Author Topic: 25-06 for big mulies (Read 8851 times)

nomosendero · « **Reply #30 on:** January 26, 2006, 06:27:22 PM »

Riddleof steel
Sounds like you have a good load, like I have seen, the terminal results
that you saw show the round's effectiveness at that range. Good to see
you are getting right at 3,200 with the standard round in the Sendero
barrel, another case in point that 3,250 with a 125 is not a big stretch in the AI case with said barrel. You are so right about being steady, I use
the Harris & we have made rear bags that are rectanglular & filled with
poly beads. They are very light & have pockets on our jackets to carry
them. With a long shot worth takeing, you must have the time for set up anyway, I always go prone for the longer ones & have practiced this big time & the set-up is like a rock.

Nonya
You are comfortable out to 300 with a 25-06 & that is cool to me. Years ago my brother got me into the 25's for low volume Varmits & Deer. Then
my Deer rifle of choice was a 7mm Mag (used 3 at the time), but enough
terminal results at ranges discussed got me into the bigger 25's. The
results that followed showed me that I could be comfortable out to 400
with the round & it's EFFECTIVENESS that is cool to me also.

Don Fischer
The AI gave me about 125-140 with the heavy bullets & 100 FPS with the
light bullets, the 125 overtakes the light ones for long range Varmits anyway so I just use that bullet. Like I said before, the Sierra Manual
shows 3,200 with the 120 with 3 powders, not a big concern & as shown
before, the Wea. will run another 75 at least over the AI & sometimes 100.
Velocity is not the main motive for me with the AI chamber, I wanted a
match grade chamber & I got it. BTW, sectional density is the function of
dia. versus weight & yea, the 120gr. 25 & 140 gr. 270 penetrate roughly
the same with the same construction & the same vel. I am going to e-mail Sierra tomorrow about a bullet & I will ask in case i am mistaken.
Yes, the 6.5 has some good long range bullets, I only have a 6.5X55, my
wife's, but I am pretty sure that I will get a 264 Sendero now that they
exist. I have bigger & smaller, but it just seems wrong not to go out West
with the 264 once or twice. I just like guns too much I am afraid.

Good evening to all!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2006, 06:16:38 PM »

OK, Ill throw my two cents in, then you guys can hammer away a me, too. 

First, let me state that Im shooting a wimpy little .257 Roberts, not the .25-06. My loads include a 115g TSX @ 2958fps and a 120g A-Frame @ 2947fps. I normally zeroing the rifle for MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range) for a 6 diameter target with its hunting loads, meaning the bullet is never more than 3 above or below line of sight out to the MPBR range.

Doing so for my loads results in the following at 400 yards:

115g TSX
POI = -14.8
FPE = 1202

120g A-Frame
POI = -15.9
FPE = 1161

While my 7mm Mag or .300 Win Mag are obviously better choices for 400 yard shots, I feel pretty comfortable that either of the above loads would do the job very reliably. I should point out that I am very particular about the shots I take and even with the big boomers would pass up Texas heart shots.

I know a lot of folks dont get much long range practice in and dont have much confidence in their abilities past 250 or 300 yards. I also understand very well the problems the wind or misjudging the distance can cause.

In my own case I do quite a bit of practice hooting clay pigeons at 200 and 300 yards and occasionally back off to 400 yards to shoot steel gongs. I also use a laser range finder to eliminate the range estimation problems. The wind, however, can still be an issue.

Bullet placement is everything and Ive very confident in my ability with the .257 Roberts more so than with the big boomers. This morning I put two bullets into a coyote at an estimated the range at 500 yards, later lasered at 479. The coyote was facing straight away for the first shot and I hit him enter of mass as intended. (This is a shot I would NOT take on big game.) The coyote went down but struggled back up and presented a broadside opportunity. The second shot hit him in the lungs and it was lights out.

Shoot a mulie with the .257 Roberts or .25-06 and one of the loads above at 400 yards? Absolutely.

