25-06 for big mulies

[rockbilly]

NONYA.  To say you have never lost an animal is great, but undoubtably your hunting experience is limited or you would not be able to make such a statement.  I shoot as well as most people, and have killed deer sized game with everything from a .222 to a 400 Nitro Express.  Most of the hunters I share field time with are very experienced in hunting all kinds of game, and I have know some of them, myself included, to loose an animal on occassion.

I say the 25-06 is acceptable for mule deer, and don't think a 400 yard shot is out of range for an experienced hunter.  I have a friend in Cortez, CO who makes regular elk kills at 2-3 hundred yards with a .243.  But he is well experienced and can shoot a knat of a fence post at 100 yards.  Neither  of these guns would be MY choice for mule deer at 400 yards, but, in my opinion,  it is not unreasonable for those that have experience to use them.

By the way, what kind of 7mm do you shoot that does not kick?  I am 6'2, 240 pounds, in fairly good shape for a man my age, yet my 7mm Sako kicks the snot of me.  What am I doing wrong? :wink:

[NONYA]

My hunting experience is limited?I have been hunting big game since I was 11 and i have taken a minimum of 1 deer every year since then,an elk almost every year since i was 14,about a dozen black bear,1-5 antelope every year,ect ect,you calll that limited?You dont believe a hunter can hunt 20 years without loosing a deer?Well guess what I DID.My 7 mag doesnt kick at all compared to my 300 wm,its a custom from the remington custom shop.I have neve3r lost a wounded big game animal and if you dont believe me i dont give a damn.

[rockbilly]

Nonya.  I did not say I don't believe you.  If you have accomplished this goal you are a very lucky young man.  I have been hunting for well over 50 years, I have been blessed by being able to hunt many diffrent types of game all over the world.  Every place I travel I hear tales of game lost by very experienced hunters.  I would place a bet today, if you continue to hunt, at some point an animal will be lost.  The law of average is against you, even though you place the shot in the high heart/lung area, one day you will watch as one just keeps on running, and you never find it.

Every time I have shot an animal that I could not retrieve, I was physically ill.  But it happens, matter of fact it has happened to me several times.  

By the way, Mega Ball is up to 212 million tonight, with your luck maybe you should consider buying a ticket. :roll:

[NONYA]

I have shot animals that needed follow up shots and tracking but I have never lost one,I spent a day and a half looking for a spike elk I shot in the side of the head/neck and finally found it,thats the closest i have come to loosing gameI think most people give up way to soon when looking for thier game,I have seen people shoot a deer,look for 15 minutes and be ready to write it off as a miss,twice i have returned to a spot with a friend and used my springer spaniel to recover thier down deer.I dont think luck as nearly as much to do with it as being sure of your shot and being dedicate to finding your game no matter how long it takes,after you locate the animal luck has nothing to with it.

[Mac11700]

Nonya..Good job of  tracking: agree:

You know. The old saying “A man has to know his limits”. Well that is true. Some folks are quite capable of taking deer at “Long Range” and if for some reason. the shot doesn't turn out the best. they want to point fingers at them and make accusations...saying that is un-ethical. And they want to attach some sort of stigma on being able to do this. These ill-informed folks go on rants on several forums. Putting folks down...strange...They seem to be judging others here and applying their warped standards to someone else. What would have been un-ethical ?That  would be if Nonya hadn't persevered and if he hadn’t tracked his elk down after taking the shot...but he didn't...Sometimes Crap Happens..even when the yardage is much closer...I would be willing to make a wager to anyone here...I'll bet more deer are lost by slob hunters at ranges under 200 yards who unload the rifles at animals..missing completely or wounding the animal and never actually trailing the animal ..Than by folks who regular practice shooting at long ranges and know their rifle & load and their tracking abilities well ...they make statements like this on other forums here...

I've never though the Magnums of any kind were necessary for any game. It had occured to me tho that for large game, they were a bit better with heavier bullet's. I'm not so sure that's why people get them anymore tho. Seem's like everyone that likes magnums also likes shooting at extream ranges. Sadly the ability of these cartridges to deliver tremendious power at normal ranges has been over shadowed by their ability to deliver normal power at tremendious ranges.

So we see many people who are more than willing to lob bullet's at game animals with low percentage extended range shots that always have good reasons for why they do it. Elsewhere in this site, one guy braggs that he'll take the shot at 600 yds then a few posts later tells of an elk he wounded and had to track for a day and a half. Only an indian can do that!

One of the interesting things is that he doesn't tell us at what range he wounded the elk! Yet he's a rare bird as usually people that do this ugly thing they like to call "long range hunting", never ever tell you of their flubbed shots and then only if they recover the animal.

