Author Topic: paper cartridges  (Read 733 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lil_hunter12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
paper cartridges
« on: January 15, 2006, 07:15:22 AM »
what kind of paper and glue do i need to make them and can i also put in a wad somehow.

thanks ahead of time for any info u may give me

Offline long

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
paper cartridges
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2006, 02:17:07 AM »
long discussion of it here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144094
The originator  uses balls but farther down the more correct bullet/cartridges get some mention.  Most people use cigarette papers for the body of the cartridges.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32450&d=1134274798

Offline lil_hunter12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
paper cartridges
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2006, 03:14:14 AM »
can any kind of thin paper be used for these even if not cig.rolling papers

Offline lil_hunter12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
paper cartridges
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2006, 03:53:02 AM »
how safe is it to experiment with different kinds of thin household papers

Offline long

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
paper cartridges
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2006, 11:01:06 AM »
The danger would come from having smoldering paper left in the chamber when you reload.  Could set off the new cartridge.  Old revolver cartridges from the 1850s were made of foil and probably had to be dug out after firing.  Un-nitrated paper will probably just stay in the chamber and may retain embers.  The same could be true of nitrated paper that doesn't completely burn.  

Hi Yield stump remover is mostly potassium nitrate.  You mix it with water and melt it thoroughly on the stove, strain it into a container and later pour off the water to leave the crystals in the bottom.  Various thin papers soake in this will dry with a rough surface- the nitrate.  These papers consume when hit with black powder.  Areas covered with white or other glue for affixing the bullet may or may not be consumed and may or may not retain some fire for a while after firing.  By and Large, the paper around the bevel of the bullet makes loading these things something of a chore.

Offline Bear Rider

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 115
paper cartridges
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 05:21:12 PM »
I found one trick for carrying cartridges in the field.

Cut a section of kitchen aluminum foil 2 1/2 to 3 times wider than the lengh of your cartridges and about 1 1/2 longer than six cartridges laid side by side. Lay your cartridges in a line in the center of the foil, fold the top and bottom. and then roll up the ends. You now have a package that will take a lot of abuse. I normally just throw four or five of these in a belt pouch for a day's shooting. I don't have to give them a thought until it's time to use them.

I recycle most of my foil from refrigerator leftovers. Just rinse it off and let it dry. It's good enough for this.
Flintlock! Anything else is imitation.

Offline Dalton Masterson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 121
    • Plum Creek Leather Works
paper cartridges
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2006, 01:41:14 PM »
" 44 Cal Combustible Cartridges
Some of this is to your preference, so I will tell you what I did and you can take it from there.
For the 44cal cartridges I use Bugler cigarette papers they measure roughly 1 1/2" x 2 3/4" . A piece of a 7/16" dowel stick long enough to handle, (at least 6"),  Saltpetre, an Elmer's glue stick, and scissors. Optional things Dehydrator with sheet plastic for fruit roll-ups.
(For 36 cal. I use a 3/8" dowel and for 31 cal. I use a 5/16 dowel)
Against the steel rule you can see the approximate length of the dowels(mine are too short) and the taper this is the part where you need to find your own preference. You want the taper to allow you a good angle to load and to create a "paper cup" just big enough to hold your powder charge and hold it tight, a lose powder bag will rip easier than a tight one.
Keep in mind here you may have to revamp the shape of the dowel after a few tries so it will work better......I think I went through 4 or so...........
 
 
 
OK, her we go, break out about twelve papers, mix up a solution of Saltpetre and water, about 1 cup of water and two teaspoons of the Saltpetre, and lay the papers flat in the solution so they wont bunch up. This will be the toughest part of this whole thing. After about an hour very carefully, with a set of tweezers or something of that order, pull the papers out one at a time and place them on the Fruit Roll-up sheet in the dehydrator or on a sheet of wax paper and let them dry. Sounds simple enough but don't cuss me when you try it. Dry time in the Dehydrator is about 15 - 20 minutes on the wax paper I guess it depends on the day. I do a whole book of papers just to get it out of the way and put them in a Ziploc bag, you will ruin some papers but keep them you will need them later. Don't do any more than 12 at a time it's too much to handle.
    Insert Picture of tool and components here.........
After you get all the papers done you might need to smooth some of them out a little, I used the steel rule in the picture and drug it lightly across the top of the paper and against a hard smooth surface like the kitchen counter tops, again you will see what you can get away with, just go easy.  I then cut my papers to 1 1/2" x a sliver over 1", again yours may be different due to a smaller powder charge or whatever. What you want to wind up with is about 1/16th " fold over on the base of the "cup" we are making. We now take the papers that were cut and carefully wrap them around the dowel and glue the seam with the glue stick, with it tapered the bottom will overlap a little extra don't worry that's fine . Once that's done out of the extra paper left over or out of  the ruined papers cut a 3/8 x 3/8" square  and glue it to the bottom of the cup.   Hopefully this drawing will help a little?                                                              
 
 Insert Drawings here......      
 