Best choice? Absolutely not.

Todd1700 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2006, 06:34:06 PM »

A 25-06 has more than enough power to kill deer sized game at 400 yards. Whether or not the particular shooter can put a bullet in the vitals at 400 yards is the important question. It's been my experience that few people (despite their delusions of grandeur) have any business attempting shots of that distance anyway.

Quote

(Nonya said) a 25-06 will kill a deer dead at 400 yards with proper shot placement. I just dont like the idea of shooting game that large at that kind of range with a light bullet,to many what ifs.

Comments like this are a mystery to me. Please tell me what larger caliber I can use that consistently kills all game even with improper shot placement. A gut, leg or ham hit is a potentially lost animal whether you are using a 25-06 or a 416 rigby. It's the people who buy large stomper magnums thinking that the extra powder and lead are going to make up for poor shooting skills that scare me. I'd rather have a guy in my deer camp who is a crack shot with a 243 than some guy who can't keep three shots on a sheet of plywood at 300 yards due to the recoil of his new ultra mag rifle.

Deer are not that hard to kill and where you hit them is far more important than what you hit them with. It's also been my experience that most of the time the guys who carry smaller calibers shoot circles around the magnum guys at the range and in the field.

bladerunner · « **Reply #33 on:** February 14, 2006, 03:38:07 PM »

Quote

Please tell me what larger caliber I can use that consistently kills all game even with improper shot placement. A gut, leg or ham hit is a potentially lost animal whether you are using a 25-06 or a 416 rigby.

amen brother,AMEN

NONYA · « **Reply #34 on:** February 14, 2006, 08:51:43 PM »

Well I have never lost a wounded deer and I cant say that 100% of my shots have been in the heart/lungs so it must be the one Im shooting,hope this helps you out.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2006, 02:39:05 AM »

Quote from: Todd1700

tell me what larger caliber I can use that consistently kills all game even with improper shot placement. A gut, leg or ham hit is a potentially lost animal whether you are using a 25-06 or a 416 rigby. It's the people who buy large stomper magnums thinking that the extra powder and lead are going to make up for poor shooting skills that scare me. I'd rather have a guy in my deer camp who is a crack shot with a 243 than some guy who can't keep three shots on a sheet of plywood at 300 yards due to the recoil of his new ultra mag rifle.

quote]

Let's not assume that because someone the uses a large magnum, that they can't shoot them. I am every bit as proficient with my big magnums as I am with my smaller cartridges. I shoot my 416 Rigby as well as I shoot my 22-250. Granted some people just plain suck no matter what gun they shoot. The only factor is recoil and how people handle it.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2006, 04:49:05 AM »

I would try to list the cartridge's I've killed deer with. 243, 25-06, 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 7x57, 280 7mm Rem Mag, 308, 338 Win Mag. I've shot, I think about three with the 243, a couple with the 6.5x06 and 6.5x55, 0ne with the 338 mag. A ton with the rest.

This bullet placement argument get's really over used as an excuse. I've seen what to many different bullet's do to the inside of a deer. The heavier bullet's generally deliver a much bigger wound channel and in questionable shots, ie Elmer's raking shot, penetrate better. On a deer, penetration really isn't a big factor IF you carefully choose your shot. But the shot placement theory makes the 243 acceptable for Brown Bear! Give me a break! :eek: The truth is that at extream range, thing's do at time's' not go as planned. A hit a bit far back with a 25 cal may well allow the deer to run off wounded to die due to the lack of a large wound channel while the same shot with a heavier bullet, especially driven at equal or higher IMPACT velocity will often yeild a wound channel that will kill the deer much sooner.

nomosendro related that many of his deer walked off some distence when shot a great range. I've found the same even at range's as close as about 35 yds with the 25-06. But I've also found the larger caliber's with mid weight bullet's reduce the walk off distence some AND give much more of these so called "slam bang" kill's.