They speak of great custom bullet's of great ballistic coefficent and sectional density and how they practice at these extended ranges. That makes shooting at game animals at extended ranges acceptable. They never concider that their target is no longer a piece af paper but a live animal they're hunting for sport! They talk about doing this thing "cleanly and humanely". Must be as they never miss place a bullet, they never pull a shot and they never miss judge the wind!

Success is generally judged by making a kill, humanely or otherwise. That means something dies, humanely or otherwise. Of course if the game is a grizzly that blind sides the hunter and eats him, the hunt is called unsuccessful. For who? Seems like the bear is eating!

At some point I really wish we'd all get back to condeming these "long range SHOOTERS". For shooters is all they really are, they just trade paper for hide. Quite a ways off topic I guess and I'm sorry but this is something that really really upsets me.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=87260

Mac

[NONYA]

That spike was shot at about 80 yards in thick timber,he was coming straight down hill towards me,as I took the shot he swung his head to the side and the bullet cught his cheek blowing off the side of his head and lodging in the neck,he left a constant blood trail in a new skiff of snow for SEVERAL miles,mostly up hill,I followed him until dusk and decided to let him be for the night,as long as I kept after him i knew he wouldnt stop,when I found him the next day he was still standing and required a final shot.I was shooting a 30-06 at the time,if I had been using my 7mag the bullet would have broken his neck instead of lodging against the spine,even at 80 yards a magnum rifle can make a BIG difference.

[Mac11700]

Nonya:

It's a good thing you didn't just give up on him..like so many other folks would have done if faced with a simalar situation..I've seen a-lot of these so-called once a year hunters just blast away at anything that moves..and then don't bother following up on their shots.. it's one of my main pet peeves when having to deal with public hunting land around here  :x to me these type hunters are demonstrating un-ethical behaviour...not someone who knows the distance he and and his set-up are capable of shooting accurately at..and taking a controlled 400 yard shot at a deer......The best of shots will sooner or later have something go wrong at any distance...and when you pull the trigger..you have to see it thru to completion..just as you did..again..Good Job :agree:

Mac

[Don Fischer]

NONYA said:

why dont you work on your stalking skills instead so you wont have to worry about taking 400 yard shots with a 200 yard gun.

So why don't you work on your stalking skills so you don't have to wound animals with your 600 yds rifle? Anyone good enough to even concider shooting at GAME at 600 yds should be certain death at 200 yds!

I can't believe this started over a question on the 25-06 as a 400 yd deer cartridge. So HELL YA! It'll kill deer farther away than even NONYA can wound them! HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!! If it feels good, DO IT!!!!!!!!! :evil:

[Don Fischer]

NONYA said:

why dont you work on your stalking skills instead so you wont have to worry about taking 400 yard shots with a 200 yard gun.

Well,

So why don't you work on your stalking skills so you don't have to wound animals with your 600 yds rifle? Anyone good enough to even concider shooting at GAME at 600 yds should be certain death at 200 yds!

I can't believe this started over a question on the 25-06 as a 400 yd deer cartridge. So HELL YA! It'll kill deer farther away than even NONYA can wound them! HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!! If it feels good, DO IT!!!!!!!!! :evil:

[Don Fischer]

NONYA said, which is probally the best advice I've read here;

why dont you work on your stalking skills instead so you wont have to worry about taking 400 yard shots with a 200 yard gun.

Well,

So why don't you work on your stalking skills so you don't have to wound animals with your 600 yd rifle? Anyone good enough to even concider shooting at GAME at 600 yds should be certain death at 200 yds!

I can't believe this started over a question on the 25-06 as a 400 yd deer cartridge. So HELL YA! It'll kill deer farther away than even NONYA can wound them! HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!! If it feels good, DO IT!!!!!!!!! :evil:

[NONYA]

DON have you sprung a leak?I dont even know how to respond to that rant so i wont,take your pills Don!

[Mac11700]

NONYA said, which is probally the best advice I've read here;

why dont you work on your stalking skills instead so you wont have to worry about taking 400 yard shots with a 200 yard gun.

Well,

So why don't you work on your stalking skills so you don't have to wound animals with your 600 yd rifle? Anyone good enough to even concider shooting at GAME at 600 yds should be certain death at 200 yds!

I can't believe this started over a question on the 25-06 as a 400 yd deer cartridge. So HELL YA! It'll kill deer farther away than even NONYA can wound them! HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!! If it feels good, DO IT!!!!!!!!! :evil:

Your right Don..it is kinda hard to believe all of this is over taking a whitetail with a 25-06 at 400 yards and all the BS you have posted in doing just that..Most people that actually use a 25-06 already know the rifle is capable of doing this..add in the fact of new bullets that are becoming available to handloaders,make it even better..and to ease your fears on this somewhat..people shouldn't rush out and buy a 25-06 just to go blasting deer at that range...they should practice and practice a-lot at this distance from every position they will use in the field when hunting.

