Author Topic: Some FA questions.... (Read 1385 times)

benny · « **on:** January 21, 2006, 02:35:56 PM »

Hello,

I had a chance to handle a used model 83 today and had a few questions I was hoping the FA guru' s might be able to help with. The gun was a field grade 454 w/ 7.5" bbl.

What is the difference between the field grade and the higher grade gun?

Why does the gun need to be carried with the hammer over an empty chamber? (I only have one gun, a S&W 657, that I took a deer with this year , and it seems both S&W and Ruger are safe to carry fully loaded.)

Do the guns sell for a premium? (the gun was used but they were still asking almost $1900)

Lastly, as far as cal. choice, I think I would like to give the 475LB a try over the 454, if I go with a FA. (Originally saw the cal listed for BFR.) Is the recoil comparable in these two cal's?

Sorry if my questions are very basic. I am new to handgunning and am trying to make as few "wrong" purchases as possible. Any comments on the FA 83 and the 475LB for a newer handgunner like myself are much appreciated!

palgeno · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2006, 04:12:58 PM »

Benny---Yup---1900 is way too much for a used field grade---at least 700 too much! Look up the Freedom Arms web site and you will find the answers to any of the questions. Caliber is a matter of choice---mine is a 7 1/2 inch .454 Premier grade with express sights----love it! :grin: pg

De41mag · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2006, 04:13:21 PM »

benny;

The difference between the Field Grade and the Primier Grade is the Primier Grade comes with a Lifetime Warranty of the orginal owner and the Field Grade comes with a one year warranty.
But heck... as well as these guns are built, I don't think you will have any problems.
Congratulations on your deer with your 657, I took my first deer with a handgun using my 657.
Also, FA does say that you need to carry on an empty chamber in the Model 83.
As far as the calibers you mentioned, I can't help you on that. My largest caliber is a 44 Magnum.
Good Luck on whichever you choose.

Dennis

shilo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2006, 05:32:24 PM »

benny, Congrats on the deer! Freedom Arms revolvers are the finest "sixguns" ever made. You can't go wrong with any of them. The field grade is the same gun as the premier grade except for finish, sights, and warranty. I personally prefer the finish of the field grade and you can order them with the upgraded sights or add them later. As far as warranty, the way these are made - I'm not worried. 454 or 475? That's a tough one. Do you reload? If not, 454 seems to have better availability. There also seems to be a better and wider selection of components for the 454. What range do you want to shoot? The 454 is higher velocity than the 475 making hits at long range alittle easier. All that being said, if you like the 475 go with it. It is extremely versatile, packs a heck of a punch, and even with reduced loads ( 420gr @ 900fps) will kill just about anything in N. America. I have a 7.5" field grade 454 and a 7.5" field grade 475. Can't really say which I like better.

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2006, 05:43:33 PM »

You should be able to buy a NEW Field grade for $1200.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2006, 10:23:07 PM »

On the FA website the cheapest field grade gun is $1573. That's not to say a dealer will not sell one for $1200 but that's the MSRP.

SJPrice · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2006, 02:33:51 AM »

Benny,

I agree with others here. The dealer is at least $700 too high on a used field grade 83. I recently purchased a new Premiere 83, 4 3/4 inch 475 for the price he is asking for a used field grade. Most dealers will do better than the MSRP on the FA website. For $1900 you can order the gun new, Premiere grade, lifetime warranty, extra fit and finish and the options/caliber you want. Whats more I ordered mine and it was at my dealer the next day. Yes you should carry the 83 with an empty chamber under the hammer. These are not Ruger copy handguns like the BFR with transfer bar safeties. They are true single actions like the original Colts. As you draw back the hammer you will hear the traditional four clicks. You load and treat them like Colts, as in draw the hammer back to half cock, load one, skip one and then load the rest, draw the hammer to full cock and lower it completely. You will be resting on an empty chamber. Then if you drop it or hit the hammer it will not be able to drive the firing pin into a live round. I went with the 475 for this FA but I have extensive experience with both the 454 and the 475 from Rugers and BFR's. I find the full loads from a 454 to be more tiring to shoot than full load 475's. The 454 has a much faster recoil to it and in most guns also causes some torque sideways as well as back. The 475 on the other hand just pushes and rolls back. Don't get me wrong, it pushes and rolls back real hard, but more controlable in my opinion. That being said, for pure pleasure I do most of my 454 shooting with 45 colt rounds and most of my 475s are moderate hunting loads. I like 400 grains of lead at just under 1,000 fps, These are easy to shoot and will handle anything you need in the lower North America. If you do not handload, you can get very accurate 475 ammo from Buffalo Bore in both heavy hunting loads as well as lighter practice loads. I believe Grizzly will also be offering lighter practice loads for the 475 in the near future. Okay last, a few comments on the BFR vs FA issue. I own both a BFR and a FA in 475 Linebaugh. Comparing the two would not be fair. The BFR is a great gun, and will do what it is designed for anytime, everytime for a lifetime, I am sure. It is well made and I would say is better quality than most if not all stock Rugers I have owned or handled. It shoots well and will group inside 2 inches at 50 yards from a rest if I do my part. The grip frame however does not handle the recoils as well as my FA and it does not lock up anything like my FA. The finish is nice, but the frame polish is not the same as the grip frame or as the barrel. In other words it is a production peice. My FA on the other hand has a beautiful uniform finish to the steel. The peices match so well that you have to hold it close to see where the pieces are fit together. The action locks up like a bank vault. In fact it is almost impossible to see the cylinder gap. My FA came with a test target that is one ragged hole at 25 yds. You have to look close to see it is more than one shot, and I can get groups under an inch at 50 yards from a rest. This is due to the extra time take to line bore the FA cylinders so they align with the barrel. In short, the Freedom Arms guns are the top of the line in SA revolvers. If you buy one you will not regret the investment.

