Author Topic: First Post Here - Getting an Encore (Read 977 times)

WingMaster · « **on:** January 28, 2006, 11:06:46 AM »

I'll be picking up a new Encore 209X50 in about a week or so. I decided on a Blued with the Walnut stock - call me old fashioned, but I think rifles (even in-line MLs) look best with blued steel and wood stocks.

At any rate, I plan to hunt Minnesota whitetails next December with it. I typically hunt wooded areas where a 50-75 yard shot is about the max you need to plan for.

My plan at the moment is to put a Williams peep sight on it. I always shot my Grandpas old 30-30 with a peep better than standard irons.

I've been lurking here for a bit and have come up woth some tentative load ideas. I think I'll try Triple 7 pellets first, 100 grains, along with Power Belts. Not sure what weight as of yet. Advice here is much appreciated. I gather from reading from some of the guys experiences that accuracy with Power Belts in Encores can be hit or miss? I think I won't lock in on that til I find what works really well.

Hmm. What else? I live about 10 minutes from a Cabelas so that should help - or hurt. I can get into trouble there.

Thanks for any advice and/or pointers you may have.

Dave

Encore28 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2006, 05:09:25 PM »

Wingmaster
You made the right choice of muzzleloaders by far!!!!!!!!!!
I love my 209x50................
I shoot two 50gr 777 pellets under a T/C 250gr Shockwave and get MOA. I have tried the powerbelts and they load easier (not that the shockwaves are difficult to load) but did not group as well.
Do yourself a favor and shoot the Remington Kleanbore primers-They make a difference!!!!
If you have any other questions feel free to ask me--------I love talking smokepoles!!!!!!!
Good luck and welcome to muzzleloading!!!!!!
Encore28

slave · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:50:23 AM »

Wingmaster,
My Encore must be like Encore28's

It loves 250gr & 300gr Shockwaves or Hornaday SST's. It will shot both of these with 100gr pellets. I have never shot an Encore that did not like the 250gr shockwave.

In the Barnes line I found the 300gr MZ & the new .451 275gr XPB bullet shot great. The 245 spitfire and 250 tmz both shot good and have found the 200gr xpb bullet will shot ok with lighter powder charges.

I no longer use pellets and try to stay with combinations that will group when loaded at 120gr 7 fffg levels. I have found if I can get a bullet to group under 2" at 100yds with a 120gr powder charge I want to spend some time with it. If my Encore sprays them at the higher powder levels I give the rest of the bullets away and move on.

The powerbelts 223gr and 245 have been the worst bullets I have shot. All of the XTP bullets I have shot would group better than them with any sabot at a fraction of the cost. The 295 powerbelt would give me a 3" to 4" group. With all of the options out I just gave up on the powerbelt. Would like to shot them because they load so easy but the gun just dose not like them.

Please keep in mind all of the .451 pistol bullets. You can purchase them in bulk and the sabots in bulk rather than purchasing a ML combination pack. To date I have found the MMP HP/12 & HP/24 sabots work the best. I always have both on hand. One works better on <.451 and the other works better on >.451 bullets.

The barnes 275gr XPB bullet has replaced the 250 shockwave as my first choice. The 275gr xpb bullet with the HP/12 and 115gr of seven fffg seems to be my guns pet load. I wish SW would have brought out the 460 mag ten years ago. I hope Hornaday will offer the 200 and 275gr sst for reloading bullets soon. I want to try them. I think more bullets for the sw 460 mag will come out in the next few years. Should add more options and reduce cost.

poncaguy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:07:44 AM »

Encore and Omega are great BP rifles. I use 120 grains of AP FFG and 348 Powerbelts, and reload in the field with 3 777 pellets and 348 Powerbelt. Both shoot to same point of aim at 100 yards in my Omega and Encore.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2006, 11:10:18 AM »

Great choice of M/L. Try the 295 gr. power belts over 100 gr. of triple7. I had great success with that load. I have recently switched to 195 gr. PR duplex and 90 gr. of loose triple7 and get great accuracy out to 150 yards.

Also Welcome.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2006, 02:14:53 PM »

Welcome to GB Outdoors...Stick around and share your experience shooting that Encore.

