Author Topic: Winchester Rifle Plant Prepares to Close in Conn. (Read 3428 times)

varmit_master · « **on:** January 17, 2006, 10:24:54 PM »

Winchester Spokeman said they Hope to find a buyer before March 31st.
If no buyer comes forward it spells the end for nearly all commercially produced Winchester spokeman said. SAD Day. VM

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060117/winchester_closing.html?.v=2

Mauser · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2006, 05:09:44 AM »

This is a sad day. Love the guns or not, "Winchester" is one of those iconic American brand names that should never go defunct. This story is all to familiar these days and I wonder what IS going to be made in America in a couple decades.

nasem · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2006, 07:53:27 AM »

My question now is, If you have resiently bought a winchester 70, does that mean that the factory warrenty you get with it is.... also gone with the wind ?

and my 2nd question, does this mean that for those of us who own model 70s and have them in EXCELLENT conditions.... will they be worth alot to sell ?

jgrass5 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2006, 08:02:34 AM »

It really is a shame!, I don't think too many people realize that this type of manufactuing in our country is diminishing rapidly, especially in the Northeast where I live.

Smith & Wesson and Savage are barely holding on. Its just a matter of time for both of them. Aerospace isn't much better, Pratt & Whitney Aircraft engines, Hamilton Standard (Sundstrand now) Propellers, fuel controls and life support systems are a sliver of what they were in the day. All the small jobber machine shops are gone with them. Most of their work is "out sourced" or contracted abroad. mostly China.

Just look at what the american president of that Chinese auto maker said when they rolled out their new car at the Detroit auto show last week.
The car is going to sell for $8,000 and change and will only get better sooner than the Koreans took, less than 5 years.

That president had alot of "courage" or not many brains to say to the American auto workers that the pay for the chinese worker @ $6.00/hr is the new standard (their lucky if they get paid $6.00/week) is what american workers should be making! In china they still have public exacutions weekly for first time drug offences like pot smoking, and then they take away all of the immediate familys belongings. That is what China is. I Know Iv'e been there. They have no value on human life never mind quality of life! If you question any one, about the goverments stand on human rights you could be shot on sight.

I guess my point is, too many people shop with their wallets not with the Flag. This is very short sightedness and dangerous for our country. Unfortunatly, I believe all of U.S. manufacturing is headed the way of Winchester.

I just try and do my part and purchase U.S. products as often as I can when I make a purchase.
Sorry for the rambling, my thoughts are with the Winchester employees and their familys and hope for the best for them. :cry:

JGrass5 :

shilo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2006, 12:56:18 PM »

jgrass5, I agree with you. Too many people shop "price" and don't care where it was made. I've even seen union employees buy cheap imported tools for themselves -

I also wonder how much the Legal Climate in this country has to do with the demise of manufacturing in this country? OSHA, Workers Comp, EPA, Medical Ins, Liability Ins, and FRIVOULESS LAWSUITES. It's no wonder manufacturers are running as fast as they can to get out of this country.

june6th1944 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:33:09 PM »

The four horsemen are near.

I love my Winchester 94--it's the first gun I deer hunted with 22 years ago.

Keith L · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:12:21 AM »

Quote

I also wonder how much the Legal Climate in this country has to do with the demise of manufacturing in this country?

The most successful manufacturing company in the world currently (Toyota) is moving manufacturing to America. They are also insisting that suppliers to their plants be in America also. They are aware that the most productive workforce in the world is American. Something that seems to escape many of our manufacturers.

Laws like those that protect the environmnet, the safety of workers, and the rights of Americans are things that we need to maintain the lifestyle we appreciate. I spent way to much time early in my industrial career pulling peoole and severed parts of people from machines. Thats largely gone since OSHA. Workers Comp is in place for the benefit of the manufacturers in that it caps claims for injury and prevents large settlements. And I am now seeing wildlife coming back in numbers like never before as the earth cleans its self up. I am concerned that the distruction of the environment that the third world is experiencing to become the industrial dumping ground for the WalMarts of the world is going to destroy our life styles as well.

