Author Topic: powerbelt performance pictures (Read 2753 times)

srwshooter · « **on:** January 06, 2006, 08:00:47 AM »

i have killed around 20 deer with the 295pb hp .this is one that did not pass thru ,it was under the hide on the other side.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/srwshooter/pb1.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/srwshooter/pb2.jpg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2006, 09:21:45 AM »

Ya can't complain about that!! :grin:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:40:09 AM »

Looks like it did the job.

JoeG52 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2006, 12:22:03 PM »

Just curious, what was the powder charge behind that?

srwshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:59:45 PM »

100gns 777 pellets shot in my cva hunterbolt. this was the 5th deer that i killed with it this season.

slave · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2006, 03:20:50 PM »

5 dead deer is good enough but what kind of groups do you get with the powerbelts?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2006, 04:04:39 PM »

The 295gr shoot 1½" 100yd groups for me with 120gr 777 2F with my poor eyes and a peep sight on my black diamond.

slave · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2006, 04:45:36 PM »

I know this started out a powerbelt post but was wondering. My 209x50 Encore will not shot them at all. 4" groups at best on a perfect day. We all know each gun has a mind of its own but is this a normal out of a Encore? I love the way powerbelts load and would use them if my rilfe would shot them as well as it shoots any of the .45 + sabot that I have worked with.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2006, 06:11:19 PM »

Well, FWIW, the 275gr shoot just as good if not better in my Super XR .45 Black Diamond.

toecutter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:51:52 AM »

Sorry Slave, I had the exact same experience with my encore and powerbelts. I too love the way they load, but they are lucky to hold six inches at 100. Some friends encores love them, but no dice on mine. I'm kinda glad now anyways, because the xtp's shoot so well and they are sooo much cheaper. If the powerbelts worked well, the xtp's probably wouldn't have (with my luck). Good luck and take care.

poncaguy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:28:09 AM »

My Encore and Omega shoot the 348 Powerbelts real well, 295's around 2", anything lighter won't do well. I use 120 grains of AP FFG and for a reload in the field, 3 777 pellets. 2 does and 1 buck this year, they all dropped like a rock.

srwshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2006, 05:38:27 AM »

I getting 1-1 1/2 grps at 100 yds. with my old cheap cva. this gun and load is as good as i've seen in any ML . I have done some barrel polishing ,which did help my accuratcy . i keep looking at the new ML'S but just can't stop shooting the cva.

Carroll B · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2006, 10:47:21 AM »

I shot my first deer using my Omega this year. Used a 295 gr powerbelt over 100 gr 777. I hit the front shoulder of a button buck that I thought was a doe. The bullet just about took off the front leg, and destroyed both lungs. When my son helped me get the deer onto his ATV his comment was, "you could stick a soda can in the entrance hole". I will say I won't use 777 next year as I couldn't get the second PB down the barrel without pounding on the ram rod. I'll go back to Pyrodex where I know I can get off the second shot if needed.

elkstalkr · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:18:25 AM »

Quote from: srwshooter

this is one that did not pass thru ,it was under the hide on the other side.

I have experienced the same "problem" with my powerbelts. especially the hollow points. that is why i am changing loads next year.

srwshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2006, 01:16:20 PM »

elkstalkr,why would that make you change loads,all the deer i have shot died within 50yds. i could care less if the bullet went all the way thru. i think the hollow points shoot better grps

elkstalkr · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2006, 04:26:46 AM »

because I lost one deer this year due to no exit wound and so did my buddy. We were hunting forested area with tall grass, both deer probably expired within 100 yards, but we never found the things because thier was no blood trail!

Actually I found my buddies deer a month later while out stalking.

gleason.chapman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2006, 07:17:08 AM »

Quote from: srwshooter

i have killed around 20 deer with the 295pb hp .this is one that did not pass thru ,it was under the hide on the other side.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/srwshooter/pb1.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/srwshooter/pb2.jpg

In response to the above, those are nice mushrooms, and almost any bullet will work on thin skined deer in the ribs. However if you hit a big buck in the shoulder with one of these PB HP you will NOT get the animal. I have done that, and I switched from 295 PB HP to Nosler Partitions 300g Jacket Protected Point with a Harvester Split Rib sabot for my TC Omega and my Knight Disc. If you read the August 2005 issue of Muzzleloader Shooting and Hunting Magazine, a well know author (Mann I beieve was his last name) shot different bullets into wet news paper for penetration, the PB only went in 7", if you take 100 yard shots at whitetail, my experience is that you should NOT use this bullet, since you can't guarantee you will hit "behind the ribs" and not in the shoulder. 50 yard shots, no problem, have at it with PB. Elk, moose demand a penetrating bullet. If you wear glasses as I do, are shooting off hand as I am, and your aim is "not perfect", then do the animal a favor and hit him with a
bullet that will penetrate rather than expand. People choose the PB because of ease of loading, but penetration should be considered also in bullet selection with a muzzleloader.
Chap Gleason

gully1441 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2006, 04:37:38 AM »

If easy loading is what you are after T/C is offering a "super glide" sabot for the shockwaves as well as bonded. they went from a 4 pedal to a 2 pedal sabot. the 4 pedal sabots takes about 7-8 lbs of pressure to load, the super glides are down to 3.4 lbs (w/in ounces of power belts). I have seen film of power belts being tested in ballistic jelly, test results show the bullet braking apart on contact and never actually penetrating at all.

elkstalkr · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2006, 05:06:12 AM »

Quote from: gleason.chapman

However if you hit a big buck in the shoulder with one of these PB HP you will NOT get the animal.

