Author Topic: Friction Primer help  (Read 2788 times)

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Offline Kuntrykouple

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Friction Primer help
« on: January 27, 2006, 08:07:02 PM »
Im looking for any information on making my own friction primers any help would be appreciated
thanks
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Offline guardsgunner

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 01:01:34 AM »
In the reference area there is a link to the Atrillerist Manual by John Gibbon. Very detailed info.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Friction Primer help
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2006, 02:34:11 AM »
Quote from: Kuntrykouple
Im looking for any information on making my own friction primers any help would be appreciated
thanks


KK -  WELCOME to the board.  You've started right, by asking a question.  There is a thread or two here on friction primers, but they may not cover the manufacturing of them.  Try the search function. (I assume you've looked through the sticky on where-to-find....

Post some pictures of what y'all shoot - if you're into MAKING friction primers you've probably fired a round or two.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline GGaskill

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2006, 10:13:25 AM »
There was a very good webpage on making friction primers but I can't find it any more.  I had a copy of it on my web server that crashed so that is no help.  It may be on another computer of mine that is out of service right now but at least the disk drive is still OK.  If it's there, I will post it when my dead computers have been resurrected.
GG
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Offline guardsgunner

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2006, 02:45:42 PM »

Offline Kuntrykouple

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2006, 06:45:42 PM »
Thanks for the help,


Quote
Post some pictures of what y'all shoot - if you're into MAKING friction primers you've probably fired a round or two.


Yea we have fired a round or two. At the moment i have produced a  golfball coehorn and two fully rifled full scale mountain howitzers we also have a  6 pound field and a 12 napoleon, a 2 golfball mt howitzers, 12lb Coehorn, multiple 1/4 scale brass coehorns, a couple 1/4 scale brass howitzers... etc.  i have the carriages nearly finnished on the  full scale  guns just tinkering with the hardware as i go ( when i have the time)
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Offline Kuntrykouple

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2006, 08:03:06 PM »


1/4 Scale Coehorn
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Offline Kuntrykouple

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2006, 08:05:53 PM »

Unfinnesh Napoleon: 4.62" bore, We went with Steel hubs with roller bearings and  rubber tires  becuase this one will be pulled in parades!
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Offline Kuntrykouple

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2006, 08:10:55 PM »
 
Firing a Golfball Coehorn
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Offline Kuntrykouple

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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2006, 08:15:48 PM »

And here is my pride and Joy i have twins of these we have not had a chance to Build the carriages for them yet  but they should be quite a sight! we are working on the carriage for the 6pnd field gun now should set the barrel on  today! will get some pictures in  as soon as i can
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Offline Kuntrykouple

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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2006, 08:24:43 PM »

Oops one more ;)
One of my Golfball Mt. Howitzers
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Offline Dictator

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2006, 04:58:07 AM »
That little Mt. Howitzer is a cutie. Any firing pics for it? Who made the barrel?

PS guys, I'll post it on another topic also, but I have the dates for the live-fire shoot in Casper, Wy. It's June 17-18

Joe

Offline Powder keg

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2006, 05:19:08 AM »
Hey KK,

First off, Welcome to the forum!!! Very Nice work! You are among friends here.

Tell us the story on those rifled tubes? Did you do the rifeling? If so, we want details.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Later, Wes
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Custom Machine work done reasonable. I have a small machine shop and foundry. Please let me build your stuff. I just added Metal etching to my capabilities. I specialize in custom jobs.
"When the gun is lost, All is lost"

Offline Kuntrykouple

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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2006, 06:18:44 AM »
no i did not do the rifling, the barrel is carbon steel that has been heat treated, we  were extremely lucky finding the barrel (after 15 yrs of calling and searching) from a scrap buyer. The barrel was originally 7'6" off the front of the barrel off of a 105mm howitzer. We cut the barrel in two and plugged them both machined  the trunnions, cascable, and  then we pressed the barrel into the "rings" or sleeves that make the shape of the Mt. howitzer then weld, grind, file, fill and paint. i saw in another post that  some use bondo for filler, we have stopped using bondo and started using JB Weld for final finnishing we had a cannon when fired the precussion popped the bondo off we have not had any trouble with the JB we just spread it out with out fingers then feather sand it! It seems to be working alright! And i have enough of the barrel left over to make a rifled Coehorn  :)   but just have not had the time yet i have multiple cannon projects going at once!

Quote
That little Mt. Howitzer is a cutie. Any firing pics for it? Who made the barrel?


I built the barrel  on the little mt howitzer also. i dont have a firing picture at the moment but give me a day or so and ill take one!
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Offline GGaskill

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2006, 01:39:12 PM »
Here is the first part of the lost Friction Primer page:


Friction Primer for Cannon (1863)

The friction primer for cannon is a small brass tube filled with gunpowder,
which is ignited by drawing a rough wire briskly through friction composition,
contained in a smaller tube inserted into the first, near the top, and soldered
at right angles to it. A lanyard, with a hook attached, is used to ignite the
primer.

The friction primer is composed of 1 large tube; 1 short tube; 1 wire rubber;
friction composition; musket powder; wax.

The long tube is made from a circular disk of No. 19 sheet-brass, 0.62 inch in
diameter, by means of a series of 5 punches and dies, gradually diminishing in
size to the last, which is of the required size of the tube. The brass must be
annealed before each punching.