A simple question was asked..and some new information was presented..and I want to thank nomosendaro for that.." Richard is going to build me some to my specs" Thank You

Don:

You stated this early

The 25-06 is a great cartridge but to many people are willing to push it's limit's and credit it with some magic power it does not posess. As a result, to many people that couldn,t hit the barn from inside, get one to make up for their own lack of profecieney. Other's get one thinking it'll, all by itself, make them a long range shooter. Both thoughts are bogus! By getting in these open forum's to let the world know how well YOU shoot, you put out the challange to those people. You make it ok to streach the limit's of what is truely a marginal long range cartridge.

You fears are really unfounded..there will always be people who shoot outside their range of ability..it's a fact of life....but..I've found the vast majority of people I've met here are good deceant people and they come here to either talk about what they have done or share information..or to learn something new...You've relayed to me via PM that you are scared people will read what has been posted about the 25-06 and misinterpete what we are saying ..well..quite frankly..your the only one doing that..and when you go off on people for and start calling them un-ethical for shooting within their abilities..you plain make a fool out of yourself.No-one here is talking about shooting at 1000 yards or further...or building super magnums to do it...and most of us have a good idea of what we are doing..and know every shot we take isn't going to be picture perfect...now..if you can't bring yourself to understand different folks feel vastly different about the harvesting of game animals..perhaps you should reconsider your own posting style and consider using different wording to get "your message" across..to say you detest someone for them not shooting as you do is pretty...well..lame....I apparently haven't any your lofty ideals..I'm not shooting my family pet when I go out and hunt..I'm hunting something I am going to eat....When I pull the trigger..I'll will track that animal down until I know for certain it wasn't hit or has been on a few occassions on public land..someone took it...I know the meat won't be wasted and put to good use either feeding the hungry..or feeding my family..or both depending on how many I shoot.I'm a trophy hunter..and a meat hunter..I want a nice rack when I go..but won't hesitate to take a doe when the time comes..and if my only oppourtunity to do so comes at 400 yards..then so be it..I'll do my best to get closer mind you..but if I can't and conditions are right..then I'll take the shot..

Mac

[NONYA]

Amen Mac! I buy several surplus doe tags every year (deer and antelope),usually 4-5 of each,this way I can help thin doe numbers in the areas that are overpopulated and fill the freezer with meat during the first couple weeks of the season.Its not hard to get access to easy to hunt ranch's when you are just asking to hunt does,most ranchers say you can hunt antelope,AS LONG as you shoot a dozen of em!.Once the freezer is full i can take that buck tag out of the vault and start looking for something to hang on the wall.If Im after a wallhanger and I have to take a long shot to get him Im going to take it, pre season practice at these ranges make it possible,if you practice these ranges it becomes second nature,and you can miss a shot at 100 yards if you dont practice as well.If you are not comfortable taking a long range shot dont do it,but dont hack on those hunters who have worked hard to become proficent at long range,when you hunt deer in wide open country like I do it will make the difference of wether you get a trophy deer every year.

[Norseman112]

Wow what an interesting thread here on one of my favorite calibers. I love the 25-06. Mac and Nonya I agree with what you both are saying. I hunt mule deer. Lets see if I had a shot at 400 yards and its all I had would I take it with my 25-06? Yes I would. I do practice at that range and I also would not feel under gunned. I to always try and stalk as close as I can. I do use a 300 win for out west to.  I do bring both rifles with me. I do harvest a doe or two myself every year.

John

[nomosendero]

I have been in a meeting down in Houston for the past several days & I see that this thread is still kicking!
Nonya, we allways buy some Doe tags when we get to Wyoming & in that area they sure need some Does harvested. Besides most of the hunters
in our group are life long hunters & Whitetail Venison has been a big part
of our diet most of our lives.
Norseman112, your prefered weapons sound alot like mine, I also use a
300WM, not on these Wyoming trips but if the hunt involves Elk, then
the 300 becomes my favored weapon.

[Norseman112]

Hey Nomosendero  

Yep I use my 300 WM for elk, its also a nice caliber. It has served as a dual purpose gun a couple of times.

John

[NONYA]

The MT F&G just passed the 2006 rules and they limited the number of doe antelope tags to 2 per person,we can still buy 7 muley doe tags,they also got rid of all the custom made seasons they had in these areas owned by big money out of state owners,now if they want thier elk herds controlled they will have to allow more access during the 5 week general season because they wont be getting early and late hunts for cow elk,they want to hunt bulls and outfitt during the general season and use us locals as a management tool to hunt cows when they are done,not no more....

[Norseman112]

I hear ya Nonya, not sure how much longer I will be hunting out west ( getting to expensive and land is hard to get on. I always to hunted with 2 other friends, but now they are telling me they won't go this year, wanna save there money this year (that and getting older). So I think I may just hunt nebraska for mule deer this year (solo).  I really like mule deer hunting. I did get a doe tag along with my buck tag but the rancher said shoot a doe if you like, but  he wanted me to take a white tail and not a mule deer doe.