The 25-06 is a great cartridge but to many people are willing to push it's limit's and credit it with some magic power it does not posess. As a result, to many people that couldn,t hit the barn from inside, get one to make up for their own lack of profecieney. Other's get one thinking it'll, all by itself, make them a long range shooter. Both thoughts are bogus! By getting in these open forum's to let the world know how well YOU shoot, you put out the challange to those people. You make it ok to streach the limit's of what is truely a marginal long range cartridge.

If you look back thru this thread, you'll find someone said something like "hell yes, it'll whack them". I wonder how he know's? Many other's, for and against, made very sound and compelling argument's. We really need to keep in mind that these are open forum's and the better your argument, the more likely someone lacking in skill's is going to do something stipid.

Fortunately for you guy's, I left my battery charger at home and am running low now. See ya!

nomosendero · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2006, 02:01:59 PM »

Don, why are you MISQUOTING me?

I did not say anything about ANY much less many animals "walking off"
some distance after being shot at great range. Great Range? The question is out to 400 yards. The entire statement is false! It is easy for anyone to go back and read the posts. This statement leaves the impression that they were hit lightly, walked a little ways, got queezy & fell over. I have
a safe full of bigger guns, if that were the case even once, I would bring a 300 next time, I spend enough for these trips to not be just playing.
Don, it may be unintentional & you may be tired or something, but please be careful, intentional or not, your statement changed the whole meaning

Here is what I did say, exactly! "We had 4 bang-flops, 4 that ran 5-15 yards & 1 that ran 50 yards". This was in reference to our trip last fall.
Actually, I will take those results anytime, as they were lung shots except for 2 animals & considering the ranges. You can have more bang flops
with high shouder shots & of course every time with spine shots , but that wastes alot of meat. Also, as I stated before, we have had more bang flops with another bullet, but felt it was too soft for best penetration & dropped it.
My results have not been quicker for 300 Mags for Deer size game, of course bigger bullets are better for bigger game, not the subject of this thread. With 1 Mule Deer on his feet for 50 yards, how long do you think that took with him running?
The worst performance that we have seen on these Western Trips was with a 270, a great cartridge but a poor bullet was used, that is the most important factor.
Just to get the record straight.

Now let's look at one of Don's statements early in this thread to ponder.
This was in reference to someone saying a 25 would knock them in the dirt. "I've killed a lot of Deer & if your talking about snatch their feet
out on a regular basis, you loose! If you are talking about at will, your
shooting at the spine". There, I think that quote is accurate.
BTW, I totally agree with Don's comment here. And in view of that the
25 does exactly what it should with the velocities & bullet chosen.

Let's put it this way. If ANYONE has a round that will provide 100% bang-flops from 0-400 yards on Deer & Antelope with all LUNG SHOTS & at
the same time provide total penetration if a bad angle with shoulder first
at 0-400 yards occurs, PLEASE, PLEASE share with us the CARTRIDGE & LOAD & witnesses. I am well into 3 figures with Deer that I have shot, but I am allways willing to learn exciting new stuff.It could turn the shooting sports as we know it on it's ear. Some say they have more faster stops with bigger calibers on Deer, that has not been my personal experience, but it could be yours, as you can have a wide range in results up close with different bullets & velocities & caliber becomes less cut and dried.

roper · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2006, 03:23:48 PM »

Since my deer hunting is in a combination season with elk I use a mag rifle. I purchased acouple 25-06 when they first came out and I wasn't impressed,now have alittle better bullet selection. My antelope rifle is a 6mmremAI if I get a tag this year may use a 6.5x284.
I see all kinds of caliber out in the field and sure wouldn't be any fun if we all shot a 25-06.
I've work sight-in days at our gun club which is open to the public and in 5 yrs I've never seen a guy come out with a 25-06 and I don't know anyone who shoot one. Know afew that shoot a 257AI for antelope and LR varmit shooting.
When I lived in Calif my rifle selection was alot different back then had a 30 plus day deer season now have a 5 day, sometimes you just cann't pick that perfect shot. Well Colorado big game reg just hit the store so need to get my tags in for the draw good luck to all.

nomosendero · « **Reply #39 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:05:34 PM »

Yes roper, you are right, now the 25 Cal. bullet selection is better!