That's a great gun...Congrats.

WingMaster · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2006, 03:31:03 PM »

Thanks guys. I'll let you know how everything goes once I have her in hand and hit the range.

Has anyone else tried the Williams peep sight on their Encore MLs? Scopes are not legal in Minnesota during the ML season.

Hmm. I had been debating the 250/300 gr Shockwaves too. I may try those as well and see which shoots better.

What else do I need? I like accumulating gear and will probably have more than I truly need in no time, but what do I really need to get started? I saw a special loading jag in my Cabelas for loading Shockwaves - necessary if I use those or just nice?

slave · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:39:33 PM »

Wingmaster,
Can not help on the peep. I have a Nikon mounted my Encore ml. Nor have I used any williams products. It looks like some of them are well made. I have an M1A and a AR with factory peeps. Back when I could see I loved them.

I do use a loading jag designed for the bullet or I make one for the poly-tip bullets. They do help prevent damage to the tip in the loading process. Barnes, T/C and PR all offer a loading jag for there products.
I have also found that a rotating jag helps. If I am at my bench I will use a range rod to load with. It has a bushing that allows the jag to rotate free. This allows the sabot to rotate with the groves preventing me from forcing the sabot to skip down over them. My groups are often better when I use the range rod over the rifles ram rod.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2006, 02:28:31 PM »

WingMaster, welcome to GB's and congrats on a fine rifle. Go with the William's peep. You won't regret it. The only thing that would be better would be optics - of course, that's not an option for you.

As for the projectile, you've gotten some great advice. Well, outside of shooting PBs. I know, that should open a can of worms. A lot of guys have killed a lot of game with them. It's just that a connicle is a step back. There are SO many bullets out there that are SO much better.

If you can use a sabot legally, there's no reason to use a PB. Consider a Partition Gold, Swift A-Frame, Barnes Bullet, Shock Wave, or even an all lead spitzer style boat tail bullet like the Buffallo Bullets.

In the end, shot placement is key. So shoot what groups the best for you. But I find it hard to believe that a bullet of MUCH better construction won't group for you.

As for propellents, 777 is a good place to start. My only advice would be to consider loose powder over the pellets. In my experience, the pellets draw more moisture and are more subject to missfire than the loose powder. The loose powder also affords you the ability to work up a load a bit.

Of course, you'll find opinions about everything. You know what they say about opinions. You really can't take my word for it or anyone else's. There's no substitute for experience. We all have to learn the hard way.

Enjoy your new rifle.

harvester · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2006, 07:18:14 AM »

i wouldn't shoot powerbelts if someone paid me to. too many friends that have had terrible, terrible performance with the bullets, and then poor accuracy as well. when i would show them my groups with Buffalo Bullets SSB's, they'd be amazed. they thought 4 and 5" groups were the norm for muzzleloaders.

my suspicions were confirmed with this month's shooting times magazine. they tested about a dozen muzzleloading bullets, which included a couple of powerbelts. the PB's came in last in every category, from accuracy, to weight retention, to penetration.

they tested with a TC Omega.

WingMaster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2006, 03:35:25 PM »

Well then... Shockwaves it is.

poncaguy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2006, 03:45:50 PM »

Well 2 does and one buck dropped in their track with Powerbelts out of my Omega, 25, 100, and 125 yards this season.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2006, 04:43:51 PM »

Nobody is saying they're ineffective, just that there are better choices - provided sabots are legal for use with MLers in your state.

When conditions are less than ideal - raking shots, shoulders, heavy bone - I tend to err on the side of caution. The article that Harvester referenced is a good one. PBs scored dead last in expansion, penetration, and weight retention.

I like a bullet that expands and penetrates deep - creating a large wound channel and severe tissue damage and shock along the way.