My point is that the manufacturers that are going out of business are frequently working on an old, outmoded business plan. The world has changed, and successful manufacturers have changed as well. And the good ones do it within the framework of laws currently in effect. Further, the do it without blaming workers, or trying to exploit them.

Enough rant. Who wants to join together and buy the plant? Maybe we can resurect this puppy.

DavOh · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2006, 08:28:09 AM »

Quote from: Keith L

Who wants to join together and buy the plant? Maybe we can resurect this puppy.

I'm with ya. But we better hurry.

coyote trapper1928 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2006, 08:40:23 AM »

I called the Winchester company and inquired as to where the new semi-auto rifle is being made. They said the parts are manufactured in Belgium and then assembled in Portugal. I happened to check the Browning website to see where the BAR rifle is made. Interestingly, the BAR is also made and assembled in the same countries. Hum.... I wonder if the rifles are made on the same assembly lines??? If that is the case, then why is the Winchester cheaper than the Browning?

ShadowMover · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2006, 12:58:18 PM »

I makes you think about the general situation in the US. It would be easy to get discouraged.

What do you call a place where the land is owned by foreign or multinational corporations, the occupants are increasingly in debt, both personally and as a nation, their education levels are dropping, the leaders are chosen indirectly by the same multinational corporations that own everything? When the amount of money the companies give a candidate determines if he elected or not, our votes lose their meaning. I know we vote, but someone else decides who is running. I know I'm generalizing but tell me I'm wrong. Please..

BTW have a look at Fred On Everything , #304, "A Colony Again"
http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

3006bluffhunter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2006, 04:11:44 AM »

Yes boys thats a sad thing:American Made it getting hard to find.....Look at these big companies GM and i bet there are others just hanging on like them........The industrial revolution.....It was not that long ago......Whats 150 years anymore thats not long ago....Now everything is shipped out....overseas & south of the border.....We are no longer distibuters of are US goods....We are just distrubuters & warehouses....Thanks Dale

DavOh · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2006, 04:54:55 AM »

Being in the industrial parts/export business, we specialize in US made parts needed by over seas petrochem outfits. The industrial supply market is still doing well. Mainly because industrial businesses and large companies for the most part want quality equipment and will pay the premium for the right parts.

Consumer businesses do not have that luxury, due to the "I dont care where it comes from as long as it's cheap" mentality of US Consumers. I've said before and I'll say it again. We're selling America to foreign interests little by little. We're selling America's soul, to the lowest bidder. :cry:

How much that has to do with Winchester? Maybe not so much, but it's there.

msorenso · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2006, 06:08:58 AM »

I hope someone buys it.So we can keep enjoying their great products. This is just a shame... i doubt the winchester rifles are going to increase that much in price, people think they are going to sell for a ton of money.. Right! There are alot of them around to keep the price in check..

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:03:52 AM »

I was at the local gun shop earlier today, and they are all out of Winchesters. People were buying them two and three at a time. I have a Model 94AE that I don't particularly like. I should have taken it over I guess while the rush is on.

willysjeep134 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2006, 05:23:50 PM »

Here is what I think I have heard on the situation.

Winchester ammunition (olin) has licensed the winchester name and sold the factory to a foreign interest. That lease is set to expire pretty soon, so that foreign interest will have to renegotiate the use of the name. With the Conn. factory closed, Olin might not be willing to license the name. From what I have heard (from the rumor mill mostly) is that Olin might seek another American company to lease the Winchester name to.

What I hope happens is this; Olin doesn't allow the lease of the name to be renewed. The US Firearms Company, the guys who make cold peacemakers in the old Colt factory, will want to spend some money and buy the Winchester factory too. They will lease the Wincehster name, and Olin will want to lease it to them because they are a good company, and a limited production of older classic models will come out. I don't care if they ever make another M1300 or X2 again, but if they JUST made classic (non AE) 94's and 1897 shotguns, and maybe highwall rifles, they could probably make a go of it, and I could still buy a Winchester.

msorenso · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2006, 03:14:46 AM »

Do you think Winchester really will be done, no one to buy in??? I just can't imaging Winchester really being done, just my luck though!