John

[NONYA]

With Montanas block managment programs access to good hunting is getting easier and easier every year for the common joe,you can call and request tyhe new BM books when they come out this summer.

[JD338]

bladerunner,

Load up your 25-06 witha good bullet like the 115 gr Nosler partition and you will have a 400 yd big mule deer rifle.
The 25-06 has more than enough power with the right bullet to kill deer and caribou at long range.

JD338

[smokepolehall]

OK yes a 25/06 will reach out to 400 yds. and kill the big Muledeer, we all know good shot placement and bullets. Plus lots of practice, loading charts say it has the energy and flat traj. to do the job. It maynot be everyone's pick, but it will do it! :-)

[nomosendero]

smokepolehall
I see that you joined us Monday of this week. Welcome to GB!!  

[Todd1700]

(Redhawk 1 said) Let's not assume that because someone the uses a large magnum, that they can't shoot them.

Didn't mean to imply that Redhawk. Sorry if it sounded that way. I know that many people shoot even the largest magnums quite well.

(Don Fisher said) But the shot placement theory makes the 243 acceptable for Brown Bear! Give me a break!

No, I can't agree there and don't think anyone has implied such a thing. A brown bear is much bigger and tougher than a deer sized animal. And although I'm sure a 243 to the ribs would eventually be lethal to even a brown bear I would prefer that my shot be lethal before he ripped my spleen out through my colon. The original question was about mule deer not 1000 lb bears.

(Don Fisher said) 50 yds is a long ways for a deer hit in the lungs unless, just maybe your bullet failed.

Hmmm, don't know what kind of deer youv'e been shooting but even our smallish Alabama deer commonly run 50 to 70 yards center punched through the lungs with even large magnum calibers. I've seen them go amazing distances with wounds that inspired me to stand over them and ponder, "How in the hell...." The only consitent bang flop shot is either to the brain or spine. I've killed them with almost every common caliber between a 243 and a 300 win mag and outside the aforementioned brain/spine shot I have found no caliber/bullet combo that drops them right there every time.

(JD 338 said) Load up your 25-06 with a good bullet like the 115 gr Nosler partition and you will have a 400 yd big mule deer rifle

It has been my experience that bullet type is just as important to consistent pentration on game animals than the caliber being used. Example: I have a friend who uses a 300 WSM for deer hunting. He's shot 5 deer in the past 2 years with it. He has gotten exactly one pass through on 5 broadside shots. He uses a 150 gr ballistic tip.  I have been using my 25-06 for 3 years and killed 6 deer using a 115 gr Nosler Partition. I've yet to lose a deer or recover a bullet with this combo.

On the flip side someone in this thread said that a bigger caliber was better on marginal hits because it created a bigger wound channel and did more damage. Well all other things being equal yes but I have seen toughly constructed bullets like a Barnes X-bullet out of a 7mm mag do less damage to a deers vitals than a soft more frangible bullet from a 243. Again proving that bullet type is as important as caliber when making statements of that type.

[killdeer]

Well..............ran out of popcorn but just found some Junior Mints. :grin:
You boys all warmed my lil heart with this thread.
 Now, back to the original question at hand............Two ol boys is driving the backroads (huntin) when they spies some likely critters (insert target species here). Jump out and commence slinging lead at distant critters at 220 yds or 460 yds with a 25-06. Since none of the critters actually drop, its back in the truck for more huntin. The 25-06 is clearly not enough gun.......... But I hazard a guess the regular posters on this board don't operate like that and when one of you post that the 25-06 is plenty at 400 yds, with proper bullet construction, range finder, quality optics and other ancillary equipment, experience doping wind and plenty of experience, I have no doubt of said cartridges ability or yours.
  Truth is the cartridge mentioned is more than adequate for the task at hand. We all have our own set of limitations based upon our own experiences and weakest link in the equation is likely not the cartridge.
Sometimes it is hard not to project our own limitations upon other posters.
 I'm thinkin 400 yds. might could be conservative for a rare few under the right conditions.
  I would love to hunt with some of you guys out west. I'll even carry your gear for a glass of chocolate milk. :grin:
Now back to you regularly scheduled programming........


KD

[nomosendero]

And Killdeer, I think that it would be great. But short term at least, my group is family except for 2 who are life long friends. We are a group of 8, four to a truck for the journey. We hunt on a ranch who lets only  us hunt while we are there & we had to talk him into 8, as our group years ago was 6.
But you never know what the future holds. If I could ever gain the intellegence to quit working I could go more than once per year. I wish
that several of us could get together & do a hunt someday, I think that would be a blast.
BTW, I am too Rednecked or maybe Brownnecked to know that some
hunters have there gear carried & the chocolate milk would on me!