Of course, shot placement is paramount. Without it, nothing else matters. Accuracy reigns supreme.

riddleofsteel · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2006, 05:21:09 PM »

I have killed quite a few with the .429 200 grain Hornady XTP hollow point or the .429 200 grain Nosler SJHP in the old style T/C breakaway sabot with the felt washer on the end out of a .50 T/C Renegade. I have a huge bag of this discontinued sabot but the MMP all plastic sabots work just as well. My usual load is 90 grains of loose Pyrodex or FFG black when I can get it. MOA groups out to 100 yards are common.
I tired the Powerbelts and I get excllent accuracy with them. I have never killed a deer with one so I can't comment on that part.
XTP pistol bullets are hard to beat for large game at ML velocities. They have it all, penetration, weight retention, and controlled expansion. The load I will be using this year is a .452 Hornady XTP HP in the MMP short black sabot over 45 grains of AA4744 smokeless powder fired by a Win 209 primer. This load shoots sub MOA out of my Savage 10 ML and pushes the 300 grain XTP to just shy of 2100 FPS.

harvester · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2006, 04:08:12 AM »

Quote from: poncaguy

Well 2 does and one buck dropped in their track with Powerbelts out of my Omega, 25, 100, and 125 yards this season.

two does and one buck does not constitute sufficient evidence that powerbelts perform.

maybe you're an excellent shot. maybe you choose shots wisely, and wait for broadside standing shots, and avoid any quartering shots. i don't know. i have no reason to doubt that you're an excellent hunter and shooter.

however.

i frequent a lot of message boards. i read a lot of articles. and unfortunately, i have friends that still use them. they certainly will kill deer, as most projectiles will. but when addressing bullet performance - that is, terminal ballistics - they do not perform anywhere close to the other brands that have been listed on this thread. it might never matter to you. however, i like every advantage i can get, even if i never use that advantage.

i'm sorry to be so blunt. and i'm certainly not questioning anyone's knowledge. however, the data on these bullets is not good, not good at all.

i agree with nimrod, the conical design is a step back in ballistic technology. that's well documented in more than one of my reloading manuals, so its not just my opinion.

buffalo bullets SSB's, barnes expanders, hornady xtp's, hornady sst's - they are all great bullets that provide great accuracy and construction. i've yet to test the nosler partitions and the swift a-frames, but both of those bullets are time tested and well respected in the center fire world. extremely tough bullets.

WingMaster · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2006, 04:07:34 PM »

This is what I was hoping for. Documented peformence tests.

I need to get my hands on that review of the different ML bullets in Shooting Times and really digest it. I'm going to hold off for the moment on making a decision but if Powerbelts fared that poorly, why take the chance and waste the time if there are better options available to me.

I'm all about using the best equipment that I can and becoming as familiar and proficient with it as possible in order to make a humane shot and clean kill.

slave · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2006, 06:45:13 PM »

Wingmaster,

Lot of good advise in the thread. Go out spend some money and let the new Encore have its say.

I know you will find a quality bullet it likes.

WingMaster · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2006, 04:24:31 PM »

I picked it up today and she's a beauty. Really nice wood on it. I've been reading the manual tonight and going through my Cabelas catalog, making a list.

I talked to a few more muzzle loader hunters the past few days and have decided to start with 250 ShockWaves over two Triple 7 pellets. I'll see how that setup works and just go from there...

Thanks to all for the advice and I'll let you all know how she shoots - and when I get a deer this fall with her.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2006, 05:39:05 PM »

Sounds like you're well on your way. Enjoy your new rifle.

It is so nice to see a guy who gets his new rifle just after deer season. That says a lot about you. My pet peeve is the guy (and there are a lot of them) who gets his new rifle the month before season opens.

Take your time, shoot a lot and see what she likes.

Les Staley · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2006, 01:09:28 PM »

First of all, congrats on your new Encore!! you're gonna love it.. I, too have had good success with TC 250gr shockwaves.. took two antlerless deer with them about 20 minutes apart in Dec. between my two shots, my little brother shot a "big deer" about a half mile south of my blind.. He didn't track it out right then, but instead came over to help me.. we found both my deer, and took them to the house,, came back later that evening with flashlights, and tracked out a nice eight point buck.. he had shot it with a Power belt 295 , front shoulder and angeling back into the lungs at about 25 yds.. that bullet literaly exploded, and we found nothing of it, only small lead fragments.. I would call that a failure of that bullet, as it should have exited at 25 yds.. I would sure hesitate to use them on anything bigger than deer... HTH...Les