Harold50 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2006, 07:37:19 AM »

I know who the hypocrites are.
They're union men in a foreign car.

Harold

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2006, 07:52:07 AM »

Quote

I know who the hypocrites are.
They're union men in a foreign car.

I wish it were that simple. A couple years ago my son told me he was going to by a Mitsubishi. I told him no foreign car like that would park in my driveway. I went to the UAW web page to show him that it was foreign and found out that the model he wanted was made in America by union labor. I also found out that Toyota Caronas and Tahoe pickups are union made in California. And the PT Cruser made by Chrysler, a good old American company (now German owned) is assembled in Mexico with only 35% North American content (that includes Canada and Mexico).

Whenever I can I support American labor. It is rare that I can also support American Capitol. It becomes harder every day. Wit Wal Mart setting the way (and the wages in the retail sector) America is forgetting more each day how to make things. This Winchester announcement is just the next step in that process

We all like the notion of cheap goods. We should, however, consider the impact of our insistance on importing everything. The more dependent we become on other nations the less free we are. Oil producing states already have us were it hurts. Soon we will be a second rate large nation dependent on the kindness of others to have an economy at all. I don't know what sector we will exploit: much of the service sector has already gone to other nations that can undercut our wages and use the internet to supply that service. I am afraid the only options in the future will be working at Wal Mart or asking: want fries with that?"

Harold50 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:40:38 PM »

Keith,

Of course you are right - nothing is as simple as I hope to make it.

It just kills me though to see a steward wearing Nikes.

I hope the Winchester problem is not union busting, however. The American worker owes his/her dignity to union achievements.

Harold

Keith L · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2006, 03:23:34 PM »

I have been a union man for most of my adult life and know what you mean. Seems every year it gets harder to buy American. Now at least half my clothes are not American made, and I pay a premium for American shoes. I need a new car next year and am struggling with what to get. The car with the highest North American content is made in Kentucky in a non-union plant. Am I better off getting a UAW made car with lots of China in it? Life is not simple any more. And I am judging people less all the time as long as they are making an effort. We have to keep on trying.

msorenso · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2006, 06:44:36 AM »

ShadowMover well put..One of the most honest statements made..

Anyone thinking they are going to sell the plant to another or strickly union busting???

DavOh · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2006, 11:30:35 AM »

Quote from: Keith L

I am afraid the only options in the future will be working at Wal Mart or asking: want fries with that?"

Only then will Wal Mart be satisfied, because then they can lower the labor costs below the point of poverty so as to keep their "low prices"...

At any rate, eventually even WalMart will suffer from their own greed. They've already realized what's going to happen in the states, why do you think they're opening stores in China. It's the new economy powerhouse. China is (economically speaking) where the US was in the late '40's - early 50's... an industrial, AND retail/consumer ECONOMIC BOOM. Eventually as the working class of america(ironically enough, the primary customer of WalMart) dwindles to near extinction(Ford is laying off 30,000 employees, Daimler Chrysler 6,000), Walmart's growth will DEPEND on the economic prosperity of China.

If American's dont stop the auctioning of our economy to the lowest bidder, we will enter a recession, the likes of which has not been seen since the 1930's. Things will have to change. Because as more jobs are lost in the manufacturing industries, there will be no(significantly less) money flowing into the consumer/retail industries here. The US Government saw this happening in 2000, 2001 and 2002, for alot of reasons. Which is why they started the tax cuts(that arguement is for another time), and also the Fed dropping interest rates.

At some point the US will become a modernized version of the economies in much of Europe. England and Europe depend on the prosperity of other companies to pour cash into their countries. Exactly what someone else here said previously. Granted, this will not happen overnight and will likely be an issue for my future children. If not, my grandchildren.

