Author Topic: Moose gun (Read 1657 times)

AK Fireman · « **on:** January 07, 2006, 02:35:29 PM »

I have a CZ 550/416 Rigby. Currently it is at Mcmillan for a Mcale stock and then off to Robar for a soak in the NP3. I shot about 150rds before I spotted the CRACK!
I should have It back any day and I am looking forward to shooting it again. I bought this gun after many months of researching "Big Bores", I know that the 416 is not considered a big boar to some because it is not a 45caliber or larger but after ballistic comparisons to the more common Big guns 378 weatherby, 416rem, 458, 458 lott, 460weatherby, I found that the 416 rigby can really out perform these other calibers at a range of 150yds or greater in terms of trajectory and energy this is with the now discontinued 325gr Barnes.
I know that the 416 rigby is not a gun that comes to mind when you think of long range, but I am interested in seeing how flat and how much energy can be delivered 600yrds. My drive is to have the ultimate moose gun.
Does anyone know where I can get some 325gr Barnes X / 416 cal.
Thanks for your thoughts.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2006, 03:52:48 PM »

AK Fireman

Welcome to GBO, I think you will enjoy the comorodary (sp) here. I too shoot a 416 but its a Remington, Also shoot a 375 Weatherby and love them both. Not too sure about the 325 Bullets you were talking about but I am sure there will be some one jump in and add to the conversation, Have a good day

...............Joe...............

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:21:26 PM »

Take a look at the 300 gr. Barnes X bullets. I took a water buffalo with my 416 Rigby at 135 yards with one shot. Unless you did not get good accuracy with the 300 gr. Barnes X I don't see why they would not be a great Moose bullet.

I also have a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby with the hogback stock. Mine is at the gunsmith getting glassbedded and free floating the barrel. I should be getting it back soon an off to the range I go.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2006, 10:01:26 PM »

Ive been loading the 300gr Barnes with great results and have no doubt that this will do a great job. But with a very small sacrifice of trajectory I could gain more energy that improves with distance with the 325gr. I found this information in the 416 rigby ballistic tables of http://www.cpcartridge.com/
Ive checked there data against my reloading books and have found them to be correct.
This is also where I was able to compare the 416 rigby against some other large calibers and was surprised at how well this unbelted case that has the reputation of being a less than hot round do to low chamber pressure. Check out the muzzle energy and down range energy of the 325gr, also look at the velocity/drop starting at 300yds and compare it to the lighter 300gr Barnes. I can't find a caliber with as good, across the board ballistics.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2006, 01:20:16 AM »

AK Fireman, contact Barnes and ask them if they can make you some. I know in the past if you have a minimum order of 500 they will make you some. It would not hurt to call them. Barnes has been very good about that in the past.

gwindrider1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2006, 04:50:15 AM »

But be prepared to write a very large check! lol! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2006, 10:24:13 AM »

Quote from: gwindrider1

But be prepared to write a very large check! lol! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

No matter who you go to, it is going to cost if you want them to make it for you.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2006, 01:14:37 PM »

I talked with http://www.lostriverballistic.com/ They will design a 325gr J36 for $75.00 and a minimum order of 200rds. Not a bad deal, but I have read some negative things about there bullets, I'll probably order some of there 350gr that they claim will shoot 3000 fps at the muzzle, just to see how the J36 shoots.

45north · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2006, 12:07:53 AM »

Well it sounds to me like you want to snipe some swamp donkey by sitting on top of a hill and waiting for the bull to pass by. In the olden days they used to walk around in the woods or float the rivers for moose but that was called hunting.
If you want a real long range moose gun then I would look at a 50 cal BMG.

45north

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2006, 02:35:52 AM »

Quote from: 45north

Well it sounds to me like you want to snipe some swamp donkey by sitting on top of a hill and waiting for the bull to pass by. In the olden days they used to walk around in the woods or float the rivers for moose but that was called hunting.
If you want a real long range moose gun then I would look at a 50 cal BMG.