Popularity for cartridges many times is a regional issue, the 25-06 is very
popular in Texas, in much of the South & some of the Mountain States, not so much in some of the others.

NONYA · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2006, 06:42:04 PM »

Well put Don,why do people insist on asking questions about hunting with smaller calibers when they know its a risk?

nomosendero · « **Reply #41 on:** February 16, 2006, 01:42:45 AM »

Nonya
If you mean his 2nd paragraph, I think it is well said also. Shot placement
does not make a 243 a Bear Gun. But since the 25 cal. bullets I use will
have more than adaquate penetration anyway, a marginal hit as he described will still have a sizable wound channel, how big compared to a 30 cal would depend on bullet construction & remaining velocity. Would a marginal hit mean that the Deer travels 800 yards with a EXPANDED 25
cal hole as opposed to 550 yards with a EXPANDED 30 cal hole, well I guess we would have to ask marginal hit experts about that one. If cal. was the determining factor for this situation, then we would skip the 30 also & move up to 460 Wea. or 500 Nitro in case we have a marginal hit.

However, well put or not, the question was Mule Deer out to 400 yards, not
Elk or Brown Bear or Blue Whales. I don't know which question that you regard as a risk, but I have stayed on the original question & if someone
can show me with real numbers or experience how the loads that I have
reccomended are even MARGINAL for this application, then PROVIDE the info & the reasons, not opinions.

I have no problem with anyone who thinks they should use a larger cal.
rifle or are more comfortable doing so. But, to those who are critical of the loads that I use, even though the numbers don't back their view & no personal experience with these loads, then here is my smilley
face.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 16, 2006, 07:32:05 AM »

I ran across this article on doing a net search for the 25-06..the author has some interesting points and I feel fit with Bladerunners original question..

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/shooting_tips/accurate_be/

Mac

bladerunner · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2006, 03:25:58 PM »

THANKS Mac

Don Fischer · « **Reply #44 on:** February 17, 2006, 06:49:10 PM »

nomosendro,

Quote

Here is what I did say, exactly! "We had 4 bang-flops, 4 that ran 5-15 yards & 1 that ran 50 yards". This was in reference to our trip last fall

Thats just what I was refering to. Your experience is the same as mine. Anything over 300 yds in my opinion is at great range. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

nomosendero · « **Reply #45 on:** February 18, 2006, 08:57:10 AM »

Don
It is not my job to know if it was intentional or not, but your changes in
wording of what I supposedly said changed the whole story/message. They cannot be viewed logically as being close to the same. Those that
ran 5-15 yards, let's see maybe 3-4 seconds on their feet. And the one
that you might say was at a great distance, maybe on his feet for 5-6
seconds as a guess. My youngest son graduated from high school last
year & playing on the line, he did the 40 in 4.8, decent for a big kid. Deer
run faster than we can, that is why I use a gun instead of a knife. So, as
a reasonable guess it was 5-6 seconds, and just one Deer that did that.
I will also add that the blood loss was extensive, not important in these
cases but could have been if we were talking about Deer shot at the edge
of woods/thickets. And as I have said before, the quick kill ratio has been
as good with this round as any I have used, which is considerable in number. Actually, our experiences do not sound the same at all.

You said that I had MANY WALK some distance after being shot. Do you
see where this statement is just a teeny weeny different??? :eek:
I wonder what we were supposed to be doing while all of this walking
occured?? I could have shot again or did I order Pizza?? Or maybe I let
them walk because they were going toward the truck.

No, words really do mean things & I am committed to everyone on this
forum to treat their posts with enough respect to either "quote" them
or to make sure that if I reference them that I post accurately as to not
change the original message.
Don, I am sure that you busy just like me & I have no reason to believe
it was intentional, so let's all slow down & be accurate with our words
& with our shooting.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #46 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:13:52 PM »

Words really do mean things so I copied your statement and moved it over here.