Norseman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2006, 02:25:47 PM »

The real question is: Which American political party that has one hand that is shaking yours and blowin smoke up your@#$#!$$$...and the other one is in your wallett/billfold? Answer? Democrats!. They are are the party of taxing the crap out of ALL of us and driving buisness overseas so that this once great nation can now subsidise the freeloaders of our society and social programs! So much for; "Ask not what this country can do for you, but what you can do for this country". The same "left" overs (no pun intended) from the hippie generation gone wild. JFK would be considered conservative today!
Also: What political party has been anti gun the most...actually the only one? You guessed it! DEMOCRATS! Why vote for this "party" (since thats all they seem to do on- vote against any tradition value you can imagine and on the backs of the working man), just cause your familiy tradition has always voted this way, don't be a fool and wake up! It has been highjacked by nuts!
Winchester gone....what a horrible thought. Didn't even make National news. Sorry I made this political...but hey...it's true. Wake up!

Keith L · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2006, 03:31:18 PM »

Quote

The real question is: Which American political party that has one hand that is shaking yours and blowin smoke up your@#$#!$$$...and the other one is in your wallett/billfold? Answer? Democrats!.

There isn't enough difference between them to make this type of statement. Both have their own agendas and are working them against the needs of the people. It will be an interesting civics lesson to see how the next few years turn out.

DavOh · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:15:02 AM »

Elections nowdays from the state level up have become a tale of the lesser of two evils. Accept in California, where they let hundreds of candidates on the ballot.

I wonder what the government would be like if

A) lobbying (by way of the fattest wallet wins.) was illegal.

B) Politicians were prohibited to profit in any way shape or form from their constituants. That includes gifts. That also includes campaign contributions. Politicians would also be forbidden to own stock or other business assets during their terms.

C) The ruling body was comprised entirely by a single congress with no one head to make policy decisions. Possibly an equally bilateral emergency committee to make "executive decisions".

Mind you, I'm not declaring "revolution". It's just a thought.

Whether the government had anything indirectly to do with Winchester's demise, well, it certainly hasnt done anything to stop the loss of american fixtures to overseas interests, in general.

jakes10mm · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2006, 09:51:26 AM »

[/quote]

... I also found out that Toyota Caronas and Tahoe pickups are union made in California. And the PT Cruser made by Chrysler, a good old American company (now German owned) is assembled in Mexico with only 35% North American content (that includes Canada and Mexico).

[/quote]

Take it one level deeper. If you consider the PT Cruiser before German ownership...the final profits from selling a Toyota made by American workers goes to.....Japan. While the profits from a PT Cruiser come back states side. Hmm...which is better? On the "local" level...Toyota, on a "national / global" scale, probably the Chrysler.

Anyhow, I am witnessing the disappearing Winchesters at the local gun retailers. I was in Gander Mountain on Monday night and watched a guy buying two, and still browsing, when I left. I was trying to look at a Savage rifle, but the salespeople were too busy dishing out Winchesters.

I own a Winchester 1886 rifle...it turns my stomach every time I look at the barrel and read the "Made in Japan" roll stamp. Model 70's are my rifles of choice, but I'll be heading to Remingtons, especially if Winchester "survives" with a foreign roll stamp.

DavOh · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:09:13 AM »

Japaneese Winchester is no Winchester at all....

coyote trapper1928 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:35:30 AM »

If you wanted a new Winchester rifle or shotgun and the dealer did not have any in stock and none of his wholesalers had any in stock, could the dealer have the wholesaler place an order in to Winchester for the new rifle or shotgun? Has Winchester already shut down the production lines?

shilo · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2006, 12:36:42 PM »

jakes10mm, I agree. I don't want any gun that says made in Japan. Guns, Winchester in particular, are American traditions and should be made in America. I'd rather not have one than have one made in Japan. I bought a new "Winchester" Low Wall 22 a few years ago, ordered it, and didn't realize they were made in Japan. I got the rifle and every time I saw that it bothered me so much I sold the rifle.

msorenso · « **Reply #29 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:04:06 PM »

Keith l & Davoh,
Thank you for putting setting the political debate strait! Democrates are far from that besides are they not the ones in favor of Unions??? Besides one is not to blame more than the other, if the truth was known! Anyoen thin someone else will buy the plant???