45north

I don't see a thing wrong with him wanting to use a 416 Rigby.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2006, 08:57:28 AM »

Quote from: 45north

Well it sounds to me like you want to snipe some swamp donkey by sitting on top of a hill and waiting for the bull to pass by. In the olden days they used to walk around in the woods or float the rivers for moose but that was called hunting.
If you want a real long range moose gun then I would look at a 50 cal BMG.

45north

I just want a load that has alot of energy and still shoots relatively flat.
I hunt very near your location in Tok, and as you know it's not very practical to walk around looking for the swamp donkeys. I usually hunt from my 4 wheeler or Argo or we float the rivers, I do find my self glassing from any high atvantage point , I think the old timers called that kind of hunting spot and stalk.
My party and I have taken a half dozen bulls in the last 3 seasons, all bulls were atleast 50" and were all taken with 300 win mag. Only one of these bulls did not get up after being knocked down with the first shot and he was a 56" at 20 yards. All shots were lung/lung shots and would have done the job if we wanted to wait for the animal to fall.
I want a load that will produce a reaction from a moose like my 300 win mag will give on a mule deer.
As for the sniping comment, I dont see any problem in taking a long shot if conditions are right and the shooter is competent at that distance.

I did look into a 50cal but it wasn't a practical rifle for my style of hunting.

Con · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2006, 01:18:38 PM »

Have you considered the Woodleigh 335gr PP? Even when pushed they hold together.
Cheers...
Con

nasem · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2006, 02:24:51 PM »

dang, 600 yards with a 416 rig

If you wanna be able to shoot past 400-500 yards AND shoot accurately to take down game, you need the following:
1) lots of bullets
2) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice)
3) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice ALOT)

now for 600 yards....
4) LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF bullets (to practice more)

Im not saying that 416 is a bad idea, what im saying is, 416 is not something your gonna want to put 100+ rounds a day just so You can practice shooting past 500 yards, thats alot of recoil.

Seriously, if I was you, I would look for a caliber that is designed for long range shots and is capable of taking down moose at over 500 yards, look into the 300 win mag. and if you think thats too small look into the 300 RUM, 300 wby mag, 7mm wby mag (my fav long ranger).......

45north · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2006, 03:15:07 PM »

Well said,
most people can not afford to spend that kind of money on ammo and range time to become profficient enough with a 416 at long range.

45north

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:39:15 PM »

I do have to agree with those above, I think 200 yards is very doable but past that there are better choices.

wyocarp · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2006, 07:13:46 AM »

I agree with most of the responses above. I have never seen a problem with using too much gun. I have seen some big moose act like you just hit them with a spit wad and so I wouldn't ever fault someone for using a large bore on them. But I don't think that 600 yards is reasonable. I know of someone who shot an elk from further than 600 yards with a BMG this past year. That isn't hunting in my book! I'm not sure that even half that distance is reasonable for a .416. But then again these are our opinions.

nasem · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2006, 08:28:27 AM »

600 yards with a BMG ?? did the moose pop ? cause I dont' think there would be anything left

msorenso · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2006, 03:42:21 PM »

What caliber do most guys use moose hunting 300 win 338 win 270, 30-06?

nasem · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2006, 05:01:58 PM »

never gone moose hunting, but I would prefer 338 wm if all my shots are under 300, past 300..... Heck I woun't even try to shoot, I only practice up to 300 yards

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2006, 05:03:49 PM »

Quote from: msorenso

What caliber do most guys use moose hunting 300 win 338 win 270, 30-06?

I would use my 338 Win Mag.

358Win · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2006, 07:19:47 PM »

A moose gun.

Well If you limit your shots to 250 yards or less then the 358 Winchester would be my first pick. With the 250 grain Nosler you can get 2,350 fps pretty easy and the low recoil and muzzle blast have to be felt to be believed. That improves my shooting quite a bit.