Quote

In our trip last Oct, we used the 125 Gr. Wildcat ULD in our AI's. They are
incredible, especially in their ballistic qualities as the fly almost identical to
a 200MK in a 30 cal. We & others in our party used our guns on this trip &
we took 6 Antelope & 3 Mule Deer with this bullet at 3,250 FPS, we had
4 bang-flops, 4 that ran 5-15 yards & 1 that ran about 50 yards.

You didn't say walk, you said ran, see above! I have had very similar experience's but, I've never seen one RUN off 50 yards with a lung shot then fall down (yes, I see you used a 125 wildcat ULD). 50 yds is a long ways for a deer hit in the lungd unless, just maybe your bullet failed. See JJHack's writting on bullet failure in Africa.

He claims that the most failures come from Barnes X bullets. I don't fool with those so I looked them up. Solid copper with a small hollowpoint. My pwn tests years ago showed me that tiny hollow points have a tendicity to close up and not open, making the bullet in effect a spitzer solid. Also those same bullets when failing to open bent in the shank, same as JJHack has found. Bullets I did it with were 25 cal 120 gr Hornadt HP's and 308 cal 168 gr Sierra HP's.

While looking up Barnes, I also found a Cabelas form talking about Barnes X performance. One poster claimes to have researched the Barnes X and says they need an energy level of 1500 to 1600 ft lbs to open and expand properly.

This would suggest that the deer than ran, not walked, off 50 yards may well have been hit well with a bullet that actually failed! Failed in that it went thru the lungs as a spitzer solid. If that is what happened, I wasn't there but words mean things, then it suggest that at some range where the 25-06 looses it's energy below 1500-1600 ft lbs, it becomes unrealiable with certain bullets.

My position os that the 25-06, which I own and love, is at best a 300 yd cartridge. The present 25-06 is my third.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #47 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:19:39 PM »

Words really do mean things so I copied your statement and moved it over here.

Quote

In our trip last Oct, we used the 125 Gr. Wildcat ULD in our AI's. They are
incredible, especially in their ballistic qualities as the fly almost identical to
a 200MK in a 30 cal. We & others in our party used our guns on this trip &
we took 6 Antelope & 3 Mule Deer with this bullet at 3,250 FPS, we had
4 bang-flops, 4 that ran 5-15 yards & 1 that ran about 50 yards.

You didn't say walk, you said ran, see above! I have had very similar experience's but, I've never seen one RUN off 50 yards with a lung shot then fall down (yes, I see you used a 125 wildcat ULD). 50 yds is a long ways for a deer hit in the lungs unless, just maybe your bullet failed. See JJHack's writting on bullet failure in Africa.

He claims that the most failures come from Barnes X bullets. I don't fool with those so I looked them up. Solid copper with a small hollowpoint. My own tests years ago showed me that tiny hollow points have a tendicity to close up and not open, making the bullet in effect a spitzer solid. Also those same bullets when failing to open bent in the shank, same as JJHack has found. Bullets I did it with were 25 cal 120 gr Hornady HP's and 308 cal 168 gr Sierra HP's.

While looking up Barnes, I also found a Cabelas forum talking about Barnes X performance. One poster claimes to have researched the Barnes X and says they need an energy level of 1500 to 1600 ft lbs to open and expand properly.

This would suggest that the deer than ran, not walked, off 50 yards may well have been hit well with a bullet that actually failed, if that bullet has a small hollow point as many UDL's seem to have! Failed in that it went thru the lungs as a spitzer solid. If that is what happened, I wasn't there but words mean things, then it suggest's that at some range where the 25-06 looses it's energy below 1500-1600 ft lbs, it becomes unrealiable with certain bullets.

