Hand Loading 45-70 and 38-55

[gcpatch]

I am new to this forum.  Just started reloading and bought a Classic Lee Hand Loader in 45-70.  I also bought a Lee Hand Press for 38-55 later, as they didn't have the Classic Hand Loader in 38-55.  Haven't started loading 38-55, but have the 45-70.  I am having a terrible time seating the bullets in the 45-70.  Last night I hand loaded 15 rounds, and in the process ruined 7 cases.  When I would try to seat the bullet (a 250 gr. Barnes X bullet), it would bend the sides of the casing.  I have lubed, but is no apparent benefit.  My 38-55 cast bullets should be in this next week, which are .379 in diameter.  I know I have read on this forum previously wherein others were reloading the 45-70 and .379 diameter 38-55's.  Is anyone else having this problem?  Can someone tell me what I need to do to solve the problem?  Incidentally, I am using new unfired cases, and my 45-70 is the H&R Buffalo Classic and the 38-55 is the sister Target Model.  Thanks,

[JLW]

are you expanding the case mouth, they must be expanded like a pistol case. I also own a Buffalo Classic 45-70 mine it very accurate with my reloads. just my 2cent,  JIM

[gcpatch]

No, I'm not expanding the case mouth.  I'm just using the sizing die that came with the Hand Loader where you drive the case into the die that I guess sizes the mouth and top of the case.

[stuffit]

gcpatch,
When I got my BC .45 70  I also bought my first set of lee dies (a three die set).  Now I've been reloading for more years than I like to admit but these were my first Lee dies.  Bottom line is that the neck expander that comes with the dies is inadequate, particularly if you are loading the slightly overbore sized cast bullets that usually give the best accuracy in this rifle.   I emailed/called Lee and they acted like they didn't understand. I sent them pictures:

and after several phone conversations, they sent me a replacement standard type "neck expander" that had exactly the same inadequate dimension at maximum adjustment as the first one did.   Finally an engineer type suggested I get the Lee Universal neck expander, not expensive and a very useful little device that I'm glad I have now, though I remain a little miffed about  the whole encounter.  Here's one with its innards out showing what makes it so versatile:

You're going to need one of these sooner  or later if you reload, particularly if you ever use any cast bullets so you may as well go ahead an buy one.  Here are the directions that go with it (bigger file for readability so a link) :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/PhilHarris/LUNEXTxt.jpg

Back to your crushed cases with the Barnes bullets, your standard neck expander should open uo the necks enough  for these bullets to seat easily if they are .457 - .458 so a couple of possibilities:  1) you aren't adjusting the neck expander to its max potential (tricky if you're going for max because a slight over run can also crush a case), or you neck expander is even more undersized then usual. I'd call Lee first, but you're going to need the Universal neck expander die anyway.  Might as well go ahead and get one and then the problem will be gone for sure.
 :wink:
stuffit

[stuffit]

My apologies for all that response that doesn't apply to the reloading set you are using.  If you have the hand held press tool, you can use the standard Lee die sets.  As for how to expand the necks with the old type Lee Hand tool, I only have my old 12 Ga shotgun shell set and went to reloading presses after that.  I checked on Lees site and can't find a description of a neck expander in the parts list of the 45 70 hand tool that you have.   Do the instructions mention neck expansion at all?
s.

[gcpatch]

Thanks for the tips, guys.  I am going to call and check into the expander dies.  I felt this had to be something that someone on here had run into and am glad now that I asked.

[gcpatch]

stuffit,
     There's no neck expander die or anything else that I can find that expands the neck in the hand loader.  I have ordered a Lyman Chamfer and Extra Large Deburring Tool in an effort to make it easier to go in.  My whole thought on this was to start with the hand loader, see how I liked it, and then go to a regular press if I liked it.  I also have hunting rifles in 7mm-08, .270, .30-06, and the .38-55 Target Rifle.  I also own a number of .45 ACP's that I like to shoot a lot, so am thinking of a Dillon 550 down the road.  Down the road might be sooner if I need to get into tools that can't be used with the hand loader.

[stuffit]

The right size ball bearing and a very judiciously applied mallet tap, or  a center punch that can be inserted inside the empty brass ever so slightly might serve as temporary make-do.  You only need a few thousanths of an inch to get the bullet started off and once it's started, you're pretty much home free if you haven't over expanded the necks.  
s.

[John Traveler1]

Strange that your .45-70 Lee Classic Loader doesn't come with a neck flaring tool (mine doesn't either).  Some of the pistol calibers (.38spl/.357, .44 spl/.44 mag, .45 Colt, etc) do come with one.

It's easy to make one using an old bolt and a drill press or drill motor.  Just spin it and file a taper plug on the head end.  Even easier if you have access to a machine lathe.  The dimensions are not critical:  just make the flaring end big enough to easily start a bullet base.  Polish smooth with emery cloth, and you are all set!

John

[stuffit]

Now there's a plan! Gotta work just fine.  Good input JT!
s.

[Ed Hill]

Lee makes an expander for the hand tool, but don't list it anywhere, you have to call and ask. It's small and bullet shaped you insert in the case neck and give it a tap. Cost is $3 or $4, and seems to do a good job for cast bullets.
Ed