TScottO · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2006, 08:18:57 AM »

The premier grade comes with a lifetime warranty to the original owner only. You might be able to get around this if you bought a used Premier grade that still has a clean warranty card, but I do not know for sure if FA would honor this.

The Premier grade also comes with a brushed finish that is easily maintained with a scotch-brite pad.

The FieldGrade comes with a bead blast type finish that gives the gun more of a grey look as opposed to a fairly bright brushed finish.

The FieldGrade comes stock with Pachmyer presentation grips where as the Premier comes with wood.

I cannot swear to it but I believe the FieldGrade comes with a different type rear sight.

The FieldGrade does not come with a factory test target.

FA says to carry with an empty chamber. I just accept this and do what they say. If it takes more than four shots I dont need to be in the woods anyway. Is the gun really safe to carry fully loaded and FA just says to carry over an empty for legal reasons? I dont know. The 83s do come with a safety bar that is engaged at ¼ cock or so, but is it safe enough or not? Beats me, but I sure wouldnt waste the time and money putting a safety in a gun that was not functional or reliable. Why risk it carry over an empty.

If you are looking at the used market there is no advantage in buying a Premier Grade. Since the warranty will be void to you I dont see that a brushed finish is worth the price difference that they bring on the used market. If you dont like the pachmyer grips on the field grade you may want to research the cost of nice wood or micarta grips before you purchase used. The price of nice grips might put a used field grade in the same price range as a used premier that already has nice grips.

I prefer the 475 however I wouldnt recommend either of the calibers you mentioned unless I was dedicated to shooting the gun enough to be good.

Take Care,
Scott

SJPrice · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2006, 11:18:28 AM »

I agree with Scott,

The 475 and the 454 are serious handguns for serious shooters. If you are not ready for them you will find this gun becoming a "safe queen"

MS Hitman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:56:41 AM »

However, if you reload, or trust someone who does; you will be able to tailor loads from mild practice loads to full house elephant killers as your ability increases.

My only complaint with the .454 is the cartridge is very load regardless of loading level. Beyond this, I believe it is great. I have two FAs in this caliber and have hunted on two continents with them.

I also have a 6" Field Grade in 475 Linebaugh. This revolver is accurate with any load I have tested in it. I am able to load this revolver with 325 grain bullets at around 850 fps to 425s at nearly 1400 fps. My preference is 400+ grain bullets as the lighter ones give the revolver a "whiipy" recoil much like the .454. Conversely, heavier bullets in the .454 tend to make mine recoil more like the Linebaugh.

I order mine as a field grade with the micarta grip panels and a premeir rear sight. This configuration works well for me and I get what I believe is the best of both worlds. I have a premeir (pre field grade) and field grade in the 454. About the only way you can tell them apart is finish and barrel length (the 10" is scoped), because you sure can't by looking at the groups they shoot.

About the warranty, neither of my 454s was bought new. Saying this, FA has gone through both revolvers and warrantied some work on the inside of my 10" when I sent it back to them for maicarta grips. I fell on my 475 and scratched it up bad. I called to asked how much it would cost to refinish the revovler as it was my fault. Their first question was "Are you okay?". Long story short, I got my revolver back looking new for shipping costs. One would have to look hard for better customer service than is in my opinion.

Having said all this; if you wnat one, I do not beleive you would be dissappointed. Some dealers try and gouge on the prices. Look around until you find one that will work with you. They are an investment I doubt seriously you will regret.

EdK · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:52:02 AM »

Quote from: MS Hitman

I also have a 6" Field Grade in 475 Linebaugh. This revolver is accurate with any load I have tested in it. I am able to load this revolver with 325 grain bullets at around 850 fps to 425s at nearly 1400 fps. My preference is 400+ grain bullets as the lighter ones give the revolver a "whiipy" recoil much like the .454. Conversely, heavier bullets in the .454 tend to make mine recoil more like the Linebaugh.

