Author Topic: Traditions Pursuit Pro (Read 3086 times)

Cimarron · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:10:28 PM »

Very Good Point Bubba!

Every negative I hear about the Spanish barrels deals with the 10,000 PSI proof mark and because they use "soft" steel. However, I was about to ask what Bubba brought up... how many of these injuries are the product of "ruptured" barrels.

When you talk about nipples blowing out... I can show you my 36" barreled Pennsylvania that will spit nipples with anything over 60 grains of black powder under a patched ball. Of course I have to ask myself did I check to see if they were correctly tightened? etc. etc.

I chose my Traditions Pursuit because (1) the type of action has been around forever in shotguns and break open single shot rifles so it is a strong action and (2) there is nothing to blow back in the direction of your face... no nipples, no bolts, plungers, springs, etc.

I'd love to see documented evidence of barrel failure... and quite frankly the 10,000 PSI proof mark has been waved as evidence when it seems to have become a "straw man" to use for target practice for those who have a prejudice.

And as to the matter of becoming afraid of a gun which has alread proved itself safe at the given load/bullet combination. I wonder if that is the product of too many tirades about the evils of Spanish guns.

So far, from reports I have heard recounted... these gun injuries seem to have been charactistically either in the first use of a gun, or the first use of a "magnum" load. Has anyone document and catagorized (1) what types of guns... actions not brands... are failing and (2) specifically what part on the gun failed.

I presumed that ALL of these tradgic stories came about because those terrible soft steel barrels failed, ruptured and spewed shrapenal.

Some times it feels to me that a lot of guys with "good" guns are really piling on the guys with the "bad" guns to motivate them to sell their "bad" guns and go get a "good" gun?

And since I'm on a rant... to clarify (which Traditions does on their web site) the manufacture of their guns is by Ardesa of Spain http://www.ardesa.com.

When you look at their site, Ardesa produces a great many different muzzle loaders, but there are no models that look like the in-line guns sold by Traditions. Is Traditions a gun manufacturer... no. Are they simply a gun importer... what they have for sale doesn't represent the models marketed by Ardesa. Therefore, Traditions obviously is involved in defining the secific model manufacturered JUST FOR THEM by Ardesa. That implies AT LEAST design specifications. So let's quit dismissing Traditions as "just" an importer. Hewlett Packard sells products manufacturered overseas, but they are built to HP's specifications.

I'm pretty open minded... and since whatever is proof is stamped on the barrel is a non-issue... let's get specific... show me the guns with the ruptured barrels. That I will believe. Tell me exactly "what" went wrong and I'll listen.

But don't tell me that ALL imported guns are unsafe... or the fact that the stamping of a quirky European proof is justification to pile :cb2: them in the middle of the square and burn them all.

bubba · « **Reply #31 on:** February 02, 2006, 12:33:26 AM »

very well put commaron. I have owned a lot of different "cheap guns" over the years and never had much trouble and certainly none with a barrel blowing up in my face. I think it is like you said oh get a good gun the junk is junk like bragging. A buddy of mine had a cva bob cat 60 bucks from wally world and of course it never shot magnum loads, but it sure shot deer. His joke was that CVA stood for Cant Very well Afford a good gun, but the venison sure tasted good.

bubba · « **Reply #32 on:** February 02, 2006, 12:45:12 AM »

So go take your persuit and enjoy shooting it and harvesting game with it. I have a buddy who has a persuit LT which is even a cheaper cheap gun and it shoots every bit as well as my encore or omega, and we have lots of fun shooting them. And as far as I am concerned that is what it is all about.

sabotloader · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2006, 08:09:16 AM »

Barrel Proofing by the House of Elbar.

These guys proof the barrels that Spain manufactures. For a barrel to leave Spain it must bare a proofmark. Proofing is like anything else the higher the proof the more money you must pay to have it proofed and exported. Capitolism is working Spain also. In this high dollar world every penney counts in the bottom line.

One man has created a personal vendetta against the CVA products and it has spread to any Spanish barrel must be bad.

That same man shoots an A&H which is a Spanish barrel, but it has further been tested by A&H to a greater standard than the proofing indicates. New A&H's are now proofed to a higher proof.