My position is that the 25-06, which I own and love, is at best a 300 yd cartridge. The present 25-06 is my third. The Ackley version of the 25-06 is a different dog but it uses the same bullets.

nomosendero · « **Reply #48 on:** February 18, 2006, 08:26:59 PM »

Man, what is your problem! I have had many Deer run 50 yards or more through the woods after the shot, I hear them crash & I go get the Deer. This has happened with 30-06 , 7mm Mag. 300 Mag. 44mag, on & on. This has happened up close & at a little distance too. Many times they have a big exit hole & much internal damage. Sometimes with the same shot, same size Deer & same load, they fall right there. Experienced hunters know what I am talking about. This is like saying that Deer don't run after a lung shot at all because it would only take 4-6 seconds to cover 50 yards. On our Wyoming trip last fall, one Deer that was shot by a friend RAN as in RAN for about 100 yards, lung shot by a 270 with a Core Lokt at a distance of 70 Yards. Do you also think that the 270 lost it's juice at
70 yard's or do you think that the Core Lokt fails on Deer at 70 yards, I
don't think so.

BTW, a Wildcat bullet has no relationship at all to a Barnes X in any way!!
Have you ever seen or used one, I would say, No you have not. BTW, the point is soft enough to expand at long rang on Coyotes, so you are wrong again. All of the animals had tissue damage that was extensive & we were pleased, we did not have you in mind, so get over it!

You act like it is odd that a Deer could run after Lung shot?
Allthough I am sure you are a hunter, your statement sounds like one made by someone who does not hunt. Or you are just frustrated with this thread.

Others have stated their opinions & were decent about it without trying
to create issues & I respect their views whether they agree with me or not. Let's move on to other subjects, shall we?

nomosendero · « **Reply #49 on:** February 18, 2006, 08:29:23 PM »

Man, what is your problem! I have had many Deer run 50 yards or more through the woods after the shot, I hear them crash & I go get the Deer. This has happened with 30-06 , 7mm Mag. 300 Mag. 44mag, on & on. This has happened up close & at a little distance too. Many times they have a big exit hole & much internal damage. Sometimes with the same shot, same size Deer & same load, they fall right there. Experienced hunters know what I am talking about. This is like saying that Deer don't run after a lung shot at all because it would only take 4-6 seconds to cover 50 yards. On our Wyoming trip last fall, one Deer that was shot by a friend RAN as in RAN for about 100 yards, lung shot by a 270 with a Core Lokt at a distance of 70 Yards. Do you also think that the 270 lost it's juice at
70 yard's or do you think that the Core Lokt fails on Deer at 70 yards, I
don't think so.

BTW, a Wildcat bullet has no relationship at all to a Barnes X in any way!!
Have you ever seen or used one, I would say, No you have not. BTW, the point is soft enough to expand at long rang on Coyotes, so you are wrong again. All of the animals had tissue damage that was extensive & we were pleased, we did not have you in mind, so get over it!

You act like it is odd that a Deer could run after Lung shot?
Allthough I am sure you are a hunter, your statement sounds like one made by someone who does not hunt. Or you are just frustrated with this thread.

Others have stated their opinions & were decent about it without trying
to create issues & I respect their views whether they agree with me or not. Let's move on to other subjects, shall we?

NONYA · « **Reply #50 on:** February 18, 2006, 10:53:18 PM »

I have had more than one deer with thier heart shot completly out cover 50-100 yards before they drop,thats why Im a big fan of the high front shoulder shot. That is the main reason I prefer a bit larger caliber rifle than the 25-06,yes it will kill a deer at 400 with a good vital shot,but a shoulder shot at 400?Will it penetrate and break the bones?Maybe...Will my 7 mag with a 160 gr Barnes Triple Shock?YES

Mac11700 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 19, 2006, 05:18:04 AM »