Interesting comments. I am often finding myself reading posts about how "awful" a 454 is to shoot compared to a 475. It would seem that given their similar case lengths and bullet diameters that they would handle similarly assuming the platform was the same such as a FA mod 83 - IF they were loaded similarly. Your comments appear to support this. So, 260gr bullets loaded hot in a 454 would handle/recoil similarly to 325gr slugs loaded hot in a 475. Also 325-350gr in a 454 should recoil similarly to a 425gr in a 475 (given similar powder burn rates, loaded to similar pressure, etc.).

I well realize that loaded similarly the 475 would be capable of greater potential than the 454 - that's where it has the edge. Isn't this just the long standing 44mag/45 colt argument scaled up a bit? Just trying to establish that a 454 does not have to be loaded to have nasty, sharp recoil to be useful.

benny · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2006, 06:59:54 AM »

I think I'm going to find a way to try both the 454 and 475 before making a decision. If recoil is similar I think I would go with the 475 as it is just a little different (one of the reasons I was drawn to the 41 mag). Also, I would definately get an extra cylinder in 480 Ruger.

Also, need to find the time to start reloading. Any suggestions on a starter kit and some good books?

Thanks.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2006, 05:19:39 PM »

I do not recall mentioning any argument regarding the two calibers or a scaled up version thereof. I am just reporting what I have experienced. Both are fine calibers and capable of taking anything big enough to die.

The .454 does not have to be loaded up to nasty to be effective. Actually, a properly designed cast bullet of the 300 grain persuasion loaded to a nominal 1200 fps is going to perform very nicely on most game. Same can be said for a 400 grain bullet loaded to 850 fps in the .475.

Velocity is a diminshing variable in the "equation" of bullet performance. Therefore, I believe the .475 has an edge in that heavier bullets may be used without exceeding the balance point of a particular cartridge. We could argue from now to the end of time which cartridge is stronger, or more potent. I will stay in the bigger bullet camp. I bought my .475 as a stopping gun. I still plan to return to Africa and take a Cape with it. The .454 will kill a Cape, but I guess I am reverting to the basic instinct of picking up the "biggest" stick possible.

EdK · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2006, 08:58:47 AM »

Quote from: MS Hitman

I do not recall mentioning any argument regarding the two calibers or a scaled up version thereof. I am just reporting what I have experienced. Both are fine calibers and capable of taking anything big enough to die.

Please don't get me wrong - I like what you have to say about the 454 and if you like the 475 just a little bit better then that's OK too. I'm simply referring to others who like to complain about the harshness of the 454 - it's not a one-trick pony.

My comments alluding to the long standing "argument" between the 44 mag and 45 Colt were simply meant to serve as an analogy between the 454 and 475. For example, it is often pointed out that the 45 Colt (in a modern gun) can move the same weight bullet as a 44 mag to the same velocities at a lower pressure - thus not being so "nasty" to shoot. I grant you that the 475 has the same advantage over the 454.

Where is all of this going? Well, I generally do not choose to load the 454 to the absolute max, much as I like to load my lightweight S&W 44 Mountain Gun to Keith 44 special pressures so it too is not "nasty". The FA model 83 loaded with heavy-for-caliber cast bullets at moderate velocities (e.g. 1200fps) are precisely what I like it for: they get the job done as I hunt only whitetail to moose - not dangerous stuff

MS Hitman - I salute your open mind towards the 454

TScottO · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2006, 12:43:46 PM »

Benny,

How much money do you haven in mind for reloading set up?

As far as the 454 and 475 thing I like the bigger fatter bullets. This is strickly my opinion but I look at the 454 as gaining horsepower by velocity and the 475 as gaining power through bullet weight and diameter, kind of the light/fast vs the heavy/slow debate. I realize the 454 is a big bore and big bores are thought to gain power through diameter but I feel the 475 is where this principal really starts to occur in the big bore relm of things.

Take Care,
Scott

benny · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2006, 08:35:02 AM »

hello,

i really have no idea what a good reloading setup costs. I have seen some rcbs kits that are about $260, but I don't know if that is a good product or price.

I do know that I want something that will handle a variety, from my 41 magnum up through 375H&H.

I'm also kicking around the idea of a FA revolver in 44 mag to begin getting used to heavy recoil before moving uo to the big boys.

Anyway, reloading is first on the list. Thanks.

SJPrice · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2006, 09:17:15 AM »

Benny,

You will do fine with the RCBS reloaders. They are plenty heavy enough to handle any caliber you are thinking of. As for the FA. If you are going to start reloading first then I would suggest you go with a big bore FA right from the get go. You can load it down to light 44 mag levels of power and recoil and as you progress you can work up loads to where ever you are comfortable. Of course if you are independently wealthy then by all means buy several FA in incrementally higher calibers as you progress. Good luck with your reloading ventures and remember to follow the manuals. Experimenting with reloads is better left to the experts with preasure barrels and slide rules.