There is no proof anywhere that because a Spanish barrel blows up that all Spanish barrels are bad. If all of these barrels are bad why are not the law suits hitting the court system - this vendetta has been going on more than a few years now plenty of time for the court system to react.

Each company specs their request for a product and pays for it to be proofed - CVA chooses to proof to the minimum for export.

Follow maunfactures guidelines and you will have a safe gun - step out of those guidelines and safety becomes questionable.

just my 2 bits...

Cimarron · « **Reply #34 on:** February 03, 2006, 11:28:44 AM »

Amen and Amen!

Thanks bubba and sabotloader... I wish that hadn't gotten lost in the middle of this thread... it should be public reading for all the newbies who pass over some fun waiting until they can afford to go first class.

I have no bone to pick. T/C, Knight and Savage are great guns, but I got into ML 30 years ago because I could buy a kit and build something I could shoot. The product is a .45 Pennsylvania that has been a joy through the years.

When I decided to get my son into ML hunting, I bought a couple of Traditions carbines for very cheap... and my son took his first buck (an 8 point) with that gun.

I've had, and shot CVAs and I'm still not scared of them (maybe a bit frustrated with them sometimes), but then I find that they kick the stuffing out of me at their safe loads.

I wish more guys were in the sport for the fun of it, and not the prestiege of having the biggest, best... and most expensive.

With this I will post no more to this thread... I'm going to take my Traditions Pursuit Pro and enjoy blowing smoke!

Cimarron · « **Reply #35 on:** February 03, 2006, 11:31:20 AM »

Amen and Amen!

Thanks bubba and sabotloader... I wish that hadn't gotten lost in the middle of this thread... it should be public reading for all the newbies who pass over some fun waiting until they can afford to go first class.

I have no bone to pick. T/C, Knight and Savage are great guns, but I got into ML 30 years ago because I could buy a kit and build something I could shoot. The product is a .45 Pennsylvania that has been a joy through the years.

When I decided to get my son into ML hunting, I bought a couple of Traditions carbines for very cheap... and my son took his first buck (an 8 point) with that gun.

I've had, and shot CVAs and I'm still not scared of them (maybe a bit frustrated with them sometimes), but then I find that they kick the stuffing out of me at their safe loads.

I wish more guys were in the sport for the fun of it, and not the prestiege of having the biggest, best... and most expensive.

With this I will post no more to this thread... I'm going to take my Traditions Pursuit Pro and enjoy blowing smoke!

bubba · « **Reply #36 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:12:07 PM »

Well I must say I own pretty much all T/C, but I have also owned my share of cva and have a traditions flint lock. I have owned an optima a bob cat and a 45 kentucky. The only reason I do not own them now is that I have gotten new muzzleloaders for Christmas such as an encore one year and an omega the next. I just do not have the room or the use for all of them, so I would get rid of one when I got another. I also have a sidekick and a huntsman. all of them shot as well as the other. I started 27 years ago with a tc hawken kit and loved it and still own it also. to each his own but until I see the documented proof of all these exploded barrels, I will stand by any of them. Muzzleloading does not have to be a rich mans sport who has to spend 500 dollars on a gun to enjoy themselves.

Camper · « **Reply #37 on:** February 07, 2006, 10:07:06 AM »

I Emailed Traditions on Jan 31st and have not received a reply as of yet. I just finished sending another email to please respond ASAP. Here is a copy of my first email that I sent on Jan 31st

I must say that I am a little disappointed a conversation that I had with the customer service department at Traditions. I called today for information on what the Pursuit Pro Barrels are proof tested to in P.S.I.

This was how the conversation went,

The customer service department told me that Pursuit Pro Barrels are proofed for well over a maximum load of 150gr of 777 or Pyrodex pellets. He then told me that the Spanish house of eibar will only stamp the barrel with a lower proof because of liability.

I then asked well what is the amount of PSI that the barrels are proofed to and he did not have that info.

I then asked where I could find this info out and he told me that he did not know and stated (sounding a little annoyed with me) that as long as I stay with the recommended 150gr or lower that they guarantee there will be no problems and that again these barrels are proofed way over the 150gr maximum charge.

I can't say that I am too impresses with this call to Traditions. You should know exactly what your barrels are proofed to and this information should be available to their customers.