If you are willing to accept the risk of trying longer shots, say 350 yards max. then I'd have to go with the 35 Whelen. Past 350 yards is pretty much a get closer situation. The only circumstance that would be OK to take shoots at those ranges would be at an already wounded animal. The Whelen should be able to push the Nosler bullet at 2,600 fps. More speed than that is not neccessary and can actually cause problems at very close rangess.

jro45 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2006, 03:34:31 AM »

I would use my 338 RUM shooting 300 gr RN bullets and wouldn't shoot beyond 150 yds. My top velocity is 2720 with these.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:32:42 PM »

Ladies, ladies , I thought this was a Big Bore forum.
Here is a quote from my earlier post.
"I know that the 416 rigby is not a gun that comes to mind when you think of long range, but I am interested in seeing how flat and how much energy can be delivered 600yrds. My drive is to have the ultimate moose gun. "
This does not say that I going to shoot a moose at 600yrds. I think a realistic limit on a moose is 300yrds, 400yrds if the conditions are really good and you are sure of the distance and know exactly what your bullet drop will be.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dang, 600 yards with a 416 rig

If you wanna be able to shoot past 400-500 yards AND shoot accurately to take down game, you need the following:
1) lots of bullets
2) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice)
3) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice ALOT)

now for 600 yards....
4) LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF bullets (to practice more)

Im not saying that 416 is a bad idea, what im saying is, 416 is not something your gonna want to put 100+ rounds a day just so You can practice shooting past 500 yards, thats alot of recoil.

Seriously, if I was you, I would look for a caliber that is designed for long range shots and is capable of taking down moose at over 500 yards, look into the 300 win mag. and if you think thats too small look into the 300 RUM, 300 wby mag, 7mm wby mag (my fav long ranger).......

Why would this require any more "practice" than shooting at 250yds. The only thing your going to do different is hold the cross hairs higher than normal. (After it leaves the barrel its up to the variables)
After a bullet has left the barrel different variables like wind,air temp,humidity etc.. affect its point of impact. We try to over come this by minimizing the time it is in the air. We can also use a projectile that has a high BC (balistic coefficient). The weight of the bullet can improve the accuracy by not being pushed around by the elements as much as its lighter cousins.
The calibers you have mentioned are all excellent choices for longer shots, they all have great velocities and BCs but can be limited by there weight.
The 416 rigby with a 300-325-350gr barnes can have impressive velocity,BC and weight. = good long range bullet behavior.
If it takes anyone a 100rds a day to stay efficient at 500yds they should sell there guns and take up a much easier hobby like knitting.
Recoil is in the eye of the beholder, I have tamed the recoil with going to a heavier stock. It still kicks but doesn't leave me feeling like I just had a seizure.
I reload so price is greatly improved but still more than my 300win mag, this is great incentive to not miss the target.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do have to agree with those above, I think 200 yards is very doable but past that there are better choices.
Shame on you!
Give some fact based opions why you would say such blaspheme.

Everyone should question the traditions they were taught by there fathers fathers father once in awhile and really look at the things from a different angle.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:35:35 PM »

Ladies, ladies , I thought this was a Big Bore forum.
Here is a quote from my earlier post.
"I know that the 416 rigby is not a gun that comes to mind when you think of long range, but I am interested in seeing how flat and how much energy can be delivered 600yrds. My drive is to have the ultimate moose gun. "
This does not say that I going to shoot a moose at 600yrds. I think a realistic limit on a moose is 300yrds, 400yrds if the conditions are really good and you are sure of the distance and know exactly what your bullet drop will be.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dang, 600 yards with a 416 rig

If you wanna be able to shoot past 400-500 yards AND shoot accurately to take down game, you need the following:
1) lots of bullets
2) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice)
3) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice ALOT)

now for 600 yards....
4) LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF bullets (to practice more)

Im not saying that 416 is a bad idea, what im saying is, 416 is not something your gonna want to put 100+ rounds a day just so You can practice shooting past 500 yards, thats alot of recoil.