I agree with this statement. Just not enough penetration, at least not enough to make me confident.

Busta · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2006, 07:48:15 AM »

The PowerBelt IS the most loved/hated bullet in muzzleloading bar-none! It is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. I personally don't like them for a BIG GAME hunting projectile and I feel we owe the animals we hunt a quick clean kill. Now I am not saying that this bullet is not capable of a quick clean kill, but it is not capable in every instance such as a hit to the shoulder. I have witnessed a nightmare first hand at 28 yards on a monster bull my hunting partner shot with the 295 grain PowerBelt.

The 348 grain and up PowerBelts are a much better choice if you must hunt with this type of projectile. The hollow point is too deep for the lighter weight bullets. I have shot numerous muzzleloading projectiles into different types of media, most of the PowerBelts either fragmented, exploded or simply flattened out like a pancake and did not penetrate. IMHO, you do not need a hollow point in a lead bullet for hunting big game period. The hollow point is the same depth in all the bullets and in the lighter weights does not leave enough mass to penetrate if heavy bone is hit. The PowerBelt IS NOT a copper jacketed bullet, it is copper plated at best. At obturation the bullet bellies out into the rifling, the rifling will actually score through the copper.

I won't dispute the fact that several thousands of deer are taken with this very popular projectile every year. What you don't usually get to read are the failures that happen every year with this bullet. I will say that I believe you will see a big decline in the sales of this bullet over the next few years. Once you witness one of the failures or do some penetration tests with this bullet, you will understand.

I went and dug up an old discussion on the PowerBelt, just in case anyone is inerested in reading it. The nightmare about the elk is in there.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=453023&highlight=powerbelt#453023

J.P. Harrington · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2006, 04:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Busta

The PowerBelt IS the most loved/hated bullet in muzzleloading bar-none! . . . I personally don't like them for a BIG GAME hunting projectile and I feel we owe the animals we hunt a quick clean kill. . .

Even though I have limited ML experience, I have to agree with Busta. We as sportsmen must do everything we can to take game quickly and cleanly. This means placing a killing a shot with a killer bullet. The PB is, IMHO, not the best choice. We have no farther to look than this very thread:

Quote from: elkstalkr

because I lost one deer this year due to no exit wound and so did my buddy. We were hunting forested area with tall grass, both deer probably expired within 100 yards, but we never found the things because thier was no blood trail!

Actually I found my buddies deer a month later while out stalking.

I keep trying to learn and understand the variables of bullet "terminal performance". I think that there's an important factor -- Sectional Density.

This measurement is important because it give us a good idea of what a bullet will do at impact.
"Sectional density (SD) is defined as the weight of a bullet (in pounds) divided by the square of its diameter (in inches)." (http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_SD_list.htm) For instance, a .50 cal., 245 grain PB has an SD of .140. A 300 grain PB has .171.

It seems that there's a minimum magic number (within the context of ML velocities): .210 (http://members.aol.com/randymagic/ballltd108.htm) I'm not willing to buy into "minimum magic numbers" but my own experience is in line with the premise.

WARNING!!! The following description is graphic and may not be suitable for young folks or the faint of heart.

I shot a smallish whitetail doe last year at about 25 yards with a 240 grain, .40 cal. PR Dead Center (SD = .214). It was a frontal, quartering shot. When hit, the deer almost landed on its rump but recovered instantly and ran about 15 - 20 yards. I thought that I had winged its right front shoulder as the deer was dragging that leg, dangling it actually, as it ran. It made it that small distance and then dropped hard. Dead.

When I opened up the boiler room the right lung was nothing but mush. The left lung had some crush, but it was obvious that the bullet traveled downward and went straight through the long axis of the heart. The hole was large enough to pass my index finger through.

What I couldn't figure out then was how that animal's leg got hurt so badly. It was only later, when butchering, that it became clear. The front shoulder was not hit by the bullet, but dislocated. Hydraulic shock did it -- the pressure wave from the bullet blew the leg socket out of it's joint.

Velocity is important -- that's energy. It's what a bullet does with that energy that makes the difference between a stocked freezer and a bad day.

srwshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:29:30 PM »

i think your wrong about the powerbelt not killing a big buck , i shot one a few years ago a 110 yds in the front part of the shoulder blade ,the bullet went thru the blade and up along the spine took out 2 vertabre and then broke the bone in the hind quarter on the other side and lay just under the hide . if theses bullets will hit 4 bones and still stayed together it will kill any whitetail. oh, that deer weighed in field dressed at 192lbs. i see about 100 dead deer every year . most of the guys that i hunt with use the same bullet and i've seen very few that didn't perform well when hit in the right place.

i have seen the aerotip bp fail to expand at times. there are lots of ml bullets on market that i think are way to hard. they don't expand at all sometimes.

i shot 180grn 50 cal barnes hp into a pile of cataloges that i ducktaped together at 75yds and you could almost get them back down the barrel
again , they didn't change at all. i dont see how a hp could do this. but they did shot after shot.