I cut a lot of these squares at one time. What this does is form a cup which will hold the powder but is thin enough to let the cap blow through this is the secret to the whole thing, most "Paper Cartridges" made are twisted at the end or all folded up and even if you use a pick the cap cannot flame past it all. This method cures that.
Make a handful of the cups and then move on, later when you have figured out the correct "cup" you can mass produce them . I have about 1000 cups extra and the slugs and periodically when I need them I powder them and put them together.
Any way, make your powder charges, I do this one at a time to prevent mishaps, and I throw 30 gn 3F Black from my flask into the cup and tap it down . I then take a slug made with Lee Precisions 200gn Conical, cap and ball mould put glue around the base and put it in the top of the cup. This sounds a little difficult but go slow the glue softens the paper a little and it usually slips right over with a slight twisting motion, at this point square the bullet out and let them dry over night. you can also substitute round balls at this point but grease over them after loading.
 
  http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/285116   This is the Bullet mould.
 
Last of all, I took the Bees Wax/Crisco mix we use with BP and wiped it into the exposed grease groove working towards the nose as not to get any on the paper.
Now your ready to shoot, it's my understanding that enough contact is made on the sides of this slug that you don't have to put lube over the top like balls.
 
 
When loading these animals will be a little snug getting them under the ram sometimes , if you push firmly, straight down they will pop down a little more and have more room  if you need it, with round balls you wont have this problem. "
 
I took this from my pard, Sgt John Chapman. He makes beautiful paper cart. You can probably go the the Frontier spot, or to the Open Range forum and find his post with pictures. Good luck. DM

Offline Dalton Masterson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 121
    • Plum Creek Leather Works
paper cartridges
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2006, 01:54:42 PM »
44 Cal Combustible Cartridges
Some of this is to your preference, so I will tell you what I did and you can take it from there.
For the 44cal cartridges I use Bugler cigarette papers they measure roughly 1 1/2" x 2 3/4" . A piece of a 7/16" dowel stick long enough to handle, (at least 6"),  Saltpetre, an Elmer's glue stick, and scissors. Optional things Dehydrator with sheet plastic for fruit roll-ups.
(For 36 cal. I use a 3/8" dowel and for 31 cal. I use a 5/16 dowel)
Against the steel rule you can see the approximate length of the dowels(mine are too short) and the taper this is the part where you need to find your own preference. You want the taper to allow you a good angle to load and to create a "paper cup" just big enough to hold your powder charge and hold it tight, a lose powder bag will rip easier than a tight one.
Keep in mind here you may have to revamp the shape of the dowel after a few tries so it will work better......I think I went through 4 or so...........
 
 
 
OK, her we go, break out about twelve papers, mix up a solution of Saltpetre and water, about 1 cup of water and two teaspoons of the Saltpetre, and lay the papers flat in the solution so they wont bunch up. This will be the toughest part of this whole thing. After about an hour very carefully, with a set of tweezers or something of that order, pull the papers out one at a time and place them on the Fruit Roll-up sheet in the dehydrator or on a sheet of wax paper and let them dry. Sounds simple enough but don't cuss me when you try it. Dry time in the Dehydrator is about 15 - 20 minutes on the wax paper I guess it depends on the day. I do a whole book of papers just to get it out of the way and put them in a Ziploc bag, you will ruin some papers but keep them you will need them later. Don't do any more than 12 at a time it's too much to handle.
    Insert Picture of tool and components here.........
After you get all the papers done you might need to smooth some of them out a little, I used the steel rule in the picture and drug it lightly across the top of the paper and against a hard smooth surface like the kitchen counter tops, again you will see what you can get away with, just go easy.  I then cut my papers to 1 1/2" x a sliver over 1", again yours may be different due to a smaller powder charge or whatever. What you want to wind up with is about 1/16th " fold over on the base of the "cup" we are making. We now take the papers that were cut and carefully wrap them around the dowel and glue the seam with the glue stick, with it tapered the bottom will overlap a little extra don't worry that's fine . Once that's done out of the extra paper left over or out of  the ruined papers cut a 3/8 x 3/8" square  and glue it to the bottom of the cup.   Hopefully this drawing will help a little?                                                              
 
 Insert Drawings here......      
 
I cut a lot of these squares at one time. What this does is form a cup which will hold the powder but is thin enough to let the cap blow through this is the secret to the whole thing, most "Paper Cartridges" made are twisted at the end or all folded up and even if you use a pick the cap cannot flame past it all. This method cures that.
Make a handful of the cups and then move on, later when you have figured out the correct "cup" you can mass produce them . I have about 1000 cups extra and the slugs and periodically when I need them I powder them and put them together.
Any way, make your powder charges, I do this one at a time to prevent mishaps, and I throw 30 gn 3F Black from my flask into the cup and tap it down . I then take a slug made with Lee Precisions 200gn Conical, cap and ball mould put glue around the base and put it in the top of the cup. This sounds a little difficult but go slow the glue softens the paper a little and it usually slips right over with a slight twisting motion, at this point square the bullet out and let them dry over night. you can also substitute round balls at this point but grease over them after loading.
 
  http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/285116   This is the Bullet mould.
 
Last of all, I took the Bees Wax/Crisco mix we use with BP and wiped it into the exposed grease groove working towards the nose as not to get any on the paper.
Now your ready to shoot, it's my understanding that enough contact is made on the sides of this slug that you don't have to put lube over the top like balls.
 
 
When loading these animals will be a little snug getting them under the ram sometimes , if you push firmly, straight down they will pop down a little more and have more room  if you need it, with round balls you wont have this problem.
 
I took this from a pard, SGT. John Chapman. He makes very good paper crtg's. You can probably find his post with pictures on the Open Range, SASS wire, or Frontier spot. Good luck. DM