Author Topic: Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?  (Read 936 times)

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Offline DavOh

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« on: January 19, 2006, 08:38:05 AM »
Is the Winchester's demise a bad omen for Remington?

Just a thought.
-Davoh

Online Graybeard

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 08:42:14 AM »
I see no reason to assume any correlation. Winchester Arms Co. died many long years ago. US Repeating Arms was formed by a group of folks who wanted to continue the name. They bought the factory and rented the Winchester name from Olin who was the owner of it for many many long years. Olin kept Winchester Ammo Co. alive.

US Repeating Arms was sold out to the French and then the Belgians. They owned both Browning and the right to use the Winchester name. BUT that agreement with Olin has expired. I don't think they wanted to pay what Olin wanted to keep the name going.

Remington is wholly owned by the same folks who've owned it for the last 50 plus years.

So where's the connection or reason to assume anything?


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 11:46:06 AM »
It ALL depends on weither or not Wal-Mart decides to continue selling guns and ammunition.

Offline sniperVLS

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 01:38:26 PM »
Winchesters woes have nothing to do with Remington. Out of all the gunmakers, I see Remington being around longer than most.

Offline mountainview

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 07:43:33 PM »
I also suspect that the woes at Rem and Win are very different. Rem is not out of the woods as they have the same problem that a lot of old line companies have, and that is legacy costs associated with retirees and pensions. There was a well written article I saw (can't remember where) that detailed this.

Offline jvs

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 10:46:16 PM »
Quote from: mountainview
I also suspect that the woes at Rem and Win are very different. Rem is not out of the woods as they have the same problem that a lot of old line companies have, and that is legacy costs associated with retirees and pensions. There was a well written article I saw (can't remember where) that detailed this.


If there is any one reason why Remington would go under, it will be because of Pension Obligations.  The big problem with that is no company can wiggle out from under those obligations without either going out of business or bankrupt, then those obligations are assumed by the Federal Gov't, at which time they are usually cut by about 50%.

Someone will buy the Winchester name and make them somewhere.  The question is .......who and where?  In either case the Union that represented those employees will no longer have a voice unless they purchase the name and other property.

I dont know if Remington employees are represented by a Union, but I strongly suggest they take a hard look at what happened to Winchester.
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline Leadlobber

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2006, 03:16:56 PM »
jvs wrote: I dont know if Remington employees are represented by a Union, but I strongly suggest they take a hard look at what happened to Winchester.            
    Just once I'd like to see someone mention what the Ceo's and top managers are doing to our companies. They pull down million dollar salaries and secure themselves golden parachute retirements . While the union guys are just trying to make a living... There I said it and I feel better....

Offline mjbgalt

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2006, 05:04:38 PM »
Don't blame the CEOs. If someone offers you a million you take it happily. Besides, they make millions of dollars' worth of decisions in a year. How much less per decision does an hourly factory worker make and affect the company?

Besides the fact that the CEOs are trying to keep those factory workers in a job.

The real problem is each and every one in this country who thinks someone owes them something just for showing up every day. If we made what we actually earned based on responsibility and honesty and hard work it would all be different.

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I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Muskie Hunter

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 01:17:40 AM »
Where I work,if it wasn't for the factory workers,then the ceo's and other white collar premadonas who sit around all day,drink coffee and look at porn on their computers wouldn't have a job.They might have to step down into the real world and get down and dirty to see what it is like to really earn their lowly paychecks that they expect their little blue collar slaves to work for.Wake up and smell the coffee.We are all being sold out to other countries because it's all about money and the fat cats want to get fatter and they don't care about their fellow americans or their loved ones as long as they can make their riches.Our own americans are selling us out so we all better learn how to speak Chinese.I spent two combat tours in Viet Nam and when I walk into a store and see things made in Viet Nam,that really hits me below the belt.Why was my combat company wiped out ?So we can do buisness with the gooks?.I don't think so.You try and tell that to the dead comrads who's faces I still see in my sleep every night.There are alot of Korean war vets and World War II vets that feel the same way I do.So for all you white collar ceo's and buisness grads out there that only talk about guns and gun powder and have never really experienced the real smell of gun powder that feels the air so thick that you choke on it ,you too better wake up.It's we blue collar workers who made you who you are so do us all a favor and start acting like real americans and help us take our country back unless you want to bow to the little yellow guy with slant eyes.
Vietnam, 66-67, 173 rd. Airborne Brigade, point man, tunnel rat
Vietnam 68, 82 nd. Airborne Div. , sniper.
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Offline msorenso

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2006, 05:02:09 AM »
No reason this company should be pulling what they do..  They had a good market share, and about as good of a name as you can get...  One easy problem, One must adjust expences to income, obviusly they were not... And Unions were not the problem... These people need a decent wage and living... And that what they get and deserve!
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Offline nomosendero

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2006, 09:07:27 AM »
I have not seen their P & L #'s, or any other financial statements of any
kind for this Company. For this reason I do not have the information to blame "greedy management" or "greedy Unions", both of which can be
equally corrupt & damaging to a company. Does anyone actually know
EXACTLY what happened to this Company with real data, it would be good
to see.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline 30-30man

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Winchester Demise an Omen for Remington?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2006, 04:34:55 PM »
Unions, pentions, and high salaries have taken their toll on Winchester and Remington no doubt.  I think the biggest reason companies go under is because they can't produce the goods cheap enough to compete with the foriegn makers.  They let quality slide and start relying on past reputations. Then they stamp their names on crap and hope to sucker as many as they can before the word gets out. When the word does get out, they switch to another model and advertise and hype the heck out of their product.  Remington and Winchester have done this for years.  The same thing is happening in the auto industry. The US consumer is too educated now to get away with these old practices.  Word gets around more quickly because of the internet and people just stop buying.