Seriously, if I was you, I would look for a caliber that is designed for long range shots and is capable of taking down moose at over 500 yards, look into the 300 win mag. and if you think thats too small look into the 300 RUM, 300 wby mag, 7mm wby mag (my fav long ranger).......

Why would this require any more "practice" than shooting at 250yds. The only thing your going to do different is hold the cross hairs higher than normal. (After it leaves the barrel its up to the variables)
After a bullet has left the barrel different variables like wind,air temp,humidity etc.. affect its point of impact. We try to over come this by minimizing the time it is in the air. We can also use a projectile that has a high BC (balistic coefficient). The weight of the bullet can improve the accuracy by not being pushed around by the elements as much as its lighter cousins.
The calibers you have mentioned are all excellent choices for longer shots, they all have great velocities and BCs but can be limited by there weight.
The 416 rigby with a 300-325-350gr barnes can have impressive velocity,BC and weight. = good long range bullet behavior.
If it takes anyone a 100rds a day to stay efficient at 500yds they should sell there guns and take up a much easier hobby like knitting.
Recoil is in the eye of the beholder, I have tamed the recoil with going to a heavier stock. It still kicks but doesn't leave me feeling like I just had a seizure.
I reload so price is greatly improved but still more than my 300win mag, this is great incentive to not miss the target.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do have to agree with those above, I think 200 yards is very doable but past that there are better choices.
Shame on you!
Give some fact based opions why you would say such blaspheme.

Everyone should question the traditions they were taught by there fathers fathers father once in awhile and really look at the things from a different angle.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:42:13 PM »

Ladies, ladies , I thought this was a Big Bore forum.
Here is a quote from my earlier post.
"I know that the 416 rigby is not a gun that comes to mind when you think of long range, but I am interested in seeing how flat and how much energy can be delivered 600yrds. My drive is to have the ultimate moose gun. "
This does not say that I going to shoot a moose at 600yrds. I think a realistic limit on a moose is 300yrds, 400yrds if the conditions are really good and you are sure of the distance and know exactly what your bullet drop will be.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dang, 600 yards with a 416 rig

If you wanna be able to shoot past 400-500 yards AND shoot accurately to take down game, you need the following:
1) lots of bullets
2) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice)
3) lots of bullets (cause your gonna need to practice ALOT)

now for 600 yards....
4) LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF bullets (to practice more)

Im not saying that 416 is a bad idea, what im saying is, 416 is not something your gonna want to put 100+ rounds a day just so You can practice shooting past 500 yards, thats alot of recoil.

Seriously, if I was you, I would look for a caliber that is designed for long range shots and is capable of taking down moose at over 500 yards, look into the 300 win mag. and if you think thats too small look into the 300 RUM, 300 wby mag, 7mm wby mag (my fav long ranger).......

Why would this require any more "practice" than shooting at 250yds. The only thing your going to do different is hold the cross hairs higher than normal. (After it leaves the barrel its up to the variables)
After a bullet has left the barrel different variables like wind,air temp,humidity etc.. affect its point of impact. We try to over come this by minimizing the time it is in the air. We can also use a projectile that has a high BC (balistic coefficient). The weight of the bullet can improve the accuracy by not being pushed around by the elements as much as its lighter cousins.
The calibers you have mentioned are all excellent choices for longer shots, they all have great velocities and BCs but can be limited by there weight.
The 416 rigby with a 300-325-350gr barnes can have impressive velocity,BC and weight. = good long range bullet behavior.
If it takes anyone a 100rds a day to stay efficient at 500yds they should sell there guns and take up a much easier hobby like knitting.
Recoil is in the eye of the beholder, I have tamed the recoil with going to a heavier stock. It still kicks but doesn't leave me feeling like I just had a seizure.
I reload so price is greatly improved but still more than my 300win mag, this is great incentive to not miss the target.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do have to agree with those above, I think 200 yards is very doable but past that there are better choices.
Shame on you!
Give some fact based opions why you would say such blaspheme.

Everyone should question the traditions they were taught by there fathers fathers father once in awhile and really look at the things from a different angle.