The tube is cut to the prescribed length, measuring from the closed end, by
means of a circular saw, and the holes for the short tube and wire rubber are
drilled, and the burrs removed. Length of the long tube, 1.75 inch; exterior
diameter, .19 inch; interior diameter; interior diameter, .175 inch; diameter of
holes, .15 inch and .06 inch.

The short tube is formed from the long one by using two additional punches and
dies. reducing the size each time. It is cut to the proper length by circular
saws placed a the required distance apart, and the burr removed by rolling in a
barrel. Length of the short tube, 0.44 inch; exterior diameter, 0.15 inch;
interior diameter, .133 inch.

One end of the short tube is dipped into a solution of chloride of zinc,
inserted in the hole drilled in the long tube, heated to redness in the flame of
a spirit lamp, and soldered with a soft solder; it is then washed and dried.

The wire rubber is made of No. 16 brass wire, annealed, cut to the proper
length, and pressed flat a one end by a machine for that purpose. The flat end
is trimmed by a punch and die with dentated edges, and the tip is annealed ;in
the flame of a spirit lamp. Length of wire, 3.4 inches; length of flattened
end, 0.65 inch.

The friction composition is made of 2 parts of the sulphuret of antimony1 and 1
part of the chlorate of potassa2, moistened with gummed water - 50 grains of gum
arabic in 2 ounces of water to 1 pound of composition.

The materials are first pulverized separately, mixed together dry, moistened
with the gum water, and ground in an iron mill, such as is used for grinding
paint.

Charging and Varnishing. - The small tube is charged by pressing the open end
in the friction composition spread on a flat piece of iron and brought to the
consistency of soft putty, the long tube being closed its whole length with a
wooden or metal plug.

A conical hole is made in the composition, while yet moist, with a conical
drift, and the surplus composition removed; the wire rubber is passed through
the short tube and through the small hole in the long tube, the round end first,
leaving the annealed tip projecting out the open end, which is then closed by
pressing the top and bottom together firmly with pincers, and bending the tip
against the bottom.

The end of the wire rubber is doubled on itself and twisted, leaving a loop 0.2
inch diameter, and then bent alongside the long tube for packing.

The head of the long tube, including the short tube and the joint, is dipped
into shellac varnish colored with lampblack.

When dry, the long tube is filled with musket powder and closed with beeswax,
mixed with 1/3 its weight of pitch.

Both ends are touched with varnish and the tube thoroughly dried.

Packing - The tubes are first put up in bundles of 10 each, wrapped in water
proof paper; 10 bundles are packed in a tin box, painted or japanned: 100 tin
boxes are packed in a box made of 1-inch white pine boards, dovetailed.

The contents of the time box, place and year of fabrication, are stamped on the
lid, and the number of the box marked on the front side. The contents of the
wooden box, are marked on each end.

1Sulphuret of Antimony: The modern name for this is Antimony Trisulfide or
Antimony Sulfide.

2Chlorate of Potassa: The modern name for this is Potassium Chlorate.

If you can read Scandinavian languages, http://www.chem.au.dk/~kemishow/brevkasse/fireworks.html" target="_blank">this page also references Joksch's old Friction Primer page.
GG
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Offline opatriot

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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2006, 04:31:14 PM »
HOWDY.. KK .....Welcome from another graybeard nubee .....nice work..!!.....you sound like me self ...with ten projects goin at one time ........wonder why we dont see more barrels  made from surplus guns..??...........are they that hard to find....?? ........your fellow enthusiast in this grand adventure ...!!!!  .......      davey
............................. DAVEY  (OPATRIOT)  ....................................................................       WHAT IS POPULAR IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOT ALWAYS POPULAR ...

Offline Kuntrykouple

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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2006, 06:56:48 AM »
Thank you GGaskill, But that seems like  a hll'uva lot of work for a 75cnt piece and have no idea how much time (just from looking at the details of the instruction)  :eek:

OP: hi yea tis like a cat covering... well ya get the idea :wink:
and as far as the barrel we have never seen another (cause we would have bought it!!!) and it took us along time searching to  find one. i think we have decided to sell one barrel and keep the other wife says i have too much money in what i have now... i think she has some wires loose crossed or she has just  popped a gasket SHHH dont tell her i said that! how can ya have to many cannons, i told her they are investments. she aint buyn' it
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Offline Double D

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Friction Primer help
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2006, 07:23:26 AM »
We have link to a Friction Primer dealer on the resource list at the top of this forum.

Cannon Ltd


You also reminded me of a link for large caliber surplus artillery tubes. I have just added this new catagory to the list.

Surplus large bore rifled barrels

Big Sky Surplus

Offline GGaskill

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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2006, 01:27:27 PM »
The missing half of the web page went into making them from modern materials, in particular using the brass tubing available in hobby stores instead of rolling your own.  But you are right, you can buy them already made.  It's really a question of whether you have more time than money. (-:

But one could say that about making your own barrels and carriages, too.  To each his own.

You can see the whole (well, almost the whole) of the original Friction Primers web page now.
GG
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Offline Double D

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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2006, 03:39:15 PM »
Doesn't appear to be missing to me George...

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Friction Primer help
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2012, 09:40:00 AM »
The modern half was missing from post #14 above.
GG
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Offline Double D

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Re: Friction Primer help
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 05:04:15 AM »
In my earlier post on friction primers, I deliberately did not respond to this post, but instead pulled a quote from it.

Since this post has now been brought to the top I will warn you that KountryKouple and Missouri Cannon Works are banned from GBO
and were shut down for criminal fraud by the  Missouri Attorney General Office.  Several members of this forum lost large sums of money to this company.