I know that 150gr of 777 have not shown any pressure signs with my Pursuit pro and I still feel comfortable shooting it.
I am not interested in using higher charges I would just like to know this info to promote this product that I like so much!

My interest in the proof testing developed from a conversation with fellow Muzzle loading enthusiast on a well used informative form http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=513506#513506

The argument that we are having is, how a company can advertise that it is safe using loads of 150gr of Pyrodex or Triple 7 when the proof testing stamp is well under the P.S.I. that the loads stated above produce.

I do think that Traditions should be a little more upfront and be able to give this information to its customers.

It looks very bad on a company especially to new customers looking at buying a muzzle loader when a company cannot prove that their product is safe.

A customer service technician saying it is safe and not having any info to back it up and getting annoyed with the customer who is asking is poor service and does not cut it especially when you are dealing a product that can be potentially life threatening.

I am requesting the amount of PSI that the Pursuit Pro models are tested to.

Thank you for you speedy response

Signed

Traditions Pursuit Pro owner

UtahRob · « **Reply #38 on:** February 08, 2006, 04:57:37 AM »

I would not hold my breath for a reply.

I ordered a new barrel for my gun and e-mailed them asking when I shoud recieve it . No reply. :cry: So 6 days latter I called them and was told that they were doing inventory and they would ship my barrel next week. 9 days later they e-mailed me and said they would ship out my order next week ''IF'' it was in stalk.They just finished Iventory and don't Know if its in stalk?? 3 weeks have gone by now since I last called them and still no barrel.
I sure like the looks of my gun but with the lack of customer service and all the bad Info out there, I will never buy anything for Traditions again.

Rob. :cry:

Camper · « **Reply #39 on:** February 08, 2006, 07:29:01 AM »

Well it's looking like that for me as well UtahRob!!!

Camper

UtahRob · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2006, 11:27:34 AM »

Well I may have to eat my words about never buying a Traditions gun again. :cry: I am still not impressed with costumer service. :cry: Anyway I finally got my new 28''nickle pro barrel . I had to take the sights off my old barrel and put them on the new one. Today I went out in the hills behind our home and shot the new barrel for the first time. I cant believe that the sights were on the money. I shot 4 shots at a target at 70 yrds and one at a rock on a mountain at around 150yrds nailed it, tightened the sights a went home . This is the 4 shot group I shot with open sights.. :grin: :grin:

bubba · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2006, 08:15:15 AM »

nice group rob. Who would have thought a spanish barrel would shoot like that. I bet it would even kill something when you hit it Hmmmm what a concept

UtahRob · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2006, 11:18:01 AM »

Bubba

We have 4 guns, one TC Omega and two cva's One bolt and one Optima and one Tradition pursuit pro and they all shoot great. The only thing that I really don't like about tradition was the lack of response from the customer service when I e-mailed them . one time it took 9 days and the next time they still have not responded and that was over three weeks ago. But I love the feel of my Pursuit pro. And now with the groups I am getting I can't wait to do some hunting.

Cimarron · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:36:20 PM »

Well, I'll break my word... but gotta compliment UtahRob on his shooting and echo my own experience. Went shooting with my son... his Encore 209/.50 and my Pursuit Pro.

I haven't had time to set my scope centered in so we set up a large box and stuck targets at 12 and 6. He shoot very respectable groups within inches of each shot.

I thought my scope was terribly off since I wasn't even hitting the box.

After about 4 rounds, we walked down to the box, boy was I disguested... the "old man" couldn't even hit the box!

When we looked closely we found four scars down the edge of the box. They were so close as to be overlapping and perfectly verticle... no hits on the box, but four creases that would have taken no more than a silver dollar to cover.

I was astounded... I was propted up on the door of the car for a rest and wasn't anticipating seeing the results.

By doggies... these guns can shoot!

So I echo UtahRob... don't know that I would want to do business with the head office (not tried myself, but others have) but when I walk out in the field, my rifle isn't going to be able to be blamed for a miss!

UtahRob · « **Reply #44 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:06:59 AM »

You bet these Spanish guns can shoot !!!! :grin:
And I bet they will last as long as any other B.P. :wink:

Take care- Rob
The proud owner of 3 Spanish
made muzzle loaders.