WylieKy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2006, 02:15:26 PM »

I killed a 120 lb doe in Ohio 3 seasons ago, used 295 grn HP PB in front of 90 grn of Pyrodex. I took a 35 yrd shoulder shot to drop her. (I was hunting in very hilly country in Orgonia, Oh by myself and did not want to drag her out of a 35-40 ft deep ravine.) The PB demolished both shoulders and all in between, then drove about an inch into a mulberry tree behind her. I don't know how much energy it takes to drive something the diameter of a quarter at least an inch into a mulberry tree, but if it can do so after passing through both shoulders of a large doe, I think it has enough umph to take care of a large buck. Just my opinion.

However, I will probably work up a new load for next season. Given the wide variety of results, I wonder if it may be a quality control type issue, and it would suck to lose a good deer to a poor bullett. It's also as good an excuse as I can think of to go to the range. :grin: Thanks guys!

WylieKy

srwshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 11, 2006, 12:20:35 AM »

i think at the speed ML'S shoot you will always have a few bullets that don't perform well. its going to depend on the angle a bullet hits bone.

powerbelt's to me out perform most muzzle loader bullets , there are alot of hunters trying to stretch the distance of a ML . they are sitting themselves up for bullet failure trying to shoot to far for the speed of these bullets. within the right range a deer is not hard to kill if you hit it in the vitals. i find most times with a 295 pb the bullet weight takes them down on impact. i'm not a fan of real lite weight bullets in a ML.

nomosendero · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2006, 03:26:44 PM »

Sectional Density is very important in regards to penetration, along with
construction & velocity, this is just plain physics. Even though a short for
caliber bullet will penetrate well sometimes, I want a bullet to do so every time. As pointed out earlier, the 295 is short for caliber & as earlier stated,
I would want to look at the 348Gr & above. Think about how much more sectional density a 45cal. 300 Gr. bullet has in a sabot than these 295 Gr.
50 cal. bullets. It is not even close. Which can penetrate better, an expanded projectile with alot of shank left over or a flat washer.

The 295 would shoot decent in my Encore but the 348 would not. I had my
doubts about using the 295 so I contacted PowerBelt Bullet Co. via e-mail.
I asked about Sectional Density & Penetration of the 295 & they never replied. That spoke volumes to me. In one area I hunt, I can get a chance at a Big Buck, Black Bear or a Big Hog in the same hunt & this is the reason for my concern.

But results are results & for you they are working & that IS what counts.
Thanks for providing the pictures!!

NimrodRx · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:10:30 PM »

Unless saboted bullets are not legal in your state out of a ML, I can think of no reason to use a powerbelt. A conicle bullet is a step backward in design. There are SO many bullets that are superior.

I don't care what you shoot. But don't think for a minute that powerbelts are a "big game" bullet. I know, I know, "I killed 3 dozen deer with the PB." So what! That accounts for nothing. Really. 30-40 deer, that's what you're basing your opinion on.....

Quit being so brand loyal and start doing some real investigation. Some times ya just have to cut your losses.

poncaguy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:06:02 AM »

I wish Nosler or some other company would come out with one of their bullets with the snap on cup behind it. I have good results with the 348 PB's,and love their ease of loading, but would switch in a second if someone else would produce a better PB type setup with a bettter bullet design.

srwshooter · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:26:38 PM »

nimrod ,i'm telling you we have tried most everything on the market and powerbelt out perform most everything i've seen. when you go to a saboted bullet you are trying to shoot to far for ml in most cases. everyone wants a ml to shoot like a rifle so they try lite sabots . i don't think they perform as well, and yes i base my opinion on killing deer . thats what i bought a ml for.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #28 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:45:45 PM »

I shoot a 300gr saboted bullet over 100gr of loose T7. My shots range from point blank to 100 yards. I have killed deer at 140 yrds with this combo, but it is the exception, not the rule. I am not looking for a ML that performs like a center fire rifle. What I am looking for is a bullet that provides deep, straight line penetration with minimal weight loss and maximum expansion - regardless of the "rifle" I'm firing it out of. The PB does not do this consistantly - period. And by consistantly, I mean 300 deer, not 30.

Don't take my word for it. Start shooting your bulllets through wet phone books. See what happens. Save a little money and pick up a back issue of Shooting Times. PBs finished dead last in terms of penetration and weight retention.

Will they kill deer? Heck yah. Deer are relatively easy to kill. However, I prefer to leave as little to chance as possible.

The mere fact that there these bullets are so controversial should tell you something....

slave · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2006, 07:03:17 AM »

With my set up I would not consider taking a shot at a deer over 75yds with any of the pb's I have expermented with. My grouping indicates a 50% chance of a gut shot or if I am lucky a clean miss. I never considerd how effective or ineffective they may be because I could not hit anything with them to start with.