Author Topic: New sights: Williams vs. XS vs. tang sight? (Read 1265 times)

dawgvet · « **on:** January 28, 2006, 05:47:01 AM »

I have a top eject mod 94 in 30-30 with just the standard barrel-mounted blade sight. Am looking to replace with receiver sight or tang mounted peep sight. It will be used for hunting in thick woods. Was considering Williams FP, XS ghost ring, and Lyman No. 2 tang sight. I was concerned about quick shots with a peep sight, especially the tang mounted sight, as I've never used them before. Any input appreciated. BTW, any input on front sight type (bead vs XS blade) as well?
Thanks,
Jed

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2006, 05:26:26 PM »

My vote is for the Williams Foolproof. If you want a "ghost" sight, just unscrew the aperture. If you get a fine aperture also it makes for easy sight-in. My feelings about SX is that they are pretty pricey for what you get. I personally like a blade front sight, have never tried the XS. I have used the "sourdough" patridge front and Williams rear for 40+ years with good results.

The tang sights are nice for long range shooting, but get in the way for carrying by the pistol grip, IMO. However, they do look nice and old-timey. From what I have read you are much better off with a Marble's rather than a Lyman.

-WH-

dawgvet · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2006, 05:15:20 AM »

Thanks for the reply. Anyone else with any thoughts?
Jed

levi joseph · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:15:50 AM »

I have 2 lever guns with the xs sights on them and cant say a bad thing about them. I have taken several deer with them over the last few years . I also hunt thick woods and mature pine plantations.I think they are as good as a sight for a fast handling rifle that there is.

Levi

K.K. · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2006, 02:04:06 PM »

I use the XS sight on my .450 Guide Gun. I'm getting used to the blade, but would prefer a bead front sight. It is very quick on fast moving game, like whitetails in the Adirondacks that we hunt. The tang or aperature sight is designed for more precise shooting. It would probably take my eye out on the .450 though. Be careful of length of stock and caliber, and what the rifle will be used for, and either is a nice sight.

Bitterroot Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2006, 01:42:39 PM »

While I haven't tried the XS, I like the way it looks on the gun. My favorite setup is a Williams FP on a Marlin 1894CL .32-20. The standard bead sight works quite well with the peep sight.
The trouble with using the Williams is that Marlin doesn't drill and tap for receiver sights anymore! Check your Winchester.
I have a Lyman #2 mounted on a Model 94 38-55 rifle. It seemed like the proper thing to do. There is no windage adjustment, so it will have to be shimmed. I ran out of front sight dovetail. It is great for fine work, but I don't think I'd like it in the brush.
I hope the Williams will fit your rifle.

Bitterroot Bob

Castaway · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:08:05 AM »

I'm a fan of the Marble tang. Has windage adjustments unlike the Lyman #2. Also, the Lyman wobbles sideways while the Marble is solid. Tried a Fire Sight but gave it away. Could see a whitened fron sight better in dim light.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:36:20 AM »

I believ Williams has modified the Foolproof to use the screw holes for scope mounts. Is the 1894 drilled & tapped for scope mounts? Never have seen one, always had the 336 myself.

-WH-

358Win · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2006, 03:48:47 PM »

Hi All:

I got a new Lighting BLR in 358 Win, last year. The first thing I did was put a Wiilliams BAR/BLR peep on the back. This is a very nice rear peep. It is a set it and leave it setup. I wish it came with easy click adjustments, but it doesn't. So you get it where you want it and lock it down. I've given some thought to putting a Merit adjustable aperture in the main hole so that the diameter of the aperture is instantly adjustable to the lighting conditions.

I then put on a 0.312 Williams Fireshight on the front. That turned out to be to short. I switched up to the 0.375 Williams Fireshight on the front. Still too short. So I guess I'll have to try the 0.406.

Although I very much tempted to put a scope on this gun. Something I've never done with a Lever Action. A peep was perfect on my 45-70 and my 44 Magnum. But both of those are fairly short range guns.

Having had a little experience with the 35 Remington, I thought that the 358 Winchester would be just a bit longer range and that the peep would be a fine setup. Then when I got the 358 Winchester and started experimenting with it. I found much to my delight and surprise that the 358 Winchdester had a lot more in common with the 35 Whelen and 350 Remington Magnum than it did with 35 Remingtion.

The following is from an earlier post I made:

The 35 Rem is a wonderful cartridge but isn't very close to the 358 Win in ballistics. The best the 35 Rem can do is about 2000 fps with a 220 grain flat point with a B.C. of about 0.267. The muzzle energy is 1954 ft-lbs. Sighted 3 inches high at 100 yards would be down 4 inches at 200 yards and 25 inches down at 300 yards.

The 358 Win BLR uses a box magazine allowing spitzer bullets to be used. The 250 grain Nosler has a B.C. of 0.446 and can be driven at 2,400 fps. This generates 3,197 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. When sighted 3 inches high at 100 yards, this is still up 0.3 inches at 200 yards, and only 10.3 inches low at 300 yards.

The perfection of the 358 Win really stands out when we do the same comparison for the ballistic twins the 35 Whelen and 350 Rem Mag. The 358 Win will get its 2,400 fps with 48.0 grains of AA2520. while the 35 Whelen/350 Rem Mag burn 56.5 grains of AA2520 to get 2,500 fps. So the extra 8.5 grains of powder with its attendant recoil and muzzle blast brings the muzzle energy up to 3,469 ft-lbs. Sighted 3 inches high at 100 yards, the bullet is up 0.9 inches at 200 yards and down 8.5 inches at 300 yards.

Thus the 358 Win has 63.6% more muzzle energy than the 35 Rem and drops 15 inches less at 300 yards.

Also the 358 Win has -7.8% less muzzle energy than the 35 Whelen/350 Rem Mag and only 1.8 inches more drop at 300 yards. And it does all of that while using -15.0% less powder.

All that being said. Any body got some good ideas for a scope for this gun. I've been giving some thought to either an intermediate eye relief Scout scope. But really haven't seen a really good way to mount this type of scope on this rifle. Another idea that strikes my fancy is something with about 5 inches of eye relief and a magnification range of 1.5 to 5 X or a 2 to 6 variable. Any ideas would be most appreciated.

Have a Great Week,
358 Win.