I'm no expert on this issue by no means....but from those experts that I have read their stories of..they say the 25-06 is a 400 yard cartridge for deer.Nothing I've read says you have to be picky on the shot at that distance..IE..lung shots only..they all say it's good to that distance..Would I intentionally go for a high shoulder shot at 400 yards..no..at 400 yards even with a 12x scope..your highest percentage/best chance of killing the deer outright is going to be in the heart lung using a centerline hold behind the leg..and depending on the wind...or deer movement..you may wind up with a high shoulder shot...and thats where this paticular bullet will earn it's keep.It still has the energy to bust thru heavy bones to reach the vitas and harvest the deer.Now..what difference does it make if they travel 5' or 50yards??? At 400 yards this is damn good..no matter if your using a Lazzeroni..or a simple 25-06...sheeeese :roll:

Mac

nomosendero · « **Reply #52 on:** February 19, 2006, 05:32:06 AM »

Nonya
I think that all of us who have shot alot of Deer have seen some of them
take off with their Heart, Lungs or both wiped out & you wonder how in
the world do they do that.
You are 100% right about the high shoulder shot. I use that shot if I am hunting close to property that I cannot hunt on or if I am hunting near
a clearcut/thicket down South. You have to crawl to get into some of those
& you don't want to do that in briars. If I am hunting in AR.woods or plains
like we do in Wyoming, I will lung shoot them as we will see them fall anyway & we will not lose any meat. From your pictures, it looks like you
may be hunting over in the mountains & I would probably go for the
shoulder in some of those cases.
You are also right to express concern about doing this at 400 yards with
a 25-06, at least with regular loads. I would not do this with 100 grain loads unless the TSX. With the bullets we have gone to, 120 Nosler Part., 115TSX & now the 125 Wildcat, yes I would as they penetrate very well.
The 120 Nos. has the same Sectional Density as a 140 Gr. 270, .260 vs.261 & the 125 Wildcat has a SD of about .270, about the same as
a 180 30 caliber. So yes, with these bullets & pushed hard so that they
are still going strong at long range. They are more than marginal. I can see only 3 or 4 factory loads that would be acceptable, above marginal for those longer range shoulder shots.
Nonya, this is why I have said from the beginning yes, but with the
conditions & type of equipment stated.
I sure don't see a problem with anyone who would rather use a little more
for this, as I held that view for several years. But what I was shown by my
brother and others who were using this set-up first combined with new
bullets & powders for more velocity & well it changed things quite a bit.

bladerunner · « **Reply #53 on:** February 20, 2006, 12:13:03 AM »

Mac..... :agree: :toast:

I've turned BOTH lungs into jelly on deer and seen them run 100 yards....I've also seen them just drop from the same shot.
seen 'em run 50-75 with no heart....and drop in their tracks on other occasions

I'm not concerned about a deer "running" as long as he leaves a red river to follow

sorry guys,but a 25-06 IS a 400 yard mule deer round.......and yes,there are other rounds that hit much harder but they aren't "nessasary"
everybody hunt with what you want to,but that doesn't make other rounds wrong

NONYA · « **Reply #54 on:** February 20, 2006, 01:20:08 AM »

If all I had to use was a 25-06 I would make it work but I wouldnt buy one for the purpose of shooting big deer at 400 yards.If you knew this was going to be a longrange deer gun why would you,what if hes 450?500?I have dropped deer with one shot at close to 600,I wouldnt even consider that shot with a 25-06.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #55 on:** February 20, 2006, 04:45:45 AM »

I have as much room to practice as you do Nonya and when I'm home, do it a lot. I don't even concider a shot over around 300 yds. Not because I couldn't do it but because but I just don't believe in shooting at any animal that might get wounded at those ranges. I've read your posts here and on the other site. I don't think you hunt with looking for a long range shot in mind. I detest those that go looking for it, the amimal deserves better.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:07:46 AM »

Quote from: Don Fischer

I have as much room to practice as you do Nonya and when I'm home, do it a lot. I don't even concider a shot over around 300 yds. Not because I couldn't do it but because but I just don't believe in shooting at any animal that might get wounded at those ranges. I've read your posts here and on the other site. I don't think you hunt with looking for a long range shot in mind. I detest those that go looking for it, the amimal deserves better.

