find a can of WIPEOUT and plug the barrel and fill it full. Let it set overnight. If the patch comes out blue you have copper fouling. Copper fouling will make a good shooting gun shoot like crap in a very short time. Look down your bore real good and see if there are any places the rifling looks washed out. This could be lead fouling. If you have cleaned the bore a lot check the crown and see if it is square all the way around. One nick with a cleaning rod or brush attachment could throw it all off. Use a magnifying glass for close inspection. Sometimes you can clean a barrel too much. Also use a bore light and see if the throat has been washed out. The WIPEOUT is a foaming copper remover and may need several applications before you get a clean patch. Anytime you get a patch with a little blue on it using this product you still have some copper fouling in the bore. The patch should come out almost pure white.

JimG · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2006, 01:16:13 AM »

Well maybe I'm jumping the gun to fast here. I could try buying some factory wood and see if it changes anything. I would have to anyway if I sell the Choate and .204 barrel and keep the receiver like I had intended. I see NEF sells the wood stocks for about $30-35. Does this include the forearm? I didn't see the laminate stocks mentioned, are these also available? As for the trigger job, it really did not lighten the pull much, it just smoothed things out. I've shot it without the forearm on with no real difference in groupings. Changed the location of the groups a little on paper but not the size. That was a real pain to do. Pull the forearm to shoot, re-install to extract empty shell, reload, pull forearm to shoot, etc. I'm not giving up on the NEFs/HRs like some have recently! Just am having doubts about this current setup. I had a thought last night about the hollow Choate stock. I know this is a stretch but could the differences between a basically solid wood stock and a hollow plastic stock effect the the 'harmonics' and 'vibrations' I've always heard about when a gun is shot? I've thought about follow through and what not and I just don't think it's the problem. BTW- it's not the fluted barrel but is the blued bull barrel.

JimG · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2006, 01:18:47 AM »

BTW- I alomost forgot, I DO use the Outers foaming cleaner to remove any fouling after every shooting session. I don't clean any of my other guns this much however do to the fast velocity I felt as though I might get deposits sooner than my other guns.

poncaguy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2006, 04:54:17 AM »

My Fluted Varmit 204 is one of my most accurate Handi's so far. Haven't shot it much or cleaned it yet, still very accurate........

Brett · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2006, 04:55:30 AM »

Take a close look at the crown. Is it possible that it got nicked while cleaning or something? I would think that the bull barrel would not be effected much from switching to the hollow forearm. However the fit of the forearm where it meets the reciever can have a big effect on these guns groups. Does there seem to be any looseness or play in the barel when it is locked up? Is it stiff or difficult to lock up?

DanielWGriggs · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2006, 05:10:31 AM »

Sell it to Like2hunt then send it in and get a 20ga slug barrel and the 50cal muzzle loader barrel. While you are at it how about a .44mag too.

my 2% of a dollar.

ILHunter · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2006, 04:05:23 AM »

JimG
I probably live close to you (east-central IL). I might be interrested in trading you factory wood stocks ( with something else to boot ) for Varmit stocks. Let me know if you are interested and we can talk.
ILHunter

Extremesolo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2006, 06:42:37 AM »

Suprised no one else recommended this but how about sending it in for a 25-06 barrell. This caliber would suit your needs for a varmit/out of state deer rifle rather well. I do not have one but many on here do and they use them effectively on all types of thin skinned gamefrom varmits to deer and pronghorn.

mitchell · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:25:34 AM »

me either i have just about blown them in half at 200+ and on P-dog if it wasn't past 250 you couldn't find any pices to put back together

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2006, 02:16:20 PM »

If all else fails, get the Lee Loader, a loading manual and a powder scale, then load up 5 shot batches of rounds, starting 10% less than the recommended maximum charge. Even lower may be good. Increase the charge by 1/2 grain increments up to max, then take them to the range and shoot each batch by itself. You should see your groups shrinking to what the rifle likes, then opening up again. That will give you your best load for that powder. Vary the types of powder, going through the same routine and compare the groups with what you had before. Eventually you will get the tightest group for the barrrel.

Make sure you hold the rifle in the same position when you shoot. Off the sandbags it is best to support the rifle at the back of the forearm. Check to see if there is anything in the barrel channel of the forearm which is putting pressure on the barrel. I put the NEF plastic stock set on my .30-06 at one time and accuracy went out the window. I tried relieving the channel and putting the rubber washer under it, with no change. Putting the wood back on gave me 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, with a peep sight.

If you are going to get a new barrel which can be used for varmints but also deer, you might want to look at the 7mm-08. Shucks, the .308 with 125 gr. bullets might work out also....

Lots of things to think about. Keep us posted on what you do.

-WH-

rockrat · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2006, 11:40:00 AM »

Why not try a group with the foreend removed and resting on the barrel. Have to be careful when you open it, but this might tell you if there is a problem with the foreend.

Donaldo · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2006, 11:24:29 AM »

Why not change out the scope to one that you know is good, even if you have to borrow one. See you guys, I didn't leave forever. I drift back in now and then just to see if you are all misbehaving properly.

Don.

JimG · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2006, 03:11:15 PM »

Wow! Did'nt this many would be interested. I'll try to answer some Q's. First it's not the varmint type stock. It's the monte carlo butt and the standard forearm. Second I've thought about this long and hard. The first thing I'm doing is calling NEF and seeing if I can't buy a laminated stock set. If I can't I'll buy what came with it originally, the monte carlo 'plain' wood set. Something is nagging at me about this plastic stock. My problems developed when I put the plastic stock on. Not before. After I get the replacement wood stock set I'm going to 'start' all over again. I'll try loads I have not tried this go around, etc. The crown looks ok. Other than what I've already said I have not done anything to it. As for round performance, well lets just say I'm not as impressed as others are. However I'm willing to give the round another chance. I think some maybe comparing apples to oranges though. I DON'T reload. So other peoples 'hot' reloads maybe influencing their feelings about this round. I've been shooting Hornadys factory loads. Maybe I need to switch brands or try reloading to fully appreciate this round? Either way I'm going to try get this gun back to where I started and try again. I shot it today for the last time with the plastic stock. Yes I've tried it without the forearm! 1.5-1.75" groups at 50 yards sucks! Yes only 50 yards. I did'nt have time to drive to the longer private range today.