Don:

I usually agree with on not shooting over 300 yards...but..there are times when a person has no chance of getting closer and it may be that persons only oppourtunity to take a shot..and if that person and his rifle are capable of making the shot..it is up to that individuals hunting ethics to determine the " When & Where" he pulls the trigger.While you may detest the fact of a person intentionally hunting long range..many a folk do this on a regular basis...and as long as the animal is harvested cleanly and humanely it shouldn't be a problem....

Mac

nomosendero · « **Reply #57 on:** February 20, 2006, 12:25:27 PM »

Nonya
I agree that I would rather have somewhat more at 500 or more, but that
is irrelevant here as the question was out to 400 yards. A person has to
have a self imposed limit somewhere & if a hunter decides that out to
400 he will shoot & beyond 400 he will not, then that hunter is the one that we have been talking about all along.

I have a 300 Mag Sendero that is capable to yardages way beyond the
distance that I will shoot game animals. I have not needed more range on
our Wyoming trips than I have utilized. If I hunt somewhere else later,
who knows. In some situations, I may decide for a little longer shot with
the 300 that is up to alot of factors & it is not up to others to decide what
I can do or what you can do, but rather it is our own responsibility as
ethical hunters to know our limits.

I read articles & hear people say that they know the limits that a hunter
should shoot. Oh, they know the exact yardage for everyone, which is
quite silly. In reality,some people with well tuned guns who know what they are doing can shoot better at 400 yards than some can at 200, in fact if you go to a public range, you will see people that should not shoot AT Deer at 100 yards.

Don says that he doesn't shoot at animals over 300 yards. Well, there is
nothing in the World wrong with that idea. There is no reason to shoot
beyond the range that you want to shoot. I don't either. I have heard
& read about those who deliberately shoot at long range, but I have
never hunted with someone who sets-up just for these shots.

Well, it appears that we have worn out the original subject & are now going all over the place. I have enjoyed it.
Good shooting!!

nomosendero · « **Reply #58 on:** February 20, 2006, 12:28:51 PM »

Nonya
I agree that I would rather have somewhat more at 500 or more, but that
is irrelevant here as the question was out to 400 yards. A person has to
have a self imposed limit somewhere & if a hunter decides that out to
400 he will shoot & beyond 400 he will not, then that hunter is the one that we have been talking about all along.

I have a 300 Mag Sendero that is capable to yardages way beyond the
distance that I will shoot game animals. I have not needed more range on
our Wyoming trips than I have utilized. If I hunt somewhere else later,
who knows. In some situations, I may decide for a little longer shot with
the 300 that is up to alot of factors & it is not up to others to decide what
I can do or what you can do, but rather it is our own responsibility as
ethical hunters to know our limits.

I read articles & hear people say that they know the limits that a hunter
should shoot. Oh, they know the exact yardage for everyone, which is
quite silly. In reality,some people with well tuned guns who know what they are doing can shoot better at 400 yards than some can at 200, in fact if you go to a public range, you will see people that should not shoot AT Deer at 100 yards.

Don says that he doesn't shoot at animals over 300 yards. Well, there is
nothing in the World wrong with that idea. There is no reason to shoot
beyond the range that you want to shoot. I don't either. I have heard
& read about those who deliberately shoot at long range, but I have
never hunted with someone who sets-up just for these shots.

Well, it appears that we have worn out the original subject & are now going all over the place. I have enjoyed it.
Good shooting!!

NONYA · « **Reply #59 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:32:37 PM »

I never go out looking for these long shots,I just want to have the option if it arises.If i have been stalking a nice buck and hes 600 yards away and about to leave the country or cross into land I cant access Im taking the shot,I have a few times and never regreted it,we practice at 100 yard intervals out to 600 almost every time we shoot our hunting rifles so the difficult part isnt making the hit its estimating the proper range,with my bushnell yardage pro that